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Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011
Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:
--CactusBot (talk) 10:13, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Removal of Reviews section as per: Template:Infobox_album#Professional_reviews
| Reviews =
- Allmusic
link - The Austin Chronicle
link - Entertainment Weekly (B+) link
- Kerrang! 05/09/1998
- Robert Christgau (A-) link
- Rolling Stone link
- Spin (8/10) 06/01/1995
I will use these in the critical recpetion section at some point soon - I am in the middle of a massive rework of the Version 2.0 article. --Breakinguptheguy (talk) 20:29, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
not a sentence
At the beginning of the Promotion section, it sez: "The entire visual campaign for Version 2.0 was tailored to play off the album cover artwork, the icons designed to represent each single release, provided point-of-sale and the band's videogenic sensibility." This is not a sentence, and I couldn`t make enuf sense of it to turn it into one. Fp cassini (talk) 17:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
Dan56's recent edits
Dan56, as I stated in the edit summary to the revert, you were removing multiple reviews added in prose from the album ratings box and while I'm augmenting/improving the article (which is disruptive at best); moreover, contrary to your arbitrary objection to quotes here, per the guideline WP:QUOTEFARM (as you cited), the quotes used are not long, comprise of "smaller portions of quotation", are "provided an appropriate context", they do not remotely "dominate the article" and much paraphrase is already used; "Provided each use of a quotation within an article is legitimate and justified there is no need for an arbitrary limit". --Lapadite (talk) 13:21, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Regarding About.com's reliability, there is a table of About critics linked in the very section you cited. The writer sourced in the article is considered reliable. --Lapadite (talk) 13:30, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
RfC: Is this revision an improvement to the article?
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It is my contention that this revision by Lapadite77 does not improve the article, for the reasons I've outlined below in my comments. This is the current version of the section in question, after I tried to condense what was added accordingly. Dan56 (talk) 13:41, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- Votes
- Oppose this addition/revision. Dan56 (talk) 13:41, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- Support per first bolded comment below. --Lapadite (talk) 13:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- Comments
I feel it overloads the section with quotations used without pertinence, with regurgitated praise from any reviewer available. Lapadite77 did not even paraphrase these overlong quotes or fragments from the source, which present nothing new or unique from what had previously been in the section and amounts to redundant guff. Using too many quotes is incompatible with encyclopedic writing. (WP:QUOTEFARM) A criticism or reception section is not meant to be a complete list of all praise or criticism, but rather to provide readers with a representative sample of how this album has been received. (WP:NIF#Red flags) Furthermore, whatever paraphrasing was done in this revision is poor and non-neutral, particularly the paragraph given to the Baltimore Sun reviewer, at least half of which comprises quoted material, as does the four-sentence quotation from a review by About.com. The section should be readable and representative of the unique points made about this album, not comprehensive and bludgeoning readers with the same thing being said in a different way. Erroneous also was moving a paragraph on the album's rankings in critics' polls out of the "accolades" section. Dan56 (talk) 13:41, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I will repost my comment from the above section regarding Dan56's edit:
Dan56, as I stated in the edit summary to the revert, you were removing multiple reviews added in prose from the album ratings box and while I'm augmenting/improving the article (which is disruptive at best); moreover, contrary to your arbitrary objection to quotes here, per the guideline WP:QUOTEFARM (as you cited), the quotes used are not long, comprise of "smaller portions of quotation", are "provided an appropriate context", they do not remotely "dominate the article" and much paraphrase is already used; "Provided each use of a quotation within an article is legitimate and justified there is no need for an arbitrary limit". Regarding About.com's reliability, there is a table of About critics linked in the very section you cited. The writer sourced in the article is considered reliable.
(bolding the following as Dan56 put forth a misleading "revision" in the RfC which is not actually the revision in question, this version of the article is - improvements Dan56 does not want - vs Dan's version (excising reviews)): I had already restored the erroneous removal of an equal Rolling Stone rating in the album ratings box, so why bring it up? Clearly not relevant to the issue raised. The section is perfectly readable and representable, not repetitive, not remotely POV-hindered; all but two reviews used are directly from those cited on the album ratings box. Newsweek's was already there, a reliable source, and the About.com writer sourced is reliable per Misplaced Pages as noted above. However I do find suspect your insistence on removing these reviews (which are positive in nature, but represented fairly) with claims of POV, particularly given your prior edits here seemingly pushing certain reviews that contained particular genres (e.g., ) + this claim of retrospective reviews not being valid here when you added one yourself. Regarding the article's subject, It should also be noted that this is evidently a major, famous album with plenty of media coverage, major publication reviews, and accolades, and it should not remotely be subjected to a diminutive reception section, especially if this were to be considered for a GA or FA status in the future. The implication that there are too many reviews is just ridiculous. --Lapadite (talk) 13:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- Follow up comment: an RfC is going on and Dan56 is continuing to make edits on this matter without waiting for at least a partial consensus or middle ground to be reached; against WP:BRD, as pointed out in edit summary --Lapadite (talk) 14:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- The burden is on you to achieve a consensus to support your change, @Lapadite77:. Your bold edit was reverted, not mine (WP:BRD). I originally restored it to the original version, which had been in the article for months. Dan56 (talk) 14:07, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)2nd Follow up comment: Dan56 reverted such edit ^. Dan56, discussion is just starting, do not make further edits until an understanding is reached here (per WP:BRD) when multiple editors weigh in; make use of the talk page and do not edit war. Let's wait other editors' input. You did not just restore it, you made 3 edits after RfC was created. --Lapadite (talk) 14:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I don't see Lapadite's revision as problematic per se. I'm unaware of a strict limit to the size of reception sections, and WP:QUOTEFARM is kind of vague, so if Dan56 feels it is too long, he can make it shorter by cutting excesses. He could even take out a couple of reviews if they make the section too repetitive, but simply removing everything Lapadite added seems drastic. Victão Lopes 16:03, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
- I am not at all opposed to trimming certain quotes, making it more succinct and paraphrasing further - it's what I'd been focusing on as I started to improve this article, which needs serious improvement, before Dan 56 began removing my edits - while still --Lapadite (talk) 16:16, 31 January 2015 (UTC)retaining what is conveyed by the reviewers (all). As detailed above, what Dan56 has done however is remove the reviews I added in the prose (which were were from the album ratings box, that he himself augmented time ago). He apparently only wants to keep certain reviews, the ones he added, and which curiously contain particular genres he immediately used for the infobox, which is part of the reason why I suspect these recent edits and his inappropriate claim of POV. --Lapadite (talk) 16:16, 31 January 2015 (UTC)