Talk:Khalji dynasty - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Saladin1987 (talk | contribs) at 16:54, 15 March 2015 (→Pashtun influence on the Turkic Khilji). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 16:54, 15 March 2015 by Saladin1987 (talk | contribs) (→Pashtun influence on the Turkic Khilji)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Pakistan Low‑importance

	Pakistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pakistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pakistan on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PakistanWikipedia:WikiProject PakistanTemplate:WikiProject PakistanPakistan
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Bengal (defunct)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bengal, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.BengalWikipedia:WikiProject BengalTemplate:WikiProject BengalBengal

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

India: Delhi / History Low‑importance

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Delhi (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Indian history workgroup (assessed as Low-importance).

Former countries (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesFormer countries

Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Miniapolis, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on March 31, 2012.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors

Untitled

This article is absolutely baseless.

WP:INDIA Banner/Delhi Addition

Note: {{WP India}} Project Banner with Delhi workgroup parameters was added to this article talk page because the article falls under Category:Delhi or its subcategories. Should you feel this addition is inappropriate , please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag 15:42, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Mongol invasion

According to , Mongols invaded Singh and Punjab in 1296-1297, being defeated by two Khilji generals. Later another Mongol army invaded in 1298 and captured Siwistan. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

STOPIT!

I have corrected it many times, but seems someone with nationalistic ideas are deleting the mentioning of (Afghan) and only leave the turkic, whilst its comletely against wiki rules, they were treated as Afghans and always thought as afghans. infact afghan suris and lodhis were also khilji called ( ghilji or ghilzai) in afghanitsan. removing the afghan name from a dynesty which were precieved as afghans is totally unacceptable, dont remove, if u hve somthing discuss it here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.211.3.220 (talk) 21:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I have seen no published sources to support your opinion. Unsourced information can and will be removed. --Defensor Ursa 02:48, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

The (source) was there before you deleted it. any way the whole article says that they treeted others like afghans and treated in courts like afghans , britanica which is cite is enough to prove my point. refert it back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.211.3.220 (talk) 04:10, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

No. You added, http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9045252/Khalji-Dynasty, here;, then you removed it here;. Britannica states, "Khaljī dynasty, (1290–1320), the second ruling family of the Muslim sultanate of Delhi. This dynasty, like the previous Slave dynasty, was of Turkish origin, though the Khaljī tribe had long been settled in Afghanistan.

I see nothing that states Turko-Afghan. --Defensor Ursa 05:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes but the Ghilzai are known as Pathans or Afghans. The wikipedia article on them itself, which is well sourced says that. Also, they do not maintain cultural ties with Turkey. Many north indian tribes can be called indo-iranian. Would you list all north indians as persians? No, that's ludicrious dynasties and cultures change and the information should reflect that. This was an Afghan dynasty and the only reason people insist on hiding that today is due to the war. They want to make Afghans think they have only been the victims and destroy their society. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.141.204.116 (talk) 16:12, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Pashtun influence on the Turkic Khilji

The sources in the article seem to agree that the Khilji had been Pashtunized (or "had adopted some Afghan habits and customs") during their settlements in present-day Qalat, Zabul Province, Ghazni, etc before arriving in India. They confirm the Khilji were not just normal or pure Turks. I think we should be careful in wording to reflect the influence of the Pashtuns on the Khilji better in the article in light of these sources. Khestwol (talk) 16:56, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

In some sources their origin is mentioned as "Turko-Afghan". "Afghan" in the pre-20th century context is mostly synonym with "Pashtun", so here we can use both words to show the influence on the Khilji. But because of the modern shift in the definition of the word "Afghan" due to the political situation (now "Afghan" is used almost exclusively for a citizen of the multiethnic Afghanistan, and not for the Pashtun ethnic group), I think, in modern times, it is better to use the wording "Pashtunized Turk" to express their origin. Khestwol (talk) 17:12, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Do we have any sources that can support Pashtunized Turk? --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:31, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the present sources in the article support such an origin for the Khilji, although they use an older terminology where "Afghan" is used in an ethnic sense for the ethnic Pashtun people. Khestwol (talk) 18:38, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

So "Afghan" is being used for "Pashtun"?

Here are my main concerns;

"The Khilji rulers trace their roots to Central Asia and were of Pashtunized-Turkic origin.~Britannica source~ They had long been settled in present-day Afghanistan before proceeding to Delhi in India."

The Britannica source makes NO mention of Pashtun/Pashtunized or any variation of that word.

"Sometimes they were treated by others as ethnic Afghans due to their adoption of some Afghan habits and customs".~Chaurasia source~ ~Cavendish source~

Neither source states Pashtun, they state either "adopted some Afghan habits and customs" or "brought a new set of customs and culture to Delhi.

"As a result of this, sometimes the dynasty is referred to as a Turko-Afghan." ~Yunus source(unviewable)~ ~Mandal source(appears to be an agricultural specialist?)~ ~Singh source(could find nothing on this author)~

Not sure how Turko-Afghan equates to Pashtun, and I am sure some POV pushing editors will mention that and how all of these sentences could be considered synthesis for "Pashtun".

However, I found The Foreign Policy of Pakistan: Ethnic Impacts on Diplomacy 1971-1994, by Mehtab Ali Shah, page 163, which might state, "between the thirteenth and sixteenth centuries, such as the Khilji, Lodhis and Saur, were Pashtun...". Except it will not show the page.

and "Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Asia and Oceania, ed. Barbara A. West, page 239

Which is all I was able to find. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:53, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

In my opinion "Pashtunized-Turkic" is the neutral and less ambiguous wording, because at the present the term "Afghan" has virtually lost its older meaning of Afghan (ethnonym) which it commonly had until relatively recently to refer to Pashtun tribes. But you might change it if you find something even more neutral and clearer. Khestwol (talk) 04:44, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

brother but source does not mention pashtunized, it could be elaborated but not be called pashtunized as they spoke persian or turkic language. they did not speak pashto or else that would have been mentioned, " "Khalji Dynasty". Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved 2010-08-23. this dynasty, like the previous Slave dynasty, was of Turkic origin, though the Khiljī tribe had long been settled in what is now Afghanistan..." Saladin1987 16:54, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

"Ferocity" and "faithlessness"

"The dynasty is known for their faithlessness and ferocity" -- is this wording encyclopedic and suitable for the lede, or can it be changed? Khestwol (talk) 19:52, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

No doubt, many parts was edited by biased editorAhendra (talk) 22:30, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

It lends nothing historically to the article, so I see no reason to keep it. Besides, I wouldn't base something like that from Encyclopedia Britannica(ie. a tertiary source). --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:43, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Categories: