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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Johnuniq (talk | contribs) at 04:01, 26 March 2015 (→San Francisco Weekly story: RGW). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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This page is not a forum for general discussion about Violet Blue. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Violet Blue at the Reference desk.

This article was nominated for deletion on 23 July 2008. The result of the discussion was KEEP.

Old discussion

I've updated the 'on-line and media presence' section to replace links with citations. Please don't undo work, come here and discuss what needs to be fixed. I'll be trying to update this page a bit too. Thanks! Cap020570 (talk) 17:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

protection status

I see the page is protected. I hope you don't think I was trying to vandalize it. I was just adding/fixing links and I eventually want to redo this profile to include, not only her sex-positive work but her long media (investigative reporting) work. It's irritating that this is the 4th woman's profile I've come across that been targeted for vandalism.Cap020570 (talk) 11:34, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm proud to say I'm a member of the Gendergap folks trying to address our gender-related issues here. That said: "Violet Blue" is a person who has been involved in a number of controversies and lawsuits; such people attract a larger than random number of vandals, NPOV violators, and persons who want to include information that others feel should be excluded. This need not be gender-linked; in other words, it may be about her and not her gender. --Orange Mike | Talk 18:38, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I only knew her from the tiny nibbles blog and don't even follow that very well, oh and twitter. I only got involved when she tweeted about the profile page. I had no idea she did so much tech reporting. I'd really like to just redo the whole page, like I said. :) Cap020570 (talk) 23:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Does Gawker count as a reliable source? (Redacted) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.172.3.235 (talk) 18:51, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

No it doesn't. It simply notes that someone makes that claim. As you would know from looking at the rest of this talk page, this has been raised several times before. it cannot be included in the article without a reliable secondary source, and to date no such sources have been provided. -- Euryalus (talk) 19:13, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Related discussion

(moved from my talk page)

Hi, I am hoping you can help me with improving the Violet Blue page. Her birth name is (Redacted), and their are multiple sources online confirming this. Unfortunately, it appears that due to wiki's rules, none of these sources qualify as a "reliable source". So my question is this: in simple terms, what is required to include Violet Blue's birth name as part of her entry? Could you possibly give me an example? I am new to editing on wikipedia and would like to do this correctly.

Mark — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.172.3.235 (talk) 19:35, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

It's been repeatedly pointed out on this talk page that we cannot reference material in biographies of living persons via primary sources. Quoting WP:BLPPRIMARY:

Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. Do not use public records that include personal details, such as date of birth, home value, traffic citations, vehicle registrations, and home or business addresses.

This disqualifies all of the sources suggested in these talkpage discussions so far, except the Gawker article which a) may not be reliable and b) does not in fact confirm another name.

An example of a reliable secondary source is, say, the New York Times. If the Times reports something (as news, not opinion), we can reasonably expect they've done so after thoroughly checking the facts. We might then include those facts in the article and reference them to the Times. What we can't do is construct our own facts via primary documents, vague mentions on internet sites and original research. And to quote again from BLPPRIMARY:

Where primary-source material has been discussed by a reliable secondary source, it may be acceptable to rely on it to augment the secondary source, subject to the restrictions of this policy, no original research, and the other sourcing policies.

Hope this is helpful. In passing the regular attempts to incorporate alternative names into this article are a little disruptive. Please stop doing this unless there are genuinely reliable sources upon which to base the edits. -- Euryalus (talk) 06:29, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Article Issues - How is she notable and what has she accomplished besides being controversial?

The article's narrative seems to be "here are her controversies" without establishing her notability or timeline of accomplishments. If I hadn't found a Forbes article that stated she was actually a high-profile online figure, I would have been tempted to challenge her notability. I'm not tag-crazy, but can we work together to clean this article up? EBY (talk) 01:24, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Names without real reliable sources

Misplaced Pages is not the place to speculate about someone's birth name, and until and unless a truly reliable source appears discussing such matters, it is not suitable for discussion here. Please do not mention such names here without real sourcing, such mentions will have to be oversighted. Courcelles 20:27, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Someone has started a RS/N thread regarding this BLP subject Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Adult_Video_News here. __ E L A Q U E A T E 04:42, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

San Francisco Weekly story

@Johnuniq: I revised my original edit regarding the SF Weekly story. I hope this is acceptable. Just an FYI, I cleared this with the BLP noticeboard before making the edit. If I need to make additional changes please let me know. Thank you. Marcos12 (talk) 02:16, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

You mean WP:RSN#San Francisco Weekly, not WP:BLPN. For one clue about the acceptability, please look at the article history where you will see that your edit at 21:31, 25 March 2015 has been removed (see the logs). Editors strongly resist the accumulation of gunk, particularly on articles about living people. If someone managed to harass a person on the internet without legal repercussions, that's great for them. However, we don't repeat their claims in an article unless there is a really good encyclopedic reason. Johnuniq (talk) 02:31, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Now I am really confused. My edit was so egregious as to be redacted? It was reported in a reliable source. I guess I am confused as to what I've done wrong. Blue's harassment of Burch and Alter would seem to be notable in this instance, especially since the harassment is against wikipedia editors. My edits were done in good faith - if they are against policy I'll accept that, but I'd like to know what policy I am violating. Thank you for your civility though, as a new(ish) editor, it is very much appreciated. Marcos12 (talk) 02:44, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

Bear in mind that I know very little about the topic of this article—stuff somehow migrates from noticeboards onto my watchlist—so I cannot comment about whether or not your edit needed to be revision deleted (@Bilby: you might like to check the current content of the article, which still includes the claim about a person's name that I think you previously removed). However, the general principle is very easy to understand. There are two issues: (a) news reports make a splash for a couple of days, then fade to nothing, while a Misplaced Pages article is forever at the top of searches; and, (b) people make many accusations every day, while very few of those accusations are suitable for a permanent record in an encyclopedia. Suppose a news report says "person X said person Y is a shop lifter", or "X said Y's real name is John Citizen"—it is a verifiable fact that the claim was made, but why should Misplaced Pages be used to amplify it? The policies are WP:RS (is the source really suitable?), and WP:DUE (does the assertion warrant a permanent record?), and WP:BLP (is it reasonable?).

Why does your comment claim that the subject of this article harassed two people? Johnuniq (talk) 03:05, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

I was simply going by your terminology: "If someone managed to harass a person on the internet without legal repercussions, that's great for them...." If you look at User:BenBurch it tells pretty much the whole story. Blue filed numerous frivolous lawsuits against Ben Burch, and tried to scare him away from wikipedia. All the lawsuits were dismissed, I believe with prejudice. This is apparently standard behavior for Blue, the San Francisco Weekly article supports this claim. My intention was simply to add this to the appropriate section on her bio. But I will read WP:RS as well as WP:DUE,maybe I have gone about this in the wrong way. Marcos12 (talk) 03:37, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

People who campaign to right great wrongs are not welcome at Misplaced Pages. Even if the subject of a BLP were the worst person in the world, people would still not be permitted to drive by and add silly news-of-the-day (from 2008!) to the article. US courts allow people to say really nasty things about each other, but Misplaced Pages is not available to further their campaigns, nor is it our role to work out who is the good-guy, so we can amplify their attacks. Stick to encyclopedic information that is neutral, and do not cherrypick factoids from primary sources. The above commentary about the subject of this BLP should be removed. Johnuniq (talk) 04:01, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

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