Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Afrika paprika (talk | contribs) at 20:55, 28 July 2006. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Please take your nationalist beliefs elsewhere, we don't want you here. GO AWAY! --KOCOBO 05:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

User notice: temporary 3RR block

Regarding reversions made on July 16 2006 (UTC) to Nikola Tesla

You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

Predrag Stojaković

Thank you for experimenting with Misplaced Pages. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.--Downwards 06:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

vandalism

Please refrain from removing content from Misplaced Pages, as you did to Dado Pršo. It is considered vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. --Lowg 16:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Deleting references

Does it make you feel proud? Do you actually believe that by deleting facts you can just make them 'go away' and disappear forever? If you are that much annoyed with Serbs and their contribution to world's science, culture and history, why do you use those same Serbs to present them as something they never were - Croats? Serbs are Serbs, and if you don't like them as they are, stop forging the data about their ethnicity to make them more likable to your preferences, it is impolite. Marechiel 00:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I am not deleting "serbian references whenever possible". The facts are there, my goal however is to make the Tesla article more objective and neutral. It is you and the others who are constantly deleting and editing the fact he was born in Croatia and considered Croatia to be his homeland. User:Afrika Paprika 03:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits are considered vandalism, and if you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you. Lowg 00:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

All my edits are constructive and can easily be confirmed by facts. You cannot bully me into giving into your revisionism. You will get reported if you continue with your vandalism. User:Afrika Paprika 03:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

You have not posted a single cited fact in all of your contributions. In two instances that I'm familar with, you have removed cited statements and references again and again with no explaination on talk, or cited sources for why you are going to remove it. That is vandalism. (example 1: Dado Prso, example 2: Nikola Tesla--Lowg 01:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes I did. Both are undisputable facts. Tesla was born in Croatia and considered Croatia to be his homeland thus it deserves to be mentioned. My edits are seeking to make the article about him more neutral as it is opposed to chauvinist version you are pushing in now. Also Prso is a Croat, those are his own words. --Afrika Paprika 03:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

It is mentioned. You are just removing the mention of his ethnicity, and if you see the talk page on Nikola Tesla article shows what you are doing is vandalism. --Lowg 01:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry but no, I am not "just removing mention of his ethnicity" I am correcting the article. The only thing removed is at the start of the article which is irrelevant since the article explains in detail that he has been born into Serbian family in Croatia and that he took American citizenship. I wonder though what agenda do you have against more liberal and neutral article? It is what you are doing that is vandalism and not only that but trolling and revisionism. Afrika Paprika

Tesla wasn't born in Croatia, but in what was then Austria, and today Croatia, and didn't consider Croatia his homeland, but Yugoslavia.

At his time, and the time he spoke about it, Croatia was but a region in Yugoslavia, populated with both Serbs and Croats, and not a Croatian national state. Tesla isn't Croatian, as Heraclites isn't Turkish, nor Archimedes Italian, nor Josip Jelacic Serbian. His birthplace is in Croatian state, but it wasn't at the time of his birth. He lived to see independent Croatia only once in his life, when he was 85 (in 1941), and then he sided with Yugoslav King Peter II against his alleged "homeland". Tesla's homeland was, by his own words, Yugoslavia and Serbia, and his ethnicity Serbian and Yugoslavian, in the sense of integral Yugoslavism, where Yugoslavs are one people of the same race, language and tradition as Serbs.

Besides, it is more than clearly stated that his bithplace was at the time within Austria, and that today is in Croatia. Is there any dillema left for any reader not to know where Smiljan is? Tesla was born in Austria, on the territory that is today in Croatia. Should we play silly and add other "significant" facts that the area was originally Illyrian or Roman 2,000 years ago, that it belonged to Yugoslavia for more than 70 years, that it was/wasn't part of Serb Krajina in the 1990's, that the village was ethnically Serbian only 60 years ago, while today it isn't? Two dates are important: the time of Tesla's birth, to give the historical context, and present time, for the geographical accuracy. Tesla was born in the Military Frontier region of Austrian Empire, and his birthplace is today situated in Croatia.

Plus, what is so annoyng and frustrating with Serbian-American reference? (See the Discussion on Nikola Tesla page). Tesla was Serbian-American: an American of Serbian ethnic background, like there are Italian-Americans, Greek-Americans, African-Americans etc. He could not possibly be "Croatian-American", because he wasn't an ethnic Croat. And what's the thing with recent editing Serbian-American to Serbian? Are we clear with the subtle distinction in between nationality and ethnicity? Tesla was an American of Serbian ethnic origin, and with his political activities and active cherishing of his Serbian culture, tradition, language and connections, he fully deserves to be called a Serb wherever possible. Finally, it was his wish, for the whole world to know that his deeds are "the deeds of a Serb". Marechiel 14:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry but no. Tesla was born in Croatia which was at that time part of Austrian Empire(Habsburg Monarchy), if we would follow your logic Vuk S. Karadzic was born in Otttoman Empire. Also at the time he spoke it is clear that he meant Croatia. Also your example of Jelacic is wrong since Jelacic was born in Croatia since Petrovardin was part of Croatia since 17th century. Also there is nothing frustrating about Serbian or American references what is frustrating and annyoing is that you are trying to remove and hide the fact the man was born in Croatia, considered Croatia to be his homeland and by that fact is Croatian scientist. The only thing with Serbia(where he was only one or twice) is the fact he considered himself a Serb.

He also considered Yugoslavia his homeland, therefore he should be a Yugoslavian inventor (he wasn't a scientist!). He also considered Serbia, Austria and Hungary his homeland, therefore he should be Serbian/Austrian/Hungarian invenor. But he was neither, he was Serbian-American (do you comprehend what Serbian-American means?).

And Vuk Karadzic was born in what was at the moment Ottoman Empire, in the region that soon afterwards became the state of Serbia. Tesla wasn't born in Croatia, his birthplace became a part of Croatian state when he was 85, before that it was part of Austrian and Yugoslavian state. What's the point in forging the facts and the name of the state? Any independent Croatian state has been nothing but extremely hostile to Serbs, and Tesla wasn't born in such a state, but in a Serbian-Croatian region of multi-national and tollerant Austria. Marechiel 22:22, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I see that you are hopeless. Tesla was born in Croatia, considered it his homeland and thus belongs equally to Croatia as much he belongs to Serbia as an ethnic Serb. As I said you can rant as much as you want facts are there and there to stay and no matter what you say, write or falsify. Also he was both a scientist and inventor. Afrika paprika

Tesla wasn't born in Croatia, and isn't Croatian in any way, especially not in the way of modern Croatian state, which is a national state of Croats, while in Tesla's time, it was but a Serbo-Croat (not Croatian) region in a multi-national Empire. You should rather stop insulting nad take more interest in the man you are trying to present as a Croat - he was a unitarian Yugoslavicist and against any Croatian secession from Yugoslavia, and any perspective that would allow Croatian people to be any different from the Serbs. Plus, he was a supporter of Mihailovic's Chetniks. Presenting Voivod Djujic as Croatian would make more sense: he at least lived in Croatian state... Marechiel 11:09, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Tesla was born in Croatia since more specifcally in the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia which was at that time constitutive part of Habsburg Monarchy with it's own administration and regional parliament which was far more than any other region besies Austria and Hungary had in the Empire. He alone admitted Croatia is his homeland and that he is proud of it. Also I seriously doubt he supported fascists(Chetniks) or anything similar since he was humanist and pacifist. Afrika paprika

He did not "admit it", it was one courteous private message that meant nothing, since in all his public speeches he called Yugoslavia and Serbia his homeland, and denied Croats any right for exclusive state separated from Serbs and Serbia. In fact, much more times he called Austria-Hungary his homeland, than he spoke of Croatia. And he did support King Peter II and Mihailovic's Chetniks who fought fascists (Croats), since both of his Governments (USA and Yugoslavian) did. Moreover, the leader of Chetniks was a Minister in his Yugoslavian Government. Marechiel 14:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Dado Prso

Your edits to Dado Prso are quite disruptive, and in violation of Misplaced Pages's policies on NPOV and V. We have a reliable source that says that he is an ethnic serb, and do not have a reliable source that disagrees with this. While this is not vandalism, you can still be blocked for this if you continue to do so without any discussion. A better use of your time would be to find a reliable source that says he is not an ethnic serb. --Philosophus 11:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

My edits are not in violation of anything. The "reliable source" you are talking about is wrong as Prso himself has stated that(which I have provided sources as well) he is a Croat and that everything else is bullshit. I think he is by far more reliable source than the article from some ignorrant. I will continue to edit this false information as long as I can and you will find me I am quite persistant. Afrika paprika

Misplaced Pages does not present the truth. Rather, it presents reports by reliable sources. Since the AFP is a reliable source, we need to report on what it says even if it is wrong, not disregard it because of the error. The appropriate thing to do is to add that the AFP states ..., but (some other reliable source) states .... --Philosophus 11:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I disagree that AFP is reliable source. It's a news service as any other and it makes mistakes. This is a mistake by them. I have reliable sources which repeat exact words of Prso saying he is a Croat....on more than one occasion. You and and some others here disregarded it which is your problem actually. Afrika paprika

They do make mistakes sometimes, yes. All sources do. But since that is apparently one of only a few sources on the subject, the discrepency should be noted in the article. Otherwise, if someone reads that article, and the Misplaced Pages article, they will most likely think that Misplaced Pages is wrong. Furthermore, I don't see the sources that you are talking about. You should add a reference in a similar manner to the reference to the AFP article if you have such reliable sources. I really have very little knowledge or interest in the matter of Serb/Croat ethnicity, which I think is quite childish on the whole. I just noticed that you seemed to be disregarding WP:V in your edits, and other editors seemed to be disregarding the fact that you are not vandalising, and that their test templates were entirely inappropriate and could be seen as personal attacks. --Philosophus 17:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

There is no discrepency, AFP article is just wrong and thats that. Both articles I have are in Croatian and have never been translated or mentioned in any foreign source(though for what reason is not clear to me), however they are there. One of the sources where Prso plainly states he is a Croat is still on the official site of Croatian Football Association(HNS - Hrvatski Nogometni Savez). The other with the title "I am a Croat and everything else is bullshit" has been published in 'Sportske Novosti'(Sport News) which is most distinguished sport news daily in Croatia. Both are mentioned in the talk page of the same article yet certain memebers disregarded this fact and continue to push for the false information....and may I notice these users are mainly Serbs who are also ashamed that certain Serbian sportsmen and other people were born in Croatia. Also there is nothing childlish with the matter of Serb or Croat ethnicity, at least no more than with any other ethnicity. And finally I have nothing against Serbs nor any other user here, I just want this article to be according to Prso's own statements and to be truthful. --Afrika paprika