This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Bgwhite (talk | contribs) at 23:11, 27 August 2015 (→Copying from other articles: I have copied the ANI discussion from the talk page to the main page.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 23:11, 27 August 2015 by Bgwhite (talk | contribs) (→Copying from other articles: I have copied the ANI discussion from the talk page to the main page.)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)MusicAngels, you are invited to the Teahouse!
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Hi MusicAngels! Thanks for contributing to Misplaced Pages. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Misplaced Pages and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Soni (I'm a Teahouse host) Visit the TeahouseThis message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 18:22, 20 March 2015 (UTC) |
Your userpage
See Misplaced Pages:User_pages#User_pages_that_look_like_articles.
Also Arthur Rimbaud exists already, so, what are you doing? You can test all you want of course but it looks a little strange as your main userpage. — Jeraphine Gryphon 15:47, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
- Rimbaud this month, perhaps Emily Dickinson next month. These are meant as suggestions for people to read the full articles. MusicAngels (talk) 16:20, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
- Wouldn't that work better if you actually provided a link to the main article? — Jeraphine Gryphon 17:28, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
- This clearly falls under the category "User pages that look like articles". Can you give any reason why it should not be deleted? The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 16:20, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
IP editor identified for vandalism by three separate bots
You need to stop deleting conversations going on on talk pages or I will report you. 199.48.242.82 (talk) 16:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, just because someone forgot to sign their comment does not mean it should be removed. You can instead, if you wish, append a {{unsigned}} template to the comment, but do not remove it. For more information see the talk page guidelines. Thank you — MusikAnimal 16:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- @MusikAnimal: You appear to have returned an unsigned and unformated entry on that Talk page from a dynamic IP editor which has been flagged for vandalism and section blanking on the article edit history page in question multiple times. This is the entry from the article edit History page:
- (cur | prev) 12:27, 10 July 2015 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) m . . (112,972 bytes) (+112,972) . . (Reverting possible vandalism by 64.9.130.42 to version by MusicAngels. False positive? Report it. Thanks, ClueBot NG. (2287478) (Bot)) (undo)
- There are also multiple disruptive editing messages on the various dynamic IP editor Talk pages which other editors have posted. Each time I try to send another Talk message for that dynamic IP editor, they seem to change to another IP address. If there was any content, references, or reliable sources included on the Talk page then it should be retained. Without one single reference or reliable source given, then it appears to be the "vandalism" as identified by ClueBot NG quoted above. MusicAngels (talk) 17:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- First off, ClueBot is not the authority on what constitutes vandalism. Secondly, what happens on the article page does not dictate what happens on the talk page. Often unconstructive edits are accompanied by fully constructive talk page edits. The talk page is for just that, talking. Unless it is completely inappropriate and off-topic you should not be removing others' comments, period. Looking through the page history at Talk:Poetry in the early 20th century most of the comments appear relevant and constructive. Finally, your edit summary simply read Unsigned and improper format for Talk page. Message to IP editor on IP editor Talk page which is very much an inappropriate justification for removal. We never remove comments because they were "improperly formatted". New users almost never sign their posts, but they of course are still allowed and encouraged to participate in discussion. I hope this clears things up — MusikAnimal 17:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- @MusikAnimal: My initial purpose in doing this was, Option A, to encourage that IP-editor to open a regular account and to encourage them to start taking responsibility for their edits. If the IP-editor was still not listening, my next step would have been to ask for page protection for a few days as a further encouragement to get the IP-editor to open a regular account in order to continue responsible editing on the poetry Talk page discussion and other editing. Your Option B appears to be that you would like me to reformat and retitle the section on the Talk page there, and to make a third attempt to reach out to the dynamically changing IP-editor Talk page, in addition to the attempts I have already made. I'm ok with either option if you could indicate whichever one you would prefer. Any message you could leave for that IP-editor for proper editing would be helpful. MusicAngels (talk) 20:56, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- How about stop removing their messages so that they can engage in discussion? Do not try to force anonymous users to create accounts. IP's are human too and are perfectly allowed to edit and discuss without an account, even if their IP is ever-changing. A problematic example would be for the dynamic IP to pose as a different person to gain the upperhand in the discussion, or to evade blocks. I don't see that going on here. There may be some disruption on the mainspace article, but what I see on the talk page is a user attempting to talk, but you keep reverting their attempts. It's difficult to say if they are willing to work toward a conensus if you don't give them the chance. Does that make sense? By all means, if the talk page discussions fail to produce conesus, or the user(s) refuse to cooperate, we can take action accordingly. Until then let's at least give them the opportunity to speak their mind — MusikAnimal 21:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- @MusikAnimal: My initial purpose in doing this was, Option A, to encourage that IP-editor to open a regular account and to encourage them to start taking responsibility for their edits. If the IP-editor was still not listening, my next step would have been to ask for page protection for a few days as a further encouragement to get the IP-editor to open a regular account in order to continue responsible editing on the poetry Talk page discussion and other editing. Your Option B appears to be that you would like me to reformat and retitle the section on the Talk page there, and to make a third attempt to reach out to the dynamically changing IP-editor Talk page, in addition to the attempts I have already made. I'm ok with either option if you could indicate whichever one you would prefer. Any message you could leave for that IP-editor for proper editing would be helpful. MusicAngels (talk) 20:56, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- First off, ClueBot is not the authority on what constitutes vandalism. Secondly, what happens on the article page does not dictate what happens on the talk page. Often unconstructive edits are accompanied by fully constructive talk page edits. The talk page is for just that, talking. Unless it is completely inappropriate and off-topic you should not be removing others' comments, period. Looking through the page history at Talk:Poetry in the early 20th century most of the comments appear relevant and constructive. Finally, your edit summary simply read Unsigned and improper format for Talk page. Message to IP editor on IP editor Talk page which is very much an inappropriate justification for removal. We never remove comments because they were "improperly formatted". New users almost never sign their posts, but they of course are still allowed and encouraged to participate in discussion. I hope this clears things up — MusikAnimal 17:21, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- There are also multiple disruptive editing messages on the various dynamic IP editor Talk pages which other editors have posted. Each time I try to send another Talk message for that dynamic IP editor, they seem to change to another IP address. If there was any content, references, or reliable sources included on the Talk page then it should be retained. Without one single reference or reliable source given, then it appears to be the "vandalism" as identified by ClueBot NG quoted above. MusicAngels (talk) 17:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
- I have just begun a revision of the page and articulated my reasons in the talk page. Please do not undo and delete everything. My reasons are clear. Also, there are many academics who use IPs for a variety of reasons that are not abusive and have to do with university IP monitoring. Also there is no shame in anonymity -- many researchers do not want to have a wikipedia account for reasons that are not abusive. So please respect this. 206.222.164.126 (talk) 13:10, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
- The above IP editor has been associated with high probability vandalism by three separate bots, ClueBot, STiki, and system bot for section blanking at the related poetry page:
- (cur | prev) 12:27, 10 July 2015 ClueBot NG (talk | contribs) m . . (112,972 bytes) (+112,972) . . (Reverting possible vandalism by 64.9.130.42 to version by MusicAngels. False positive? Report it. Thanks, ClueBot NG. (2287478) (Bot)) (undo)
- (cur | prev) 22:18, 17 August 2015 Telfordbuck (talk | contribs) m . . (111,555 bytes) (-33) . . (Reverted 1 edit by 207.207.28.212 identified as test/vandalism using STiki) (undo)
- (cur | prev) 19:47, 15 August 2015 128.90.92.17 (talk) . . (85,636 bytes) (-25,919) . . (undo) (Tag: blanking)
- That activity identified by three bots as vandalism has been continuing for over a month on that page and that IP editor is currently section blanking about the half the article again against the endorsement review of WikiProject and WikiPatrol of the article in its original form. MusicAngels (talk) 15:00, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
THIS EDITOR CREATED THE PAGE AND HAS A PARTICULAR INTEREST IN MAINTAINING IT. WIKIPEDIA IS NOT FOR PERSONAL WEBPAGES. The entire page "Poetry in the Early 20th Century" should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.90.35.134 (talk) 12:36, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
- You appear not to be reading the link provided for you at WP:BRD. You are not supposed to be editing on the article page until consensus is reached on the Talk page there in the section which has been set up for you. Also you are not supposed to misattribute text to other editors which you have written yourself as you have done in your edit on that article page. Please stop misattributing your own edits to other editors at Misplaced Pages. MusicAngels (talk) 14:23, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
Vanity Pages
There is becoming a strong consensus that your edits and creation of pages are problematic. In the month of August you have picked fights with a number of editors who disagree with you. More and more will begin challenging your vanity projects.19:34, 25 August 2015 (UTC)19:34, 25 August 2015 (UTC)19:34, 25 August 2015 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:147:102:B30:12E:1802:787F:2464 (talk)
Hat notes and See also section updates
Please avoid creating and restoring improper hat notes as you did here and here and here . Also, please avoid claiming that the links to your page were "requested" by another editor or were the result of "consensus." There are no requests on any relevant talk page and no consensus. Anyway, why would another editor "request" a link instead of creating one? You are not doing yourself any good by writing statements like these, which are part of the permanent record of your actions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.17.161 (talk) 15:06, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
- Aha! More and more people are questioning who you are, MusicAngels, and why you are meddling. Your projects are vanity projects and will disappear soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.90.39.137 (talk) 01:02, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Please follow Misplaced Pages policies and procedures for proper editing. Your personal attacks should be removed. MusicAngels (talk) 15:47, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Aha! More and more people are questioning who you are, MusicAngels, and why you are meddling. Your projects are vanity projects and will disappear soon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.90.39.137 (talk) 01:02, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Copying from other articles
It has come to my attention the content of your poetry articles were copied and pasted from articles on various poets. This is fine... but you must supply attribution, which you have not. Please see Misplaced Pages:Copying within Misplaced Pages for how to fix this, specifically this section.
Now, I don't know if these are truly "vanity pages", but you should understand that no one owns articles and others are permitted to contribute. Likewise, to the many anonymous users blanking content, you'll need sufficient rationale to do so. Don't just blank entire sections stating it is "rubbish" or with some other unsatisfactory edit summary. Finally, please note WP:BRD is not a guideline or policy and no one is required to follow it. Edit warring applies to both parties in a content dispute, including the page creator.
Thank you for your cooperation — MusikAnimal 03:27, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Relevant comments and summary by User:Bgwhite here: . 86.146.120.23 (talk) 13:45, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- There are over 80 (eighty) citations in the bibliography which are fully documented and which I have gone out of my way to make sure they are up to date and functioning. The attribution is as full as it can be and there is no copyright violation in the article of any kind to my knowledge. If you have something unrelated to this is mind please indicate it, since I know that there are no copyright violation in the article of any kind and the banner notice should be removed. If you can provide any example of the type of attribution or notification which you want to see then point me to it and I will do my best to follow any well intended advice. The comments from the IP-user with dynamically changing IP addresses, to me, has looked more like graffiti to me rather than having content. I have maintained it on the Page at the request of another editor, and have tried to provide further links to help the IP-editor to try to communicate more effectively. There is no ownership of any article at Misplaced Pages, and I claim and assert no type of ownership of the article of any kind. The edits there yesterday by another editor adding various links to the article done by another editor looked perfectly reasonable and done fully responsibly. The eighty citations in the bibliography of the article have all been fully researched and fully attributed, there are no copyright violations to my knowledge of any kind in the article and any flags stating otherwise should be removed from the article. MusicAngels (talk) 15:44, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- The citations have nothing to do with this. The issue is you copied and pasted content from other articles on Misplaced Pages, so now it looks like you wrote that content when you did not. The patrollers didn't realize this or else they would have said something. Attribution must be given to the authors, or else it is technically in fact a copyright violation. Not to worry... it can be fixed. So I'll repeat myself, as apparently you did not read my first message: Please see Misplaced Pages:Copying within Misplaced Pages for how to fix this, specifically this section. — MusikAnimal 15:50, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Also please stop fragmenting discussions. You only need to reply in one place, preferably WT:AN (or AN/I if we decide to move the discussion there). No need to also write here, on my talk page, or at Bbb23's talk page. Thank you — MusikAnimal 15:58, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- @MusikAnimal: (This was just posted as an edit conflict and can be re-posted wherever it is needed). This issue really shall receive prompt attention by me since I don't want any such issues taking up anybody's time unnecessarily. I assume this is the section you are referring to on your link: Repairing cut-and-paste moves of a page and that you wish to see each affected section with an explicit banner to the pages which were consulted in putting the new article together. Previously I did make sure that all (each and every one of them) was linked to the original page using double-bracket links directly to the pages in question as I did in the Lead section and elsewhere. If this is what you meant, then I'm completely ready to double up on the linking to the original pages by both the links already there along with subsection redirects as well. If this is not what you meant, then tell me plainly what else you would like to see so that I can do it, since I would like to address this as promptly as possible. MusicAngels (talk) 16:07, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- The citations have nothing to do with this. The issue is you copied and pasted content from other articles on Misplaced Pages, so now it looks like you wrote that content when you did not. The patrollers didn't realize this or else they would have said something. Attribution must be given to the authors, or else it is technically in fact a copyright violation. Not to worry... it can be fixed. So I'll repeat myself, as apparently you did not read my first message: Please see Misplaced Pages:Copying within Misplaced Pages for how to fix this, specifically this section. — MusikAnimal 15:50, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- There are over 80 (eighty) citations in the bibliography which are fully documented and which I have gone out of my way to make sure they are up to date and functioning. The attribution is as full as it can be and there is no copyright violation in the article of any kind to my knowledge. If you have something unrelated to this is mind please indicate it, since I know that there are no copyright violation in the article of any kind and the banner notice should be removed. If you can provide any example of the type of attribution or notification which you want to see then point me to it and I will do my best to follow any well intended advice. The comments from the IP-user with dynamically changing IP addresses, to me, has looked more like graffiti to me rather than having content. I have maintained it on the Page at the request of another editor, and have tried to provide further links to help the IP-editor to try to communicate more effectively. There is no ownership of any article at Misplaced Pages, and I claim and assert no type of ownership of the article of any kind. The edits there yesterday by another editor adding various links to the article done by another editor looked perfectly reasonable and done fully responsibly. The eighty citations in the bibliography of the article have all been fully researched and fully attributed, there are no copyright violations to my knowledge of any kind in the article and any flags stating otherwise should be removed from the article. MusicAngels (talk) 15:44, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
First off, please do not write your reply on any other page. We'll discuss here. Now, you did not do a cut and paste move, you copied and pasted partial content. Sorry to send you off to try to figure it out on your own, it's just a lot of work. So anyway, the easiest way to take care of this to use the {{copied multi}} template (since you've copied from multiple pages). This will go on the talk pages. Here's a rough example:
{{Copied multi|list=
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet1 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
{{Copied multi/Copied|from=Poet2 |from_oldid=1234567890 |to=Here |diff=http://link/to/diff }}
}}
You will need a {{Copied multi/Copied}} for each and every article you took content from. Replace Poet1 with the name of the article. Next, go to the history page for Poet1, and click on the date of the revision from which you copied the content. This is likely the closest date to the date you created your article. For instance, here is a link to a revision from A. E. Housman . Once you're on the revision page, you'll see oldid=1234567890 in the URL. Copy that number after the = and use that as the from_oldid in the {{Copied multi/Copied}} template. Next, the "Here" should just be the name of your article. Finally, diff should be the diff of where you copied the content into your article. Diffs work the same way as getting the oldid, except click on "prev" in the page history rather than the date, and we'll want to use the full URL and not just the oldid.
First try this out on your own and I'll see if I can help you. This is a lot of work... so obviously I'm not too excited about doing it for you — MusikAnimal 16:35, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- User: Dennis Brown (another admin) has further explanations here: . 86.175.175.114 (talk) 18:01, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- @MusikAnimal: Thanks for your comments, since I am usually very concerned with getting all the details right. I also don't mind the extra effort which you mention to do all this. Just to be completely frank about this, these were not copy-pastes as much as they were selective adaptations I adapted from different subsections of some of the biography articles, as well as adding my own text to improve them further. Since they were not copy-pastes it occurred to me that it might be more accurate to use the "Further" template in each subsection of the article to invite readers to read the full articles (also, the "Main" template could do this as well if you see that as being better). Either one of these will take a long time, and I'm ok with whichever one you indicate as your preference. Once again, these were not simple-minded copy-pastes but they were often adaptations from separate subsections as needed to make them more readable (often the original articles were just Stubs or Start articles). Just indicate your preference and I'll start in. Getting more people to read the full biography material more fully sounds like a good direction to take.MusicAngels (talk) 18:15, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- I just went through Poetry in the early 20th century and did searches of various sentences throughout the article, and got nearly exact word for word matches from other articles. I'm afraid {{further}} is going to be insufficient, especially since it does not imply attribution belongs to the other article. I know this is a lot of work, but someone also worked hard to write all of that prose, and under the CC BY-SA 3.0 license they are legally bound to have their name attached to it. This is why we have the concept of a revision history, so we know who wrote what. The revision histories of your articles are missing author attribution, so surely you see the problem — MusikAnimal 18:34, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- I'm going to seek more help on this, if you want to wait for a moment. Maybe there's an easier way to do this — MusikAnimal 18:48, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- I just went through Poetry in the early 20th century and did searches of various sentences throughout the article, and got nearly exact word for word matches from other articles. I'm afraid {{further}} is going to be insufficient, especially since it does not imply attribution belongs to the other article. I know this is a lot of work, but someone also worked hard to write all of that prose, and under the CC BY-SA 3.0 license they are legally bound to have their name attached to it. This is why we have the concept of a revision history, so we know who wrote what. The revision histories of your articles are missing author attribution, so surely you see the problem — MusikAnimal 18:34, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- @MusikAnimal: Thanks for your comments, since I am usually very concerned with getting all the details right. I also don't mind the extra effort which you mention to do all this. Just to be completely frank about this, these were not copy-pastes as much as they were selective adaptations I adapted from different subsections of some of the biography articles, as well as adding my own text to improve them further. Since they were not copy-pastes it occurred to me that it might be more accurate to use the "Further" template in each subsection of the article to invite readers to read the full articles (also, the "Main" template could do this as well if you see that as being better). Either one of these will take a long time, and I'm ok with whichever one you indicate as your preference. Once again, these were not simple-minded copy-pastes but they were often adaptations from separate subsections as needed to make them more readable (often the original articles were just Stubs or Start articles). Just indicate your preference and I'll start in. Getting more people to read the full biography material more fully sounds like a good direction to take.MusicAngels (talk) 18:15, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- Why don't we just delete the entire page "Poetry in the early 20th Century" because it is SELECTIVELY cut and pasted, which is why User:MusicAngels is getting hammered left and right for bias. Just delete the whole thing. There doesn't need to be a portmanteau page clumping her preferences together. Professor P. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.129.251.87 (talk) 19:59, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
- @MusikAnimal: Previous comment solves the whole problem. Why make MusicAngels spend hours linking to all the pages they copied from? The real point is that MusicAngel's "Poetry in XYZ" pages shouldn't be here at all. They're just bad hodgepodges of other pages. They're basically useless and they're copyvios. Can't an admin post a Speedy Delete notice on all of them and enforce it? It would save a lot of trouble for everyone, including MusicAngels. 86.175.175.114 (talk) 22:48, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
NOTE I have copied the ANI discussion from the talk page to the main page. Bgwhite (talk) 23:11, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Stop disruptive editing.
Please stop your disruptive editing at Anne Carson, Derek Walcott and W. S. Merwin. You have been told at ANI twice (1 2) to stop this. You have copied material from the articles to Poetry in the early 21st century, so there is even more reason not to do the hatnote. You have said this was requested by others and you have consensus, but have not shown proof. Do not revert unless you can prove you have consensus and discuss here, otherwise you have continued your disruptive editing and become subject to a block. Bgwhite (talk) 23:07, 27 August 2015 (UTC)