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October 28

Archaic tractor at Great Oregon Steamup 2014-2015

This question concerns a historical tractor, so it seems to fit here. This machine. (Third in the video overall - first non-steam tractor.) I've seen it in person (in 2015) but I did not get the model number. Might anyone here recognize it? 67.42.179.33 (talk) 06:40, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

That is a 1918 Holt 75. Here's a solo video of (presumably) the same machine. Tevildo (talk) 08:51, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

That's it! Thank you! 67.42.179.33 (talk) 12:23, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm rather surprised that our article doesn't mention the role of the Holt tractor in the development of the tank. Another job for a rainy day. Alansplodge (talk) 11:07, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

See Holt Manufacturing Company#Influence on development of tanks, although the tractor article could be expanded - or, indeed, merged with the company article. Tevildo (talk) 22:29, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

US President from American Samoa

US Representative Tulsi Gabbard was born in American Samoa, a US territory, in 1981 to parents who were US citizens, and was raised in Hawaii from age 2. Does she satisfy the "native born" requirement to become US President? Would it matter how long her parents were in American Samoa what her parents' status was at the time of birth (tourists, diplomatic or military station, religious mission, business persons, for instance)? Edison (talk) 21:31, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

The answer is maybe. We don't have any case law which has ever tested the "Native born" provision, and defined its parameters. The provision, known as the Natural-born-citizen clause, doesn't itself well-define "natural born citizen", though most interpretations hold it to mean "had the rights of citizenship from birth." For a parallel case that matches hers closely, see Natural-born-citizen_clause#John_McCain, who was born in a US territory to parents who were US Citizens. Respected law professors and other legal scholars have disagreement over the issue. There have been some court cases that hold muddy the waters here; the courts have held that Congress does have the authority to set limits on citizenship, and that a person who is born abroad of U.S. parents have the right to citizenship, but that it is not automatically conferred, that it is a necessary but not sufficient condition in cases like this. For example, Rogers v. Bellei established that a person born abroad to U.S. Citizens would also have to meet reasonable U.S. residency requirements (as defined by Congress) to "activate" their citizenship status; citizenship is not granted for life from birth. A person who met all of those requirements, however, may still likely be considered "natural-born citizens". And I say "may" because the ONLY provision in ALL of the U.S. legal code for the "natural-born" status as having any special consideration is for President and Vice President, and the clause has never been tested in a court of law to define its parameters. --Jayron32 22:56, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

There is no possible case law because this is a political question that the courts won't get involved in, any more than they were willing to get involved in whether Bush and Cheney were both Texans and therefore whether the Twelfth Amendment prohibition on electors voting for a president and vice president from the same state as themselves would come into play. The only true test is whether Congress will certify the electoral vote in January. All presidents and vice presidents born after 1788 (the clause about being citizens of a state at the time the constitution came into force) were born in a state. I don't think that anything stops a person born in, or even a resident of a territory, from running and being elected president, and if that happened, would Congress really stand in the way of the will of the people? The obvious practical problems seem less important given that the Republicans seem ready to nominate someone without a record of serving in office or significant military service.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:08, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, Ted Cruz was born in Canada, Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona when it was still a territory. The definitive answer is uncertain, but the trend is toward "Yes". ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:12, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

I asked this because I just saw her on TV and she made a very good impression, having volunteered for two combat tours, and having said she would be willing to run for vice president if asked. BTW she is a Hindu of Samoan origin and seemed (ahem) quite presentable and intelligent. Good to hear she might be eligible. Edison (talk) 04:34, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

There is no requirement that the president be born in the United States, as being born in the US is not the exclusive means of acquiring American citizenship by right of birth. This has come up before, with Lowell Weicker, who briefly ran for president in 1980. Twelfth Amendment says no person ineligible to be president can be VP, so she would be OK. It's Congress's job to deal with the electoral vote, so again, I doubt a court would touch it; no one would have legal standing to challenge. If I recall correctly, there were a small number of challenges in court that got nowhere about the 2000 election, and several representatives tried to challenge it in the joint session, but also went nowhere because the rules for the joint session said they needed a senator to go along for the challenge to be considered, and they couldn't get one to sign on.--Wehwalt (talk) 05:10, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Another theoretical test case was Michigan governor George W. Romney, a Republican presidential primary candidate in 1968, and father of 2012 Republican candidate Mitt Romney. The elder Romney was born in Mexico to American citizens who were residents of a breakaway Mormon polygamist colony, who had fled the U.S. because of legal repression. Most commentators in 1968 concluded that George Romney was eligible because his parents were U.S. citizens. Cullen Let's discuss it 05:37, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Another consideration is that the Constitution does not follow the flag. US citizenship was not automatically extended to residents of the territories taken from Spain, nor did those born there thereafter automatically become citizens until Congress later extended citizenship. Congress has full jurisdiction over territories; their governments are its creations (which is why I would be very interested in seeing informed discussion of whether the proposed Puerto Rican debt restructuring , if forced on the unwilling, would violate the 14th Amendment requirement that the public debt not be questioned, since the governments that issued them are creations of Congress, at root).--Wehwalt (talk) 06:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Umaid Bhawan Palace

Today's main page says "Did you know ... that the Umaid Bhawan Palace was constructed in 1928 to assist famine-stricken farmers by employing 2,000 to 3,000 people as builders?" The article asserts that "it had served the main purpose of helping the citizens of Jodhpur to face the famine situation", and cites the hotel guide, which is hardly a reliable source on economic matters, and which in turn does not cite references. Hence, my questions:

1. Where did the money come from? From Rajastan's taxpayers, which included the suffering farmers?
2. How effective is it really to build a palace as a measure against famine?

— Sebastian 22:12, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Regarding your first question: According to the corresponding article on German Misplaced Pages the construction costs of 12.100.000 rupees came from the Maharaja's private assets. No reference included, alas. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:44, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

In reference to your question about economics, such public works are a main plank of Keynsian economics. In the The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money of 1936, John Maynard Keynes postulates that "If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with banknotes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coalmines which are then filled up to the surface with town rubbish, and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again (the right to do so being obtained, of course, by tendering for leases of the note-bearing territory), there need be no more unemployment and, with the help of the repercussions, the real income of the community, and its capital wealth also, would probably become a good deal greater than it actually is". Such profligate government spending was an anathema to the Monetarists of the 1980s, but most modern economists seem to advocate a middle course. Unemployment relief schemes of this kind were common well before Keynes's time; my own home town in the London suburbs created a huge boating lake for the sole purpose of keeping the unemployed busy in 1911. Alansplodge (talk) 11:21, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages has an article titled Public works which discusses the economic benefits of government sponsored public works programs, and includes many links to further reading, inside and outside of Misplaced Pages, on the subject. --Jayron32 11:34, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your answers so far. I was aware of the similarity to public works, but I hadn't looked at that article before. I am still unclear about some important questions there, such as for what situations such programs have been tried, and how effective it was for each. So I'm doing my own guessing here. There are a number factors that I would think are significantly different:

1. Rajastan had experienced a famine, which is quite a different situation from the situations where public works are usually employed, such as unemployment. Even in the best cases, public works have been criticized by some as inefficient.
2. Public works are investments in infrastructure, which will pay off for the populace. By contrast, a palace takes away resources that could be used much better elsewhere - see opportunity cost. Is there any reason that choosing to build the Umaid Bhawan Palace instead of the obvious choice of a rural development program was justifiable?

— Sebastian 18:36, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Historically, "public works" has comprised largely the construction of public buildings/structures such as palaces, aqueducts, and military roads. A rural development program is a much newer idea, and defining "public works" to include it but to exclude a palace would confuse most people throughout history. Nyttend (talk) 13:11, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Not sure where you get this statement from. Our article public works doesn't list the history of the concept, but according to its German sister article, the first such programs were carried out in France (Ateliers de charité and Ateliers nationaux). Those were workshops, not projects centered around big public buildings. But that isn't actually answering my question, anyway. — Sebastian 22:20, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Read Byzantium: The Early Centuries and the other two volumes of the series, or any of many other histories of the Eastern Roman Empire, for some examples of this concept. It predates the Ateliers de charité et Ateliers nationaux by something like two thousand years, or more. Nyttend (talk) 04:00, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

I haven't been able to find a referenced answer for your question, but note that the rulers of the Princely States in the British Indian Empire had almost total internal autonomy, most were absolute monarchs and many were fabulously wealthy. Therefore, if the Maharaja wanted a new palace, that's exactly what he got. By Keynes's "buried money" example above, it would have benefited the local economy anyway, and in the very long term, it has provided employment and tourist income from its present use as luxury hotel. Alansplodge (talk) 19:13, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Sure, in the long term. But how did that help the starving farmers? (Compare this with the Fairy Tale King of Bavaria, who was hated by the populace at the time, and eventually deposited.) — Sebastian 22:20, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, it gave them wages to buy food with. These days when direct food aid is available from charities and government agencies, a famine means that there is no food available. In the past, it could mean that the price of food had risen beyond the ability of working people to pay for it, especially if their income was derived from the crop which had failed. See The Great Irish Famine: Public Works Relief During the Liberal Administration for an earlier (but not very successful) parallel. Alansplodge (talk) 22:29, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Interesting about the Irish Famine; I hadn't been aware they also tried something like this then. Re "it gave them wages to buy food with": Sure, but it does matter what the wages are for. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, in other words, if you have a palace, there's something else you won't have. The farmers' labor was diverted from things that actually could have also helped them the next year, such as improving their tools, digging wells, &c. But I'm beginning to realize that this may not be appropriate for the RD. The question (#2) boils down to whether it was a sound investment at the time. That probably would be a good topic for an economics doctor degree. — Sebastian 23:07, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm beginning to change my mind on this. If it was the Maharaja's own money, then the statement "it had served the main purpose of helping the citizens of Jodhpur to face the famine situation" is tenable. Thanks for your patient explainations, Alan! — Sebastian 23:18, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

October 29

Alfred E. Neuman and Kladderadatsch

As described and depicted in our article on Kladderadatsch, the magazine featured a grinning boy on its covers (not always, but often, see picture posted in this thread, as well as, e.g., , , etc. ... A grinning imp in shifting guises featured on the cover of a satirical magazine, ... sound familiar? Of course I was reminded of Mad's Alfred E. Neuman, but found absolutely nothing about any connection or acknowledged influence anywhere. Can anyone here find anything?

Second question: Are there other older satirical magazines that included a mascot in different situations and personifications on their cover? Thank you in advance! ---Sluzzelin talk 00:35, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

See Punch (magazine), which dates to a few years before Kladderadatsch, which used Punch, a well known satirical character (see Punch and Judy as well) as its mascot. The Punch character appeared on many (if not all, the vast majority) of its covers. --Jayron32 00:49, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Jayron. ---Sluzzelin talk 20:57, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Louisiana Purchase and West Florida

In 1810, James Madison proclaimed:

"Whereas the territory south of the Mississippi Territory and eastward of the river Mississippi, and extending to the river Perdido, of which possession was not delivered to the United States in pursuance of the treaty concluded at Paris on the 30th April, 1803, has at all times, as is well known, been considered and claimed by them as being within the colony of Louisiana conveyed by the said treaty in the same extent that it had in the hands of Spain and that it had when France originally possessed it;"

So it would appear that he considered West Florida (to the Perdido River) to be part of the Louisiana Purchase. I can find virtually no maps or other literature that indicate this; they all stop the Purchase at the Mississippi River. Should that part of West Florida be considered disputed territory from 1803 to 1810? Or did most at the time consider it simply foreign territory? I understand that territorial ownership way back then could be confusing and poorly demarcated, but West Florida is a pretty easy chunk to figure out if you think you own it or not. --Golbez (talk) 11:57, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

See West Florida Controversy, to wit "Before 1762 France had owned and administered the land west of the Perdido River as part of La Louisiane. In 1762 France secretly ceded its lands west of the Mississippi River plus the land west of the Perdido River to Spain. Excluding the island of New Orleans, the area between the Mississippi and Perdido Rivers became part of Spanish Florida." and later " When France then sold the Louisiana Territory to the United States in 1803, a dispute arose between Spain and the United States regarding whether West Florida was part of the Louisiana Purchase. The United States laid claim to the region of West Florida between the Mississippi and Perdido Rivers, asserting it had initially been part of French Louisiana. Spain held that such a claim was baseless." The dispute resulted in the short-lived putative Republic of West Florida, which was fully annexed by the U.S. All the articles I linked cover the background in more detail, and have external links and references to follow if you want to read more. Territorial_evolution_of_the_United_States, on the entry April 30, 1803 specifically notes the dispute, and all maps associated with the article, from April 30, 1803 until its resolution in the Adams–Onís Treaty in 1819 note the land as disputed. (it's colored pink). The modern day land covered by this dispute is known informally in Louisiana as the Florida Parishes. --Jayron32 12:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

I wrote the territorial evolution article. :P I'm trying to improve it. --Golbez (talk) 18:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Peter Fleming's travelling companion - a tall Lord in Manchukuo

Reading Peter Fleming's One's Company, he mentions a companion "M". M is "a member of the House of Lords... 29 years old and tall for his age", and had "some sort of journalistic pretext for his presence in Manchukuo". The journey took place in 1933. I would like to know who M was. DuncanHill (talk) 13:50, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

You could look for a category intersection between Category:1904 births and Category:Peers of the United Kingdom or something like that, it may get you started. --Jayron32 16:29, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

a definitely incomplete list follows. Peer & 1904 & not dead by 1933. I suppose it could be further refined by date that each was seated (would have to be before 1933). How would one identify him. "M" could be a complete red-herring.

• Arthur Windham Baldwin 1904-1976

3rd Earl Baldwin of Bewdley

• John Patrick Douglas Balfour 1904-1976

3rd Baron Kinross

• Percy Ronald Gardner Bernard 1904-1979

5th & last Earl of Bandon

• Roderick Blunk-Mackenzie 1904-1989

4th Earl of Cromartie

• Chandos Sydney Cedric Brudenell-Bruce 1904-1974

7th Marquess of Ailesbury

• Adam Duncan Chetwynd 1904-1965

9th Viscount Chetwynd

• David McAdam Eccles 1904-1999

1st Viscount Eccles

• Oliver Thomas Farrer 1904-1954

4th Baron Farrer

• Charles Fitzroy 1904-1989

5th Baron Southampton

• Frederick Charles Gordon-Lennox 1904-1989

aka “Freddie March”

9th Duke of Richmond

• Richard Haden Guest 1904-1987

3rd Baron Haden-Guest

• James Edward Hamilton 1904-1979

4th Duke of Abercorn

• (Julian Stanhope) Theodore Hawke 1904-1992

10th Baron Hawke, of Towton

• Mervyn Horatio Herbert 1904-1943

17th Baron Darcy de Knayth

• Alan Tindal Lennox-Boyd 1904-1983

1st Viscount Boyd of Merton

• Alfred Sydney Frederick Maitland 1904-1968

16th Earl of Lauderdale

• Roger Mellor Makins 1904-1996

1st Baron Sherfield

• (Robert) John Napier 1904-1987

5th Baron Napier of Magdala

• Matthew Henry Hubert Ponsonby 1904-1976

2nd Baron Ponsonby of Shulbrede

• John Gilbert Ramsay 1904-1950

15th Earl of Dalhousie

• William Thomas George “Tom” Wentworth-Fitzwilliam 1904-1979

10th and last Earl Fitzwilliam

• Solly Zuckerman 1904-1993

life peer Baron Zuckerman created 1971

- Nunh-huh 22:31, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, well it's a start! Obviously it's not Solly. I suppose I was hoping that perhaps it had been mentioned in an obit or biography or the like which someone here might have read. A 1933 or '34 Whitaker's would have a list of peers, which could help. DuncanHill (talk) 01:31, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I took the liberty of adding links to the list (and correcting a spelling or two); these enabled me to look easily and find that only Dalhousie, Bandon and Darcy had inherited their titles by 1933. —Tamfang (talk) 09:00, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe we shouldn't assume that Fleming got it right about "member of the House of Lords": if M were e.g. an Irish peer, or an heir apparent to an earldom, he'd have a lordly title but not be a member. —Tamfang (talk) 02:06, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm, well Bandon got married in Kenya in February 1933 so seems unlikely on that count. Can't find much about Dalhousie. Darcy de Knayth has a forename starting with an M and looks possible. I've considered Tamfang's suggestion, but I think Fleming was unlikely to make a mistake about something like that. DuncanHill (talk) 13:47, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Re Dalhousie: My 1949 Burke's (p. 534) says biographically "B.A. Ch. Ch. Oxford, served in Scots Guards 1925-30; elected Hon. Pres. of Angus Unionist Assoc. 1937; b. 25 July 1904; s. his father as 15th Earl 1928". No marriage, his brother Simon as heir presumptive. Probably not the guy. Traipsing across Asia and then no war record? Don't think so.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:30, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Pretty much what it says online.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:34, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Here's what I've found so far, italicizing the non-House lords:

• Theobald Walter Somerset Henry Butler, 8th Earl of Carrick, 1903–1957, succeeded 1931
• Arthur Gore, Viscount Sudley, 1903–1958, future 7th Earl of Arran (peerage of Ireland)
• George Loftus, Viscount Loftus, 1903–1969, future 7th Marquess of Ely
• Douglas Douglas-Hamilton, Marquess of Douglas and Clydesdale, 1903–1973, future 14th Duke of Hamilton
• Edward Chichester, 6th Marquess of Donegall, 1903–1975, succeeded 1904
• Alec Douglas-Home, Lord Dunglass, 1903–1995, future 14th Earl of Home
• John Gilbert Ramsay, 15th Earl of Dalhousie, 1904–1950, succeeded 1928
• Cedric Brudenell-Bruce, Earl of Cardigan, 1904–1974, future 7th Marquess of Ailesbury
• James Hamilton, Marquess of Hamilton, 1904–1979, future 4th Duke of Abercorn
• Percy Bernard, 5th Earl of Bandon, 1904–1979, succeeded 1924 (peerage of Ireland)
• Frederick Gordon-Lennox, Earl of March and Kinrara, 1904–1989, future 9th Duke of Richmond

—Tamfang (talk) 22:00, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Butler was Earl of Carrick, not Earl of Carrick! DuncanHill (talk) 22:15, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

October 30

Who was Saint Albright?

Driving through the village of Stanway in Essex on Wednesday, I was intrigued by the dedication of the parish church to St Albright, who I have never heard of before. The only reference I can find for him is on the church's website, which says that Albright may be either "King Ethebert" (who seems to be King Æthelberht II of East Anglia) or else a companion of Saint Cedd. Can a) anyone find a better reference for Albright and b) are there any other churches with the same dedication? Alansplodge (talk) 10:27, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

This book by George Buckler from 1856 agrees with the Ethelbert (also spelled Aegelbriht). It also mentions another church in Marden, Herefordshire dedicated to the saint. Mikenorton (talk) 10:42, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

This mentions a chapel in Suffolk. Mikenorton (talk) 10:46, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you both - I thought I had exhausted Google but can't have found the right search terms. The church at Marden is dedicated to St Mary the Virgin, but is on the supposed site of Æthelberht/Ethelbert's martyrdom. Alansplodge (talk) 15:51, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

And the chapel in Suffolk (it actually seems to be just over the Essex border) can now only "be seen in crop marks". Alansplodge (talk) 16:06, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Articles now amended - thanks! Alansplodge (talk) 21:40, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Bookshops with sofas and comfy chairs

Some bookshops in Ireland (and I am pretty sure in other countries too) offer their clients the possibility to sit and read. There is no limitation as to how long you stay. Want to read the whole book? You're welcome. How can this be good for business? --Denidi (talk) 12:32, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

They think that if they create a relaxed and welcoming environment people will come in to browse and ultimately buy more books. --Viennese Waltz 12:45, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

A friend of mine runs one and yes it's quite true what Viennese Waltz says. Also he is creating a sense of community among the browsers, selling coffee and cake (which is another income stream so quite canny doing that), and he also runs folk nights and film nights. Diversifying in business can be quite profitable. --TammyMoet (talk) 15:11, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

I can testify to the above, since I've often become engrossed in a book and been obliged to buy it at closing time. Let's hope that bookshops don't get killed-off by the internet. Alansplodge (talk) 17:33, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

This is a very common thing among the big chain bookstores in the US. (as well as the aforementioned coffee and pastries) They wouldn't provide those comfy chairs unless they felt that they could make money on it. So, why not a small retailer? Additionally, the larger chains have the marketing capital to be able to study whether it helps their bottom line. So, obviously, they've studied it and found it to be a net gain. The smaller shops can just look at what the big boys are doing and leach off the marketing research that they see before them when entering a big store. Dismas| 18:47, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Barnes & Noble, for one, not only allows lounging but also typically has a café, to further encourage sticking around. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:16, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Waterstones, a big chain in the UK, also has couches and coffee shops in them. You can sit there all day reading a book. My friend's girlfriend works there. They make their money from the coffee and tea and cakes that you buy whilst reading. KägeTorä - (_虎) (もしもし！) 04:47, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Going one step further Shakespeare and Company (bookstore) has several beds that people can sleep on in the store. I'm not sure that you can stay there until you finish reading War and Peace though. MarnetteD|Talk 04:55, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Record shops used to have the same sort of thing. I spent many hours at the Virgin shop in Glasgow listening to various records. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 00:15, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Not that this is a general retail business question, of whether you want to encourage customers to loiter, or to make their purchases and leave. For restaurants, for example, this depends on many factors, such as how much space is available and the customer volume. If you have a high customer volume and very limited space, best to get them in and out quickly with just a take-out counter. If you have lots of space and few customers, better to encourage them to stay, as maybe they will order more food and bring their friends and family in, too, to order even more. As was mentioned previously, bookstores often serve food and drinks now, and that may even become their primary source of income, with the books being more of a theme than primary product.

I went to a cider mill that has also taken the entertainment idea to the max. While cider mills originally allowed people to buy apple cider and maybe donuts, and perhaps pick their own apples, this one added a restaurant, hay rides, a petting zoo, and a mini golf course, since they had lots of room and wanted to find ways to keep people there longer to spend more money. StuRat (talk) 00:54, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

• This is a well-known economic principle known as a loss leader: businesses give away an item for free, because doing so generates sales down the road. We know it works because everyone does it. If it didn't work, the businesses that did do it would be put under by those that didn't. QED. --Jayron32 01:12, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

• Re: "We know it works because everyone does it." Let's see references showing that all businesses use the loss leader pricing strategy, please. StuRat (talk) 02:55, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

In the UK, the two largest bookshop chains, Waterstones and Blackwell's have both embraced the coffee and comfy chairs paradigm, but I found this 2013 BBC article which quotes the head of marketing at Foyles (once "the world's largest bookshop"), who said; "The idea of people dwelling all day with a book in their hand in a comfy chair is lovely," she says. "But I think we all know it's not particularly financially sustainable. We can't really pay for people to sit on our couches and read our books all day". So maybe not universally accepted. In the 1980s and earlier, Foyles used to go out of the way to make it hard to buy anything in their labyrinthine London shop; you had to take the book you wanted to an assistant who would spend ages wrapping it in brown paper and tape and then write out an invoice by hand, which you then had to take to a cashier round several corners and sometimes on another floor. Once you had paid, you had to find your way back to the original assistant with the stamped invoice and finally exchange it for your purchase. It was quite surreal. Alansplodge (talk) 15:32, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

How are laws against illegal abortions enforced in the US?

I know abortion is heavily regulated. It must be performed by a licensed medical practitioner, and there are restrictions for underage mothers. But how is the law enforced? Can't a woman just wolf down an insane number of pineapples and oranges outside the law to induce abortion? Is there a way to find out whether an illegal abortion has taken place? 107.226.233.219 (talk) 12:52, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Sadly, in many place where access to safe and legal abortion is restricted, many women can and do resort to unsafe measures. See Abortion#Unsafe_abortion, and Unsafe abortion. Here is a news story about an Indiana women has been convicted of feticide for seeking to abort a fetus through extra-legal means. Here's another report on the same case . Here is a general overview of some of the ways that anti-abortion laws are hurting women . SemanticMantis (talk) 16:21, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

May I assume that your "insane number of pineapples and oranges" is premised on the belief that a large dose of Vitamin C can act as an abortifacient? It is not clear how effective that is. The subject is touched upon very briefly in both Vitamin C§Possible side-effects andAbortifacient§Natural abortifacients. In this 2011 article, a couple of medical students reviewing available literature failed to find any reliable study showing the effectiveness of Vitamin C in this role. -- ToE 18:07, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

• My understanding is that in most cases it is the abortionist who is prosecuted, see, for example, the case of Kermit Gosnell who got thirty years for killing fetuses delivered alive. Women are indeed sometimes prosecuted for the abuse (or death of late term) fetuses. See, for example, this case where a Tennessee woman was prosecuted for assault for using drugs during her pregnancy. μηδείς (talk) 18:08, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Zdzisław Beksiński paintings on view in america?

Are there any? Googling has returned no sufficient results, his official website says nothing, our page on him says nothing... NIRVANA2764 (talk) 20:11, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Here's a link to our article, so everyone knows who he is: Zdzisław Beksiński. StuRat (talk) 20:18, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Very rare; I stumped the reference desk. NIRVANA2764 (talk) 23:21, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

October 31

Republicanism in Canada

How popular is the republican movement in Canada? The Republicanism in Canada article doesn't really give much up in terms of numbers or percentages. Hack (talk) 05:55, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Back to the question; our article, Debate on the monarchy in Canada, has lots of fairly recent statistics - perhaps the two articles should be better linked. Alansplodge (talk) 09:37, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I know this is an anecdotal, unreferenced answer, but...everyone already treats our political system as a republic anyway, thanks to watching too much American TV. The recent election, as with all elections for at least the past 20 years, have been treated as if we're electing a president. I think we know it doesn't "really" work that way, but could a typical person explain what's really happening? I doubt it. The Queen does not enter anyone's mind on a regular basis. Who could even name the current governor-general? Movements for reform are manifested in different ways (like, changing the first-past-the-post system, or creating an elected Senate) but there is no republican movement. Adam Bishop (talk) 11:18, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

About whether a typical person could explain it — really? It doesn't seem that complicated. Probably less involved formally than the way Americans elect a president which, my previous comments notwithstanding, I have to admit I'm not sure a typical American could explain either.

Though I admit there is one aspect of it that never did quite make sense to me, which is how minority governments stay in power. I think Harper kept a minority going for almost the full mandate, his first time? --Trovatore (talk) 17:59, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Does the Queen's portrait still appear on Canadian currency? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 13:50, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, but you probably don't think much about Alexander Hamilton everytime you handle a $10 bill. I don't have any strong feelings about caribou whenever I give someone a quarter either :) Adam Bishop (talk) 14:20, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I actually do, but I get your point. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:38, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

And she doesn't appear on every denomination of paper currency; I think only the $20. I suspect republicanism in Canada doesn't get much love because a) Ending the Canadian monarchy would require a considerable new settlement among Ottawa and the provinces, which given past history is unlikely, and not worth doing until b) a widespread view that it would be a good idea, which it hasn't yet. Combine that with a political system where it is harder than it is in Australia for a new party to break into the national parliament, and no galvanizing event such as Whitlam's Dismissal to bring the monarchy into question.--Wehwalt (talk) 16:42, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure why it would require a renegotiation of Canadian federalism. From a glance at the article, it sounds like some of the proposals boil down to replacing the sovereign with a GG appointed by Parliament, a purely symbolic change, and everyone goes about their business as before. Since the GG himself is almost purely symbolic I think it's amusing that they call the GG the "de facto head of state", when the truth is that de facto he has no functions worth bothering about I wouldn't think this version of republicanism would be all that traumatic. But for the same reason it doesn't seem all that worth doing. --Trovatore (talk) 17:54, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Who does ceremonial things like going to funerals of foreign heads of state, welcoming foreign diplomats, and going to disaster scenes to say how sorry Ottawa is about the disaster? Is all of that the PM's job? Nyttend (talk) 03:45, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Do those things actually need to be done? I'm not entirely convinced that they need to be done. --Trovatore (talk) 09:39, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I misunderstood your question. In the current setup, they obviously have to be done, so I thought you meant someone else did them; I didn't realise that you were saying that those were functions unworth bothering about. Nyttend (talk) 12:30, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, who appoints the lieutenant governors? Is Quebec going to want someone outside doing that? A lot of things are done in the name of the Queen. Criminal cases are brought in the name of the Queen, that changes to what? There will have to be some constitutional change, and every time that happens, either Quebec is a problem or everyone wants cash from Ottawa. Is there a big enough consensus to get this done? The Constitution Act requires an amendment that affects the Crown to be approved unanimously (all ten provinces). Short of Charles insulting maple syrup, and he's perfectly capable of that, I don't see how things get from A to B.--Wehwalt (talk) 04:01, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Lieutenant governors have no functions worth bothering about either, so I don't know why it matters who appoints them (or why one needs them at all), but I suppose it could either be the GG or the provincial parliament. Quebec should be reasonably happy with the latter, I suppose? Or are you saying that that in itself would be a "new settlement"?

Criminal prosecutions could be brought in the name of "the people", the way it's done south of the border, or in the name of the GG, or the nation, or something. Why does it matter? --Trovatore (talk) 09:49, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

It's often assumed that as I'm an intelligent, educated Australian, I therefore must be a republican. Actually I'm a staunch "I don't give a damn either way, as long as we still have publicly funded universal health care"-ist. There may well be people in Canada who think this way too.

To be honest, I think living in a monarchy where the head of state is on the other side of the world is a bit of a hoot: it's like having a BBC sit-com as a key part of the constitution.--Shirt58 (talk) 07:25, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Anecdotally and seriously out of date, but during a visit to Toronto in the late 1970s, several Canadians were keen to tell me that the monarchy in Canada was secure because a) it makes Canada distinct from the USA and b) it really annoys the Francophones. Alansplodge (talk) 12:35, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Most Americans with a modicum of education, when asked, "Who will be king when the queen dies?" will say, "Charles", not "America has no monarch." μηδείς (talk) 23:49, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

November 1

Trick-or-treat: what if you don't give any candy?

What happens in the US if a group of children knock at your door and you don't give candy. The reason is indifferent: either because you don't want to, or, you just don't like children.--Denidi (talk) 02:04, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

It depends on the manner in which you do it, and the willingness of the spurned kids to seek revenge. If you leave your porch light off and don't answer the door, that's one thing. If you leave the light on and/or open the door and act like Scrooge, that's asking for trouble. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:44, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. Types of traditional "tricks" include having toilet paper rolls tossed over your trees, eggs thrown at your house, or rude things written in soap on your windows. StuRat (talk) 02:52, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

So, could someone not give any candy because he's thinking on the children's welfare? That is, this someone thinks the kids are too fat, could have more fun playing a trick, and they should also learn that they won't get candy from everyone.--Denidi (talk) 03:09, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Sure, just leave the porch light out and the kids skip your house. Also note that many neighborhoods don't do trick-or-treat anymore, because it's too unsafe. Those kids either go to a safer neighborhood or do some type of community indoor activity. You could also give out somewhat healthier treats, like granola bars (some are far better than others). StuRat (talk) 03:46, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

My normally nosey neighbor had four cones at the bottom of his driveway. I put across the little chain that can be strung between the lampposts though I left the chain unattached (I don't want some idiot to drive into it) with the little reflective tile propped up on the ground. I had one car come up the driveway and knock on the door. I just ignored it. I'm fine with Halloween, but for various reasons I don't care to deal with it.--Wehwalt (talk) 03:54, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

• Decades ago we carried a bar of soap, and if you did not answer the door, we'd put a soap X on your window. Occasionally you would see eggings or TP'ing, (not to be confused with T'Pring.) Most mischief for mischief's sake happened on mischief night, and we were not allowed out, although when I got older I could stand in the driveway with the garden hose to hose down would-be miscreants. This year we had no mischieffing, and about 60 trick-or-treaters. In the 70's, there would be about 200-300 kids, but the demographics of my New Jersey hometown have changed to a markedly older population with smaller families. μηδείς (talk) 20:09, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

To answer another question that might be coming up, candy isn't an absolute necessity. When I was a kid, I would occasionally get some coins (usually not much, not more than 50¢), a toothbrush, or a small toy (maybe a ring that looked like a spider or something like that). This year, a friend of mine gave out Beanie Babies since she has so many of them that she doesn't want. Dismas| 20:23, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Giving kids toothbrushes is even more likely to get your house egged than not giving them anything. :-) StuRat (talk) 23:42, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

We got about three times as many trick-or-treaters this year as last. So after the candy bars ran out, I gave away Hershey's Kisses (which are meant as a household snack), then to giving out diet granola bars with a quarter coin as consolation, then to giving out 50c/head, then, out of desperation, to inviting the tykes in for glasses of red wine. μηδείς (talk) 17:51, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

American Samoa website

Does anyone know where I can find an/the official website of the government of American Samoa? The american samoa article provides a link to http://www.americansamoa.gov, as does their profile on USA.gov, but that page is consistently returning an "Account Suspended" page. I don't suppose that the territory would let their website die without getting a new one, so it would help if someone could find it. I ran a Google search without finding anything official other than the USA.gov page, although I've discovered that other government-run websites (e.g. Department of Human and Social Services and the Elections Office) are still working without apparent hiccups. Nyttend (talk) 03:50, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

As far as I can see, that is the official page. You can also see it referenced on the as.gov domain websites such as http://doc.as.gov/links-2/ . There doesn't see to be any formal structure to the domains. .gov is a USA hosted domain as American Samoa is a US territory, but really they should use .gov.as for all governmental departments. It seems that (much like the main website) no-one cares too much about it. 'Account suspended' doesn't mean that the domain has expired, it usually means that the hosting package has exceeded its allocated bandwidth or breached one of the T&Cs (sometimes after being compromised and sending out spam). Nanonic (talk) 10:54, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmation and for correcting my misunderstanding in the last sentence. I figured that it had been suspended because they didn't pay to be allowed to continue using the domain, so it lapsed. Nyttend (talk) 12:35, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

US$ in Canada

Here in the USA, Canadian quarters and smaller-denominated coins occasionally appear in change (even showing up amid rolls of coins from the bank), and most people accept them without question: some vending machines reject them, but I can't immediately remember any other situation where a single Canadian coin would be rejected because it was Canadian. Except for the $1 and $2 coins, which I've never seen in use here, it helps that they're the same sizes, colors, and denominations as US coins. Is the parallel situation true, i.e. can one occasionally see US coins circulating in Canada as if they were Canadian coins? Nyttend (talk) 03:56, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Since the exchange rate almost always makes US coins worth more than Canadian coins, there's no reason why Canadian businesses wouldn't accept US coins at face value, at the very least. Indeed, many businesses near the border (which is a large portion of Canada, population-wise) offer a favorable exchange rate to encourage US visitors. StuRat (talk) 04:02, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

I've traveled to 10 provinces and 1 territory, and it's usually been cents (pennies) north of the border, but that has ended with rounding. Sometimes nickels (nickles) as they are fairly close in composition, or were, before Canada went to plated steel and started pulling the old issues out. I've seen vending machines close to ports of entry (on the Canada side) where US coins work in vending machines, especially the ones by the Niagara River. When the Canadian dollar was down to sixty cents or so, I remember working those machines at my hotel in Fort Erie to get all the US coins I could out of them (if the refund slot returns to you the coins at the bottom of the stack, not the coins you put in).

Except when the metal value causes hoarding, people in general have never been greatly concerned with their base metal coins, as long as they are confident they can have them accepted by the next taker. In the UK, you'll run across, now and then, coins from Jersey, Guernsey, Gibraltar, or the Isle of Man (and in rare instances the Falkland Islands or St Helena). They are not legal tender. They are the same weight and composition as British coins. No one cares.

But don't take base metal coins to a foreign exchange dealer and expect anything but to be turned away. We're talking about casual transactions here.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:57, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Wehwalt, what do you mean by "rounding"? Is this a reference to Penny (Canadian coin)#Abolition perhaps? Nyttend (talk) 04:02, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah.--Wehwalt (talk) 04:07, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

What's it got in it's pockets? Several Canadian coins of various denominations, and one American quarter. I probably got it at the grocery store, but I don't really know. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:19, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

You refer to yourself as "it" ? StuRat (talk) 19:35, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

It's because of his "twisted body and mind". Deor (talk) 19:46, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

However, that should be "its" and "pocketses". The Grammar Police never rest. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:27, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

When this one finds a coin with an American president's face on it, it makes the "historical imagery" bell ding. Then the "twisted people might find this metal precious" bell. Then finally the "Let us seal it in a dimebag, till the right moment" buzzer completes the transaction. Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it, eh? InedibleHulk (talk) 03:05, November 2, 2015 (UTC)

Um yeah. You're not driving, are you?--Wehwalt (talk) 03:09, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Of course not. But I'm not the only one. The other side gets just as bad. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:16, November 2, 2015 (UTC)

Federalism, Canada and USA

Are the Provinces of Canada more or less autonomous (if that's the right word) than the states of the USA? --rossb (talk) 08:54, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

See here, including the related questions shown on the right hand side. Rojomoke (talk) 12:49, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Gerald, an Old Etonian in China in the '30s

Another person from Peter Fleming's One's Company. Gerald is an Old Etonian, had "an extremely distinguished academic career, both at Eton and Cambridge", been to Mexico, reputed to have lived in a cave in Wales for a time, been a Reuter's correspondent with the Chinese armies, and was "a young man of saturnine appearance", and "His cheerfulness was as infinite as his curiosity... more completely impervious to the effects of discomfort, boredom, and delay than anyone I have ever met". DuncanHill (talk) 14:06, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

How does the Federalist system in the US distribute power among states?

Do states with more or less the same population, for example, NY and Florida with around 19 million inhabitants each, or Illinois and Pennsylvania with something more than 12 millions, have equal power? Does a bigger state have 2x power as two other states half so big each? --Scicurious (talk) 22:53, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

This was the subject of the Great Compromise, whereby one house of the national legislature was based on population and the other has equal representation.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:35, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. So what this means is that states with equal populations should have equal representation in Congress. More populous states have more votes in the House of Representatives, but not more in the Senate. So, on a per person basis, each person has roughly the same representation in the House, while those in less populous states have proportionately more representation in the Senate. StuRat (talk) 23:38, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Low population states actually have a greater representation per person than high population states. This is a facet to the Great Compromise, to somewhat curb a few big states from hogging the Congress. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 00:04, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

See Connecticut Plan. --Jayron32 23:48, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

There are also clauses that equalize power among the states. Thirteen of the fifty states, with a fraction of the total population, can block a constitutional amendment sent to the states by Congress. No state can have another formed from its territory or lose its equal representation in the Senate without its consent. If the presidential election is thrown into the House of Representatives, the vote is by states, with the one representative from Wyoming having one vote by himself, and the fifty-odd from California casting that vote by a majority ballot--Wehwalt (talk) 00:03, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

November 2

Loose railroad track

Do railroaders have any special terminology (standard or slang; I don't care which) for track that's just sitting "loose" as in this image? The whole scene was rather bizarre to me, as I didn't know that track would hold together like this when it's not in place; it looks like an upsized edition of prefabricated toy-train track, not real stuff with separate ties/sleepers, rails, spikes, etc. Scene is south-central Ohio, USA. Nyttend (talk) 04:10, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

The ties hold the rails in place. As to what's going on this picture, I'm not sure. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 06:42, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

The term used in the track (rail transport) article seems to be a track "segment".--Shantavira| 09:04, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

What's in the photo appears to be a prefabricated switch. It probably minimizes the interruption of service on the track if the switch is built ahead of time and dropped into place, instead of being built on an active track. See sections 4-48 and 4-49 here. Deor (talk) 13:26, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Rhyme/reason for US health insurance distinctions

Why are dental and vision often (if not always, as I've always seen) packaged separately from health insurance in the US? Peter Michner (talk) 14:11, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Historically, US employers offered health, vision, and dental insurance. Health insurance was considered more essential, so some companies might only offer that, while others might add in vision and/or dental coverage. So, simpler to manage if each is a different plan. StuRat (talk) 15:02, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

By "historically", you must mean after ~1950, right? Because you probably read Health_insurance_in_the_United_States#History before you posted, and just forgot to cite it, right? SemanticMantis (talk) 16:20, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I meant recent history, not health insurance in the 1700s. :-) StuRat (talk) 16:26, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Some info at Health_insurance_in_the_United_States#Supplemental_coverage. Dental and Vision are both considered "supplemental". These articles go in to a bit of the history. SemanticMantis (talk) 16:20, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

There's a distinction to be made between "normal" vision care (like exams and glasses) vs. "exceptional" vision care (such as eye surgery). The latter would typically be covered under the main health plan. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 17:05, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Who is that woman that is being mentioned by Sam Harris here?

In a debate between Sam Harris and William Lane Craig at the University of Notre Dame a few years back (2011?), Sam Harris mentions (here, or if the timestamp doesn't work try this) an academic who he says was of the opinion it was not objectively wrong of the Taliban to force women to wear the burqa (and so, it would seem to be implied since that's how that rule is enforced, to cut off their noses if they didn't), or that one could not say that it would be objectively wrong for a hypothetical culture to gouge out the eyes of every third newborn if it was for a religious reason, but that it would be ethically entirely wrong to use brain imagery to discover for example that a terrorist was lying. Can anyone tell who that woman is? Thanks. Contact Basemetal here 20:01, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

This is a transcript of the debate, which took place in April 2011. Harris reports that the academic had recently been appointed to the President's Council on Bioethics. The obvious candidate is thus Rebecca Dresser, on whom we don't have an article, but who has written various papers (here, for example) on the use of MRI scans in legal proceedings. However, this is not a positive identification. Tevildo (talk) 20:51, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer and thank you for providing the link for the transcript. In the transcript the place where Harris mentions that conversation is in his Opening Speech, paragraphs 4 to 7. Contact Basemetal here 21:56, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Der Sturmer & Der Giftpilz

Hi, does anybody know if it's possible to acquire a translated version of the May 1934 issue of Der Sturmer, with the headline 'Jewish world plan to destroy gentile humanity', it features accusations of blood libel. Also any secondary literature on the article would be useful. With regard to Der Giftpilz all that would be required is secondary literature as I've already sourced a translated version. This is part of a university project on Nazi depictions of the Jewish religion in the persecutory phase of the Holocaust if anybody's interested. Thanks in advance --Andrew 00:47, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

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