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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by My very best wishes (talk | contribs) at 18:38, 4 November 2015 (→A tip about discussion: advice). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome to Misplaced Pages!!!

Hello Flushout1999! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Below are some recommended guidelines to facilitate your involvement. Happy Editing! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:42, 30 July 2013 (UTC) Getting Started Misplaced Pages Tutorial How to edit a page The five pillars of Misplaced Pages Manual of Style Be bold in editing How to write a great article Getting your info out there Cite your sources Neutral Point of View Point of View Verifiability Uploading images Image use policy Getting more Misplaced Pages rules Policy Library Getting help New contributors' help page Where to ask a question Teahouse Help Desk Reference Desk Frequently Asked Questions Getting along Wikiquette Civility Wikipedians Conflict resolution Getting technical Pages needing attention Peer review Utilities Village pump On a final note, you may want to consider joining a WikiProject of interest to you. WikiProjects gather editors interested in certain topic areas, providing them with information, tools and a place to discuss the topic in question.I think you may be interested in Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Cold War. For a list of all WikiProjects, see here. Joining a WikiProject makes the Misplaced Pages experience much richer! Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:42, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Copyright violations

Per this comment, could you please fix your copyright violations on this and possibly other pages? My very best wishes (talk) 16:21, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I would do it with pleasure, but it is pointless at this point. There is nothing left to be fixed, users in[REDACTED] simply delete others' edits which they dislike with the excuse of Copyvio. I learned the lesson well. I'll do the same with the others. Flushout1999 (talk) 19:07, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Please stop edit warring to keep your copyright violations - as you just did in this edit . This is your last warning. My very best wishes (talk) 21:35, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually I used quotations, as usual you did not notice. If you like make the complain and see what happens, who cares. You are actually the one who initiated edit warring with the most subtle excuses, as anyone can see it here Talk:The Harvest of Sorrow. I was the one creating and nurturing that page before your arrival. I requested The Harvest of Sorrow to be blocked so, hopefully, your WP:SNEAKY will come to an end. -- Flushout1999 (talk) 21:47, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

No, you did not use quotations for the phrase I am talking about. This is your version. It includes the following phrase (without quotation mark!):

"The Harvest of Sorrow" had a clear moral: that if the older Soviet leaders were direct accomplices in an artificially contrived famine, and the younger leaders today still justify such procedure, then it followed that they might be willing to kill tens of millions of foreigners or suffer a loss of millions of their own subjects in a war.

This is practically the same text as in LA paper:

"The Harvest of Sorrow" has a clear moral: that if the older Soviet leaders today were direct accomplices in the artificially contrived famine of the 1930s, and the younger leaders still justify the procedure, then it follows that they might be willing to kill tens of millions of foreigners or suffer a loss of millions of their own subjects in a war

My very best wishes (talk) 21:56, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, and of course you think is bad faith. I'm sorry I don't remember every single thing that I posted, just go ahead and go in a noticeboard, whatever. You are just political partisans, it is evident that your main purpose is just to omitt whatever is not according to your own personal point of view that all of this is pretty ridiculous. Why don't you show me you can write those thing in the article in my place in a better form? Go in The Harvest of Sorrow and write about the funding or about this Conquest's declaration with your own words! Show me that you don't have a problem with the fact itself! Show me that you are not a poltical partisan! -- Flushout1999 (talk) 22:17, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Flushout1999, please read WP:PLAGIARISM: specifically what is not plagiarism. Supplement your reading with WP:PARAPHRASE. What you have been engaging in is consistent WP:COPYVIO despite being warned several times against copyright violation in your very short editing 'career' on Misplaced Pages. What this speaks to is your intent as an editor... and certainly does not speak well of your contributions other than that of WP:NOTHERE. I would also suggest reading WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and WP:TRUTH. I am still assuming good faith on your behalf, but I suspect that you've not had enough time and experience to understand what the Misplaced Pages project is and what it is WP:NOT. In all honesty, the learning curve in being able to put aside our own personal perceptions and predispositions is steep and difficult. I'll offer you the same advice as I have many new editors, being that it's usually best to stay away from the deep end and learn by working on uncontroversial articles in desperate need of copyediting, citation verification: basically, the mundane parts of editing. Please understand that my advice isn't intended as condescension towards you or your potential abilities as an editor. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:07, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Flushout1999, "go and write yourself" is not the answer. This is your responsibility to follow all policies, such as copyright, WP:Consensus and others. If you do not, anyone can simply revert your edits. My very best wishes (talk) 17:29, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

October 2015

Your recent editing history at Denial of the Holodomor shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:09, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

No problem, I know perfectly what is a 3RR violation. My point it was to know if this source can be considered reliable or not, and therefore be cited in[REDACTED] articles or not. You have been very clear on that saying: "Stop edit warring. The content is sourced" and you made clear that because of this it cannot be deleted (here:). So I have now your confirmation that this particular one is a reliable source which I can use on other articles. Thanks -- Flushout1999 (talk) 11:13, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

No, it does not make it WP:RS to be used in other articles. I've only confirmed that it's a WP:BIASED source. Being recognised as a biased source ≠ carte blanche to use the this source anywhere you choose to. The use of such sources is contingent on WP:TITLE, whether it is WP:DUE in other articles, and whether you are using it for the purposes of WP:POV-pushing. Judging on your WP:SPA editing patterns, what I'm seeing is a WP:POINTy agenda on your behalf. Be aware of the fact that it's clear that you're traversing the terrain of WP:ACDS articles. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:06, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes ok thanks for clarifying. -- Flushout1999 (talk) 22:17, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

A tip about discussion

You might also want to read the essay WP:BLUDGEON. Keep in mind that no matter how much you argue, you are not going to convince some people. The only way to get consensus in such cases is to state your point, once or twice, clearly and briefly. So that others can see and decide. If you spend too much time arguing with one person, others will just WP:TLDR. I am myself guilty often of violating this insight, it is a very natural thing to do. Kingsindian ♝♚ 15:01, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for this tip! I was going to answer again on Talk:Denial of the Holodomor, however it looks to me it's probably useless, neither I understand why he is not looking for better sources. If he could find something valuable he could write "according to.." etc.

I myself have nothing against biased informations as long as they are well sourced. I think it's good when it's stated clearly who affirmed something, so a reader can wonder and then understand why he affirmed that. surely I like more an article presenting many contrasting POVs but all well exposed, than an article based on omissions.

However I'm still really convinced I previously found myself in contrast with really biased/partisan users, it's not very easy in those cases to discuss politely and calmly.... -- Flushout1999 (talk) 16:10, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Most people who edit in contentious areas in WP have a strong POV, and there is nothing wrong with it, provided one is open to differing viewpoints. The area is covered under discretionary sanctions WP:ARBEE for this reason. It is almost impossible to survive on WP without having a strong POV, because you have to argue the same point over and over with people who do. Kingsindian ♝♚ 16:20, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

This is not necessarily a POV. This can be strong interest in a subject, reaction to something one believes to be misinformation (based on knowledge of the subject, which is not POV) or other motivations. Speaking about WP:BLUDGEON, I usually feel an obligation to respond and explain, especially if a question was reasonable and raised in a good faith. My very best wishes (talk) 17:57, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I feel an obligation too, but I try to fight it when I remember that other people are also involved, and their time is valuable. Not always successful, as the long back-and-forth discussion showed. I should have cut off the discussion from my end a long time ago, the first time I said it was useless to argue. Kingsindian ♝♚ 18:33, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

@My very best wishes: I believe that I have shown more than one time that I have a strong knowledge of the subjects I edited. As I said above I prefer to have the most complete and complex articles presenting many contrasting POVs but all well exposed, than an article based on omissions. In Robert Conquest and The Harvest of Sorrow I always argued that it would have been more positive to add informations instead to omitt them, I was expecting you and the others to bring additions not deletions. Someone said that my edits were WP:UNDUE, but Conquest was a man with his personal strong point of view (as he exposed here ) not a different one, you and others decided to omitt what is really unquestionable. -- Flushout1999 (talk) 18:00, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I think that many changes in your version are acceptable. However, you make changes to reflect your POV by selecting non-neutral sources and using selective quotations to justify your personal views. (that source, for example, would be fine for article The Harvest of Sorrow). Look at the first phrases in paragraphs you inserted (diff above): "He radicalized...", he "became an enthusiast of Stalin...". In addition, I think you (mis)represented his publications in open sources as a "covert publishing operation", you presented questionable claims by someone as facts ("He was also the boldest theorist of the pro-American lobby in British politics"), and you are generally trying to present Conquest as a political propagandist, rather than as a scientist and writer. Here is way forward. Try to include only the most neutral, factual and well sourced information to the page (something around 20% of your new content) and wait for reaction from other users who recently commented on the article talk page. If they agree with your changes or slightly modify them, try to add a little bit more and wait again if others agree. My very best wishes (talk) 18:38, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

DS alert

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding Eastern Europe, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Template:Z33 Kingsindian ♝♚ 16:26, 3 November 2015 (UTC)