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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by EdJohnston (talk | contribs) at 15:01, 21 December 2015 (→WP:AE notification: Warned per the AE closure). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Thanks

Hi DrChrissy, just wanted to say thanks for your participation at the ref desks! A quick glance here shows you are also very active at improving WP mainspace, so thanks for that too. I keep meaning to do more for articles, but I usually only have the attention span to make minor grammar edits, and deal with higher level stuff as one-offs at the ref desk :) SemanticMantis (talk) 00:19, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks very much for the positive message. Your stuff at the ref desk is always very informative and well written - keep up the good work! I intend to start a shake up of the Cursorial article tomorrow - I might see you there. All the best. DrChrissy 00:26, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for your edits on the cursorial thread at the ref desk. μηδείς (talk) 01:46, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

No turkey celebration in your neck of the woods?

Here in the US we welcome every opportunity for a holiday!! If it were left up to our school children, they would transpose the number of school days with the number of holidays. DrChrissy, I sympathize with what you're going through with the waves battering against your shoreline. It's erosive, even against solid rock. Sometimes the behavior I've witnessed at the drama boards reminds me a little of the book, "Cannibalism, Ecology and Evolution Among Diverse Taxa" published by the Oxford University Press. Perhaps it has something to do with the book's description per the NYT "that when animals eat their own species they are not just looking for another meal but also seeking to destroy competitors", . Granted, it's a rather extreme hyperbole, so I will AGF by saying that I can't imagine any editor who doesn't want to edit unencumbered or be shackled by mass confusion. I've also heard that when a storm moves inland, it dissipates so the best thing to do is just batten down the hatches and ride it out. Can you believe the holidays are upon us? Wow. Atsme 18:25, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

DrChrissy, I just want to add that I can very much empathize with how stressful that AN discussion must be for you, and I want to offer you my sincere hopes that you can be of good cheer nonetheless. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:53, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Both. Yes, the ArbCom situation is EXTREMELY stressful - not least because it has been totally unexpected (perhaps naively) on my part. I'm currently being very guarded about my comments about the process because I really fear they may draw unintended attention to others who do not deserve this and my comments may also cause a backlash against me. I think the worst part is the absolute silence and the apparent lack of reading of our comments and questions. It really is...well...(please insert your own words!) But I will post something about my take on the process and findings when the dust has settled. As for Turkeys in my neck of the woods - I live in a rural area (Somerset) where shooting of game birds is a popular pastime for some. I don't eat turkeys (after having worked with them under modern production husbandry systems), so I might try pheasant this Christmas. Hope you have enjoyed your Thanksgiving celebrations. By the way - have you seen that Petrarchan appears to have retired? Very worrying.DrChrissy 19:12, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I've seen that, but I had best not comment. I also saw that Guy apologized to SageRad, which is something happier. Let me presume to say some things about the ArbCom case. The way it looks for you, it will likely have two effects. One is that you will not be able to edit about GMO plants or agricultural chemicals, two subject where I suspect you really do not have many interests. (I don't know what will happen at AN, but my gut feeling is that that topic ban will be lifted.) The other is that, in the unlikely event that Jytdog comes back, he will be forced to leave you alone. Interestingly, he will be forbidden to edit about GMO animals such as that salmon, whereas you will be free to edit there, and he won't be able to say anything about your editing there. If you look at it that way, then maybe it's not that bad, although I don't mean by that to minimize the stress of it in any way. And I think that I have already made it abundantly clear that I am less than impressed by the way those in charge have handled the GMO case. As for my Thanksgiving, "I can't believe I ate the whole thing" (a catch-phrase from a long-ago US TV ad for an antacid). Truly, I hope that you are able to remain cheerful and that the near future will allow you to put all the aggravation behind you. Best, --Tryptofish (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I have just realised I misread your first posting. I thought you were talking about the ArbCom process, but you are talking about the AN process. Yes, I am also extremely frustrated about what is going on at AN. One thing I have found out about myself, and this has been with your help, is that when I am being goaded, I struggle to understand where the line is between defending myself and feeding the trolls. It is obvious that I am being goaded over there, but I have always had a strong sense of fairness, and what goes on over there is absolutely not fair. I have seriously considered withdrawing my appeal and walking away from wikipedia, but I will not do that. There is so much support for me over there that I would be letting down those people by withdrawing. I may, however, take a break from editing for a while. I just wish an Admin would step in and close it. The discussion is now not doing anybody any good - it is simply becoming another example of a rather dysfunctional process.DrChrissy 20:10, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I've had my own share of me replying many times during dispute resolution and later wishing that I had responded fewer times. It's a no-win situation, and a frustrating one. I, too, have been musing out loud on my user talk page about walking away, but I've been coming to the conclusion that what people here say about me reveals more about them than about me. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:28, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes I saw your comments and I followed what went on leading to those with great sympathy for you. I would not have blamed you for walking away and I am very glad you did not. I'm rather lacking in motivation at the moment (for some reason!) but maybe we (and others of course) should try and turn this into a positive and ensure that these processes are looked at. One idea I had was to develop an ethics committee of paid members who are not associated with WP in any other way to look at these dispute processes. Just an idea.DrChrissy 20:36, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words. (And User:Tryptofish/ACE2015.) --Tryptofish (talk) 21:17, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I agree many threads on Misplaced Pages are frustrating and unproductive because they are controlled by editors who either do not read and consider arguments opposed to their own position, or who repeatedly project shadow aspects of their own behaviour onto other editors. Responding in a thoughtful manner is a complete waste of time. And because there's no impartial centralised decision body on Misplaced Pages, there is nothing that can be done about it. There's ArbCom of course, a rather politicized body that often manages to make things worse. I like your idea of an independent paid ethics board DrChrissy, though there remains the issue of how the members of that board would be selected and held to account. --Epipelagic (talk) 21:41, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

And, in what is probably the reason it will not happen, there also remains the issue of getting the community to buy into the idea. Any RfC about adopting it would look like the worst ANI thread imaginable. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:49, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Well yes, but you are talking about trying to change the system from within the system itself. That won't happen. But other external interests have a stake in open source information. Misplaced Pages is currently the world's premier repository of open source information. This information does not belong to Jimbo Wales and the maintenance workers. It was put there, for free, by the content builders. The global push for open source information is not going away, and it is a push that is bigger than Misplaced Pages. I would think many professional bodies will be looking for better treatment than Misplaced Pages currently offers their members when they try to contribute definitive open source information. If the Misplaced Pages administration in unable to to develop some sensitivity and respect towards content development then Misplaced Pages will lose status. If the janitors remain in control Misplaced Pages is going to be increasingly bypassed as a serious project. --Epipelagic (talk) 22:38, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Hmmmm...I think DrChrissy's proposal has merit and might just fit the project if presented properly to the Foundation via the IdeaLab, . What could it hurt if he/we at least presented his idea for consideration? Atsme 22:16, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Banners

DrChrissy, you found a page that I completely forgot about - User talk:Atsme/Banners. In fact, I created User:Atsme/Banners because I couldn't find the other one! 👀 Now I know where it is and will figure out some way to merge the two. Thank you! Atsme 16:58, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

I think I found it only by following your links, so you might have a link there that you don't want/did not realise. I particularly liked the "blocks" one!DrChrissy 17:11, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

A little nonsequitur on Domesticated turkey...

Hi DrChrissy, I just wanted you to know that I'm not trying to actually remove that passage on the FAWC data. I just can't figure out what it's trying to say. As it stands, it's looks nonsequitur, is unclear, and looks like original analysis. I left (will leave) some details of what I mean on the talk page. DrAlso (talk) 20:58, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi DrChrissy, On the DT talk page I added a detailed analysis of the logic errors, innuendo, etc. in the first paragraph of the "Welfare Concerns" section. Would you like a crack at addressing it? DrAlso (talk) 08:36, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Has been addressed. By the way, it is generally considered very bad manners to ban someone from your talk page and then post to their talk page! Your message above is about article content and should have been posted to the article Talk page, not here.DrChrissy 19:02, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Anecdotal gar reports

See the link when you get a chance. It's one of the reasons I was reluctant in using the photo. I'll do some further checking on Commons. Thanks in advance... Atsme 20:23, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

I had a look yesterday and realised they were the same photos! The link has left me a little confused - are the images photoshopped?DrChrissy 17:12, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

They're probably legitimate snapshots but the concern is whether or not the ones uploaded to Commons were properly licensed by the actual copyright holder, or if they are unauthorized copies that were farmed off the internet. The images are currently on a sort of watchlist at Commons. Atsme 20:55, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

It's that time of year....

	Time To Spread Some Happy Holiday Cheer!!
	I decorated a special kind of Christmas tree in the spirit of the season. What's especially nice about the digitized version is that it doesn't need water, and it won't catch fire.
	Wishing you a joyous holiday season... ...and a prosperous New Year!! 🍸🎁 🎉
	--Atsme 22:22, 10 December 2015 (UTC)	Pure pun-ishment.

Genetically modified organisms case closed

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

1) Standard discretionary sanctions are authorised for all pages relating to genetically modified organisms, agricultural biotechnology, and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed.

2) Editors are prohibited from making more than one revert per page per day on any page relating to genetically modified organisms, agricultural biotechnology, and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed and subject to the usual exemptions.

3) Jytdog and DrChrissy are placed indefinitely under a two-way interaction ban.

7) DrChrissy is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified plants and agricultural chemicals, broadly interpreted; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed.

8) Jytdog is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified organisms and agricultural chemicals, broadly interpreted; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed.

9) Jytdog is admonished for their poor civility in relation to the locus of this case.

11) SageRad is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified organisms and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed.

12) Wuerzele is indefinitely topic-banned from all pages relating to genetically modified organisms and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed; appeals of this ban may be requested no earlier than twelve months since the date the case closed.

For the Arbitration Committee, Miniapolis 20:25, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Genetically modified organisms case closed

I have commented on SageRad's Talk page, and feel the same way towards you. My best wishes, and please don't leave Misplaced Pages. We need you more than ever. Jusdafax 05:34, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Hey

Sorry to be so blunt - but Dennis made it clear that he wanted a break from all of this. Maybe look somewhere else? — Ched :  ?  01:14, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

You deleted a polite posting of mine to another user's Talk Page! This is absolutely outrageous! How dare you! And I have just seen you are an Admin...words fail me! DrChrissy 01:31, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

...and you have just edited my Talk page again without my permission...DrChrissy 14:41, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I reverted my own comments which were ignored not responded to. I believe that is within policy. — Ched :  ?  14:50, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

@Ched: May I hold out an olive branch to you. Looking at your Talk page, you seem to be a very genuine person, and I accept that you made the deletions to protect another editor. I still think that it is wrong to simply delete another editor's comments on a third party's Talk page, but I very likely over-reacted to your doing that. Regarding my not replying to your postings here, I was following advice (given rather ironically by Trypto) to not reply immediately to posts and to count to 10 before replying. I was still counting - I am a slow counter. So, I am hoping we can both put this episode behind us and move forward to both better the project.DrChrissy 20:28, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Let me just say that I've known Ched since very close to when I first started editing, and he's a fine guy and a nice person. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:34, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

I was guessing that when you recently posted on your own Talk page. It was that posting which motivated me to calm down and offer the olive branch. I hope he accepts.DrChrissy 20:48, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

All good; I accept - and thank you. I really was sorry to be a source of stress during difficult times, and I honestly did not mean to upset you. I thought my repeated apology notes to your page might look like badgering to you, so I thought I'd remove them. Anyway - I do wish you the best. (and ty Trypto for the kind words.) — Ched :  ?  20:56, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for accepting. All is now well. And I extend our mutual thanks to our Poisson of Rocks - he deserves his tubifex worms today! DrChrissy 21:03, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If memory serves, Ched and I first crossed paths at an RfC at Talk:Urination, so DrChrissy, draw whatever conclusions you will. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:06, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I keep a jar of freeze-dried tubifex worms for the fishes in my freshwater aquarium. I reconstitute them in a watery garlic extract, and they definitely like them. Saltwater fish, however, not so much. And me, well.... --Tryptofish (talk) 21:09, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Careful

I just went through all of JzG's edits at the Seralini affair page, and there actually is no violation of 1RR, although it came close. Please don't comment on it any further, because that page is part of your topic ban, and any further comment about it is going to get you blocked. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:34, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Tryptofish is right; any further "general" discussions about things that happen on pages you're topic banned from discussing will start resulting in blocks. I've closed the WP:AN thread. The same is going to happen if you speak with other editors about these pages in code (i.e. "that editor on that page" is not going to be an adequate defense). There are lots of people who are not topic banned who can address issues on these pages if they come up. I really suggest you remove these pages from your watchlist completely, as there is no benefit to you from seeing what happens on them. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:39, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. I really thought I was OK to discuss other editor's (potential) breaches of 1RR so long as I did not mention the page or topic I am banned from. It seemed to me to be a question related to another editor's behaviour, unrelated to the protection of that page. It appears I am wrong. Thank you.DrChrissy 19:46, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Floq is exactly right. I think you get it now, but out of friendly concern, I really want to make absolutely certain that you are clear about it. It's not OK to get involved with conduct disputes within the areas of your topic bans and your interaction ban. Even if there is bad behavior in the ban areas, you cannot utter a word about it, even if you are using crafty language, and even if it is only in user talk space. It applies both to content and to conduct discussions. OK? --Tryptofish (talk) 19:58, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Yup, I understand that now. I honestly did not appreciate that nuance of a topic ban, but I do now. Thanks as usual for the cool-headed mentoring.DrChrissy 20:04, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

My pleasure, and I really hope that we both can soon get back to peaceful and worry-free editing. Cheers! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:18, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

You might want to strike or remove that comment

Its likely that the comment on JzG's section violates the GMO topic ban you are under. You might want to strike/remove it. AlbinoFerret 18:42, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

That's correct. An Arb just said so, very explicitly. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:49, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Done. Better to play safe. I have not seen the Arb's comment yet. DrChrissy 18:51, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Good, I'm glad, that was a close one. It's at the noticeboard talk page, where the Arb responded to Sage below your question. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:54, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

As a rule I would avoid commenting on noticeboards on the topic if I were in your shoes. There is an exemption in your case as pertains to animals. But odds are that any noticeboard section will involve more than that. AlbinoFerret 18:57, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Thanks both of you.DrChrissy 19:02, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

And you definitely want to strike this . That in no way, shape or form falls under the exemptions in BANEX. You're not asking for clarification or appealing the ban in the proper venue. Capeo (talk) 16:28, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

WP:AE notification

I have opened a section on you at WP:AE regarding your recent violation of your topic ban. Please comment there. Only in death does duty end (talk) 16:22, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

DrChrissy, the above AE request has been closed with a warning to you. Your post to User talk:SlimVirgin was not one of the exemptions to your topic ban permitted by WP:BANEX. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 15:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)