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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Andrew Davidson (talk | contribs) at 18:53, 4 March 2016 (→Errors in today's or tomorrow's featured picture: improve links). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Errors in the summary of today's or tomorrow's featured article

Errors in In the news

Errors in the current Did you know...

Errors in today's or tomorrow's On this day

Errors in today's or tomorrow's featured picture

"liquidier" is a rather marginal word, as indeed are "liquidy" and "liquider". I am confident that the vast majority of native speakers would use "more liquid"; if some subtle distinction is intended then I suggest it is too subtle. jnestorius 08:00, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Where in the blurb are any of those words featured please? The Rambling Man (talk) 08:49, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Just to the left of the planet in the picture, although I presume that would be hard to change. "Liquidier hydrogen" Art LaPella (talk) 10:06, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

In which case it's an issue with the image itself, not the TFP blurb. GRAPPLE 10:10, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• I agree that liquidier is not an English word. But there are more important issues with this picture. It claims to be "to scale" and so is asserting lots of supposed facts about the interior of Jupiter. For example, metallic hydrogen is not something that we know much about and the pressure required to produce it is uncertain. The supposed depth of the hypothetical layer in Jupiter's interior is therefore uncertain. The picture is also shown in false colours. The hypothetical metallic hydrogen is shown in garish red, which seems unlikely, while amusingly the Great Red Spot, which people have actually seen, is not shown in red. The picture is essentially OR not supported by reliable sources and so seems a violation of WP:V. I'm not even sure that its technical quality is as good as it might be – white on white doesn't work for several of the lines pointing to layers of the interior. Andrew D. (talk) 13:30, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• I've restored this discussion. There are definitely issues with the picture, which are errors of content and appear on the Main Page. We may not be able to modify the image at this stage, but we can take action: pull the TFP. Replace it with something that doesn't have content issues. Modest Genius 14:11, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

  Please take the error report to somewhere where the problem can also be resolved, such as WP:FPC, if you really care. In the meantime, I suppose someone like Howcheng will need to work out the best way of pulling a TFP half-way through and replacing it with another for less than a half a day, all for a rather trivial issue, in my mind. Seems like those who really are interested in helping out here should be helping out at the process areas, not just complaining about minor issues once they get to the main page. That it received unanimous acclaim at WP:FPC is a concern given the sudden outpouring of horror here by those who are so offended.... The Rambling Man (talk) 14:16, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• It was not unanimous as someone opposed, "diagram not supportd by article text". This objection was not answered. Andrew D. (talk) 14:19, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• Good one. I think you get the point. Time people started helping fix problems before they're problems. Please contribute at the appropriate candidate pages to ensure such errors don't creep through the net. Please ensure that the FP folks know this should be demoted immediately, that is if you truly care about the project. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:22, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• Whilst that would be great, the whole purpose in WP:ERRORS is to deal with errors which weren't picked up before the content reached the Main Page, like this one. We can't go back and change history, but we* can implement a temporary fix that prevents more readers being misled. *by which I mean admins watching this page, which doesn't include me. Modest Genius 14:28, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• This is a very different case. Errors in all other sections of the main page can be fixed by admins in moments, errors in pictures cannot be. And please, clarify precisely what is misleading here, just the word "liquidier" which 99% of English speakers will go "eh? Oh, "more liquid"..."? Or are you suggesting all those who supported it for FP were all also misled? As I've already said, perhaps there's a way of doing this without shortchanging another featured picture which would get fewer than ten hours main page exposure. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:42, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• While the interior is mostly a matter of conjecture, the moons of Jupiter have been observed for some time. The picture says "all features drawn to scale" but the discs of the moons seem too large in proportion to the disc of Jupiter. Compare with an actual photo (right). Such pictures with technical content should be scrutinised by experts in the field. I'm pinging Mike Peel, who is an astronomer. Andrew D. (talk) 14:39, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• As I've already suggested, please notify the FPC process and initiate a delisting discussion based on your numerous concerns. All the discussion here is going to achieve is a late pull, and won't improve this image. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:42, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• That's still a good thing. Get it off the MP first, dealing with the issues can be done at a sober pace later. Modest Genius 14:52, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• I don't see the big deal myself, as I noted above, we'll have to wait. If you actually believe there to be issues, you'd have tried to do something more practical, all of you, yet it's just so easy to make a fuss then let someone else deal with it I suppose. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:56, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• I now realise that Modest Genius has good professional experience in this field too and so we already have an expert opinion. What are we waiting for now? Is that no-one knows how to pull an FP? Isn't it just a matter of commenting out that section in the mainpage layout? The FP section spans the full width of the page and so knocking out that section wouldn't upset the page balance, right? Andrew D. (talk) 15:26, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• It would be unprecedented to actually remove the TFP section from the Main Page due to image content concerns. In fact, it's even extremely rare to replace it midway through (I have a feeling this may have been done before, but I'm not sure). Regardless, I haven't been involved with TFP for a few years now. —howcheng {chat} 17:07, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• Why replace the image? FP had their shot for today and blew it. Make that have consequences. --Khajidha (talk) 15:29, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

There seem to be:

• some minor issues with the image ("liquidier", for example, or too-white lines) that in a perfect world would have been caught earlier. If we could correct this on the fly, we would, but I don't see them as that big a deal.
• The issue of dimensions inside the planet being claimed as "to scale". But the caption clearly says this is a model, and the actual interior is uncertain, so I think that's OK too.
• The sizes of the moons, which Andrew says are not to scale with Jupiter. From poking around on NASA and Bad Astronomy pages, it appears they're probably the right size; they're all roughly similar in size to the Great Red Spot, which matches this image. I suspect the problem is they look too big to be this close; I'm reasonably sure the orbits have been significantly foreshortened for perspective, but the sizes of the moons haven't been foreshortened for perspective too, resulting in it looking wrong.

At this point, we can:

1. Do nothing
2. Replace the image with yesterday's image for the remaining 6 hours
3. Add text to the caption clarifying that planet features are to scale but moon orbits are not.
4. Up and remove the FP completely. But this seems unwise and unnecessary, especially as some kind of punishment for the FP crowd because they should have known better.

I propose either #1 or #3. Issues don't seem severe enough to remove/replace image. If I had to choose, I'd pick #1, but if other people pick #3, they should propose something to add to the caption. I'm fairly sure you aren't going to find an admin who decides to remove/replace the image over this imperfection, so you can continue to lobby for that, but it might not be a productive use of time. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:54, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

• I just took another look. Here are some more issues:

1. The image description says "everything is drawn to scale (except the aurorae)". So the aurorae are not to scale either.
2. The sources listed there are "1, 2, 3, and the wikipedia articles Jupiter & Rings of Jupiter." Of course, Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source.
3. The cloud layers are captioned as "30 miles thick". The sources provide this distance in kilometers too and that's supposed to be our usual style.
4. Under the main heading, there's some stats about field of view and x/y shifts. It's not clear what these are so I suppose they are an artifact of the "3D renderer". I went looking for similar usage out there and found a pdf which claims copyright. I suspect they got it from us as that's dated 2015. Anyway, I didn't find anything which explained the image settings and so reckon they are spurious and should be removed from the image.
5. The moons Metis and Adrastea are omitted for no clear reason. Compare with the image (right).

Andrew D. (talk) 18:52, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the last or next featured list

"Of the 256 known defenders, one previously escaped and 43 were either out scouting, or left several days earlier by taking advantage of General Santa Anna's amnesty offer to Tejanos inside the mission." Please remove the second comma. --Khajidha (talk) 16:39, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Khajidha:  Fixed — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 17:44, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

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