User talk:Toreeva - Misplaced Pages

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Welcome!

Hello, Toreeva, and Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions to this 💕. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{Help me}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking

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Can you help me: I would like to create my user name under Natalia Toreeva and also if I click on Google this User name I will be directed to http://en.wikipedia.org/Natalia_Toreeva. How I can do it? I can't find this info. Currently my User is Toreeva.

Toreeva (talk) 19:44, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

October 2014

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Boris Pasternak has been reverted.
Your edit here to Boris Pasternak was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline. The external link(s) you added or changed (http://museumprojects.blogspot.com) is/are on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Misplaced Pages. If the external link you inserted or changed was to a blog, forum, free web hosting service, fansite, or similar site (see 'Links to avoid', #11), then please check the information on the external site thoroughly. Note that such sites should probably not be linked to if they contain information that is in violation of the creator's copyright (see Linking to copyrighted works), or they are not written by a recognised, reliable source. Linking to sites that you are involved with is also strongly discouraged (see conflict of interest).
If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Misplaced Pages's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 22:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Materialscientist. I noticed that you made a change to an article, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Materialscientist (talk) 00:20, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Toreeva, you are invited to the Teahouse!

Hi Toreeva! Thanks for contributing to Misplaced Pages. Come join other new editors at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a space where new editors can get help from other new editors. These editors have also just begun editing Misplaced Pages; they may have had similar experiences as you. Come share your experiences, ask questions, and get advice from your peers. I hope to see you there! Technical 13 (I'm a Teahouse host)

Visit the TeahouseThis message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 16:19, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Natalia Toreeva

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Natalia Toreeva requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Qpalzmmzlapq | talk | contribs 02:03, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

This is not an article but my biography. I'm doing my input about art in Russia, and I need to include my name there, so people know who is writing the articles. Also it is not finished yet. I just checking how links are working, bec. this is my first try. Thanks, Natalia

March 2016

Please do not write or add to an article about yourself, as you apparently did at Natalia Toreeva. Creating an autobiography is strongly discouraged – see our guideline on writing autobiographies. If you create such an article, it may be deleted. If what you have done in life is genuinely notable and can be verified according to our policy for articles about living people, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later (see Wikipedians with articles). If you wish to add to an existing article about yourself, please propose the changes on its talk page. Please understand that this is an encyclopedia and not a personal web space or social networking site. If your article has already been deleted, please see: Why was my page deleted?, and if you feel the deletion was an error, please discuss it with the deleting administrator. Thank you. Qpalzmmzlapq | talk | contribs 03:13, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand why you want to delete? I'm looking into the same kind of the articles the artists created, so you can look at those examples: Anatoly Belkin, Mikhail Chemiakin etc.

I have moved this to a draft called Draft:Natalia Toreeva as perhaps there is notability, but when I look for online references I see none. Once you can support the page with a claim of importance, and reliable independent and substantial references on the person, then it can be considered again as an article. Most who write about themselves here are disappointed with the result, as it is usually deleted or edited. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:07, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Natalia Toreeva (March 6)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Graeme Bartlett was: This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources. The comment they left was: Also what makes this artist special enough to have a page on Misplaced Pages? The average artist does not have a page. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Natalia Toreeva and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:09, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Natalia Toreeva (March 10)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Onel5969 was: This submission's references do not adequately show the subject's notability. Misplaced Pages requires significant coverage about the subject in reliable sources that are independent of the subject—see the guidelines on the notability of people and the golden rule. Please improve the submission's referencing (see Misplaced Pages:Referencing for beginners), so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If additional reliable sources cannot be found for the subject, then it may not be suitable for Misplaced Pages at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Natalia Toreeva and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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Onel5969 12:39, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Hello User:onel5969, Thanks for your feedback on possible improvement! I will try to follow your suggestions. Thanks, Natalia T.Toreeva (talk) 18:19, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Natalia Toreeva

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. This is a notice that the page you created was tagged as a test page under section G2 of the criteria for speedy deletion and has been or soon may be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. JDDJS (talk) 19:58, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Natalia Toreeva (March 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Joseph2302 was: This submission's references do not adequately show the subject's notability. Misplaced Pages requires significant coverage about the subject in reliable sources that are independent of the subject—see the guidelines on the notability of people and the golden rule. Please improve the submission's referencing (see Misplaced Pages:Referencing for beginners), so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If additional reliable sources cannot be found for the subject, then it may not be suitable for Misplaced Pages at this time. The comment they left was: Needs more reliable sources to show significant, independent coverage, per WP:GNG. Can't see that they pass WP:CREATIVE or WP:NAUTHOUR either. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Natalia Toreeva and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
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You can also use Misplaced Pages's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Joseph2302 (talk) 10:17, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: The St. Regis Moscow Nikolskaya (March 30)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SwisterTwister was: This submission's references do not adequately show the subject's notability. Misplaced Pages requires significant coverage about the subject in reliable sources that are independent of the subject—see the guidelines on the notability of organizations and companies and the golden rule. Please improve the submission's referencing (see Misplaced Pages:Referencing for beginners), so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If additional reliable sources cannot be found for the subject, then it may not be suitable for Misplaced Pages at this time. The comment they left was: Likely too soon considering it's newly founded and this would need any additional amount of news sources overall. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

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SwisterTwister talk 04:14, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Hello SwisterTwister, I received your comment for the St. Regis Moscow Nikolskaya article, I believe, by mistake. It is NOT my article, I just corrected the grammar there, when I saw the error message there. But the article itself is not mine. I don't know the author of this article, so you might want to resend your comments to the author. Thank you.Toreeva (talk) 13:05, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Problems with upload of File:Natalia Toreeva Pantocrator 1992.jpg

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Problems with upload of File:Natalia Toreeva End of USSR 1992.jpg

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License tagging for File:Natalia Toreeva The New Beginning 1992.jpg

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License tagging for File:Natalia Toreeva New Beginning 1992.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Natalia Toreeva New Beginning 1992.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Misplaced Pages uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

License tagging for File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1999.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1999.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Misplaced Pages uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information.

License tagging for File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1997.jpg

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Speedy deletion nomination of File:Natalia Toreeva New Beginning 1992.jpg

A tag has been placed on File:Natalia Toreeva New Beginning 1992.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section F1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image is an unused redundant copy (all pixels the same or scaled down) of an image in the same file format, which is on Misplaced Pages (not on Commons), and all inward links have been updated.

Your submission at Articles for creation: Natalia Toreeva (April 15)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Tvx1 was: This submission's references do not adequately show the subject's notability. Misplaced Pages requires significant coverage about the subject in reliable sources that are independent of the subject—see the general guideline on notability and the golden rule. Please improve the submission's referencing (see Misplaced Pages:Referencing for beginners), so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If additional reliable sources cannot be found for the subject, then it may not be suitable for Misplaced Pages at this time. The comment the reviewer left was: This seems to be an attempt to promote subject. The draft appears to have been created and edited by the subject herself. T v x1 20:47, 15 April 2016 (UTC) Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

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T v x1 20:47, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Natalia Toreeva

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A tag has been placed on Draft:Natalia Toreeva, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Misplaced Pages:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

Status and Advice

As reviewing administrator, I deleted the article. The immediate question isn't notability, but promotionalism. If you want to rewritethe article, try to do it as follows:

write one or two paragraphs about her general biography , education, and any long-term appointments or positions.
List the major exhibitions in which she had works, including only those in major museums and the like., not everything possible
List those works of hers' in the permanent collection of major museums -- not local museums, or private collections. For every one of them, give a reference to a third party source to show they're in the collection.
Omit minor material: to the extent that the subject is importance, there will be sufficient without it. DGG ( talk ) 04:26, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

and yes, you can use references in both English and Russian--and you should do that. DGG ( talk ) 19:43, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1999.jpg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1999.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

File:Natalia Toreeva The New Beginning 1992.jpg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Natalia Toreeva The New Beginning 1992.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:32, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Natalia Toreeva New Beginning 1992.jpg

File permission problem with File:Natalia Toreeva Pantocrator 1992.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Natalia Toreeva Pantocrator 1992.jpg, which you've attributed to Natalia G. Toreeva. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.

If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either

make a note permitting reuse under the CC-BY-SA or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en@wikimedia.org, stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter here. If you take this step, add {{OTRS pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.

If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the file to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the file has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to permissions-en@wikimedia.org.

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If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Files lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. You may wish to read Misplaced Pages's image use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 11:37, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1997.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1997.jpg, which you've attributed to Natalia G. Toreeva. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.

If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either

make a note permitting reuse under the CC-BY-SA or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en@wikimedia.org, stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter here. If you take this step, add {{OTRS pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.

File permission problem with File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1999.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Natalia Toreeva Song of Songs 1999.jpg, which you've attributed to Natalia G. Toreeva. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.

If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either

make a note permitting reuse under the CC-BY-SA or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en@wikimedia.org, stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter here. If you take this step, add {{OTRS pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.

File permission problem with File:Natalia Toreeva End of USSR 1992.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Natalia Toreeva End of USSR 1992.jpg, which you've attributed to Natalia G. Toreeva. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.

If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either

make a note permitting reuse under the CC-BY-SA or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en@wikimedia.org, stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter here. If you take this step, add {{OTRS pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.

Talkpage ban

I'm banning you indefinitely from my talkpage, as you seem only here to self-promote, rather than building the encyclopedia. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:54, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest

Hello, Toreeva. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about in the article Natalia Toreeva, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. In particular, please:

avoid editing or creating articles related to you and your circle, your organization, its competitors, projects or products;
instead propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (see the {{request edit}} template);
when discussing affected articles, disclose your COI (see WP:DISCLOSE);
avoid linking to the Misplaced Pages article or website of your organization in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
exercise great caution so that you do not violate Misplaced Pages's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, sourcing and autobiographies. Thank you. Lemongirl942 (talk) 00:13, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

About Natalia Toreeva

Hi Toreeva. Thank you for contributing to Misplaced Pages. I noticed that you have uploaded quite a few images as well, whose copyright status is unclear. It would be helpful if you provide some information. Are you by any chance related to Natalia Toreeva? (are you Natalia Toreeva herself/a friend/family member/employer/employee/student etc.) This is important for us. You can reply here on this page. In addition, I would request you to read the Conflict of Interest notice I have provided above and familiarise yourself with the guidelines. Thank You. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 00:19, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Hello Lemongirl942, I don't understand about all questions related to the article, so only any person can write about the 'dead' person but not who are still alive? I am doing the contributions to wiki several years already in the diff. articles about Russia. Now I'm doing my input to the "Unofficial art in Russia", about the "School of Sidlin", "Sterligov Group", "Arefiev Circle", and others. I'm part of the "School of Sidlin" art group, and at that time of 1970s-1980s, this art movement was unofficial, and many artists have to emigrate, including me. I almost knew all the artists from another art groups like Sterligov, Arefiev, etc, and because many of them are died, I feel it is my obligation to show to the art world about the art Russian movement at that time, which eventually brought to fall the Soviet Union in 1991. I'm also 75 years old, and from our group we have alive 4 artists left alive, and since in Russia almost no one speak/write in English, I feel that I have to do my input. This movement is under study in art museums in Russia and abroad, and they need the information from the 'real' person who is not 'dead' yet. I'm not going to promote any person or any art group, I just want to show the names of the artists/groups and their role in the art movement of that time. If I'm doing my input in that section and you ask to give more details/references about those artists/group, how come you restricted this my article that is written to support that section in the unofficial art in Russia? I even asked the State Museum "Tsarskoselskaya Collection" who has the art works many of the artists, the permission to use their museum name in this article. So, it is more just about Natalia Toreeva, it is the art movement of 1970s-1980s. And it is shame not to give the permission to have this article in wiki encyclopedia. I agree to have some editing to the text, but to reject it, it is wrong from the art history point of view. I don't represent any art groups, I don't receive any payment from any one, I just follow my passion in art, and the history of art, specifically in Russian art, and to give any information about the Russian art at that time. It is the missing part of the history. And we have less and less artists alive who can really tell the story. For example, in Arefiev's group, only one person is still alive..

Regarding the copyrights: I included 5 drawings and I also submitted the copyright info about them. They are all copyrighted, and I sent email about any info they needed. You can verify, for example:

2016042210018206 ("The new Beginning", 1992), ...10017118 ("Song of Songs", 1997), ...10016815 ("The End of USSR", 1992),

...10015932 ("Pantocrator", 1992), 10017369 ("Song of Songs", 1999). You can verify with them about if they are looking into my emails, with copyright info, but I thought they are still busy. You can verify on their progress These drawings should not have any problems since they are copyrighted and have all the info when they were submitted to wiki.

Hope I answer on all your concerns. Hope you will see behind not the person who wants to promote the artists/group, but who wants to make the input to give the knowledge to the world about the Russian art movement of 1970-1980s. Hope you understand it.Toreeva (talk) 01:47, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard regarding a possible conflict of interest incident in which you may be involved. Thank you. Ymblanter (talk) 06:47, 30 April 2016 (UTC) Hello Ymblanter, would you check Noticeboard you recommended, I left messages there, but looks no one looking into it. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 22:32, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Improving article Natalia Toreeva

Hi! Let's talk here. I see you might be referring to this edit . A reference was removed. I can explain why. If you look at the previous sentence, it says "...she has exhibited in Russia". So this reference is supposed to support the fact that your art work has been part of an exhibition in Russia. However, when I opened the link of the reference, I only found a brief information about a museum but I couldn't find your name. It is important that the reference should talk about both your name and the exhibition; so that anyone can verify the information. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 18:44, 30 April 2016 (UTC) Hi,Lemongirl942, No, this is small deletion. I'm talking about the sections of "Museums" and "Publishing" that were in my article before someone deleted everything. If you look into other artists articles the Museums mentioned, but no Ref to them since Museums don's don't give any info that they work of an artist in their collection. I have the documents officially from the museum, but no website about it. Therefore if you look in any artist article no reference in the museum section, just list of the museums. Therefore it is important that Publishing section would be included since in the Publishing you can have the References of any published material and in my case, I included many books published with the artwork. Also, to delete the publisher's website where 3 children's book were displayed as an author and illustrator, it is good the refer. source, and I don't understand why it was deleted? So, I'm thinking that the articlr (before someone deleted all the sections) has enough references, but just need to select what is from YOUR point of view appropriate to be included in the article, but not just delete everything.Toreeva (talk) 19:26, 30 April 2016 (UTC) Also, someone in the Article includes 2 children's books which is good, but should be included 3? http://sbpra.com/nataliagtoreeva/ is the publisher's website as the ref for children's books. Again, I have all needed published websites in my article in ref. (before deleted all material).Toreeva (talk) 19:52, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Hello Lemongirl942, I would add also at least: 1) http://www.10000best.com/be2-20.htm "Reference book of the Artists Trade Union of Russia", listed 10,000 best World artists of XVIII-XXI centuries. 2) https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/2182510/ "Twenty Thousand Faces of Pasternak" book in Stanford Univ. Libraries, 1990, USA. (if you don't want to include another website where 28 libraries listed for this book) 3) http://www.encspb.ru/object/2855704621?lc=ru "School of Sidlin" and the members of this art group, included in St. Petersburg Encuclopedia (in Russian), Russia. (It is very important info. It shows Notability of the group, including Natalia Toreeva. I gave also how to read in English but you deleted it). Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 01:15, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Let us do it in little steps, because otherwise we are losing focus. I guess what we can add absolutely painlessly are the lists of films and books.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:04, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello Ymblanter, but it said if not prove Notability it can be deleted. So timing is ticking. And why don't include the Museums? Did you look into another artists articles, I gave names, that their museums don't have the Ref, but you included the museum's name there? Bec. it is impossible to have Ref in museum's record. They don't put it officially. I have official letters they took artwork into their collection, but they don't put any record on their website. Also you deleted zislin museum ref. But you can go to zislin.com and find the name there. I just gave the ref to see the Posters there. And please include 3) ref. above, where Sidlin's art group included in the St. Petersburg Encyclopedia. Please help me with this unexpected nightmare. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 12:53, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

We can not do everything at the same time, we need to start with smth. If you want to start with lists of museums, this is fine with me. Do you have reliable sources for at least some of the museums?--Ymblanter (talk) 13:34, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello, Ymblanter, I understand it. But as I explained before, Museums don't have the web including any artists, so no ref. to museums. But I have official letters from museums: Spertus, Diahilev, Tsarskoselskaya Collection, so I can send to you those official docs to your email, if you want for verification, but you can't put on Article, just name of the museums. Also, I gave the zislin's museum reference, where 2 Posters are exhibit, for their museum. Museum is in Washington. I wrote the essay, he asked me, about Marina Tsvetaeva's 8 drawings, but it is not necessary to include here. And if you would look into St. Petersburg Encyclopedia, where all Sidlin's art group is included, and click on the website to Translate the page, you can read all names in English. To be in Encyclopedia in Russia, it is already Nobility. Please let me know if you need I will send you by email the official docs from museums. But don't put them on website. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 15:39, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

No, we can not use any of those. Ideally, we have websites or printed exhibition catalogs or any other publically available documents saying that your work is in a museum. Sources in Russian are ok. Once we have it for couple of museums we can add the whole list (including those which are not sourced). If we have no sources, likely the list will be removed again as unsourced.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:51, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello again, Ymblanter, I tried to copy the letter from museum, but I can't paste it here. It does not work. Is it some tools I can send it to you? Also, did you check the references in those artists I gave you for the example (see Anatoly Belkin, Alek Rapoport, etc) to see that their Museums don't have the references with their names, just names of the museums. So how come their refer. to museums were accepted? Even for the exhibitions, not every artists would be included in the exhibition list since their catalog can't include all names participated in the exhibition. Should the role for the references, specifically for the artists be somehow corrected/reviewed? I have the original letters/docs but I can't submit them. Also, I have the books where the name is included, I can include the ISBN, but how I can prove it? I also participated for example in the book "Twenty Thousand Faces of Pasternak", and I gave you the names of the univ or public libraries who has this book, it was also accepted to the "Tsarskoselskaya Collection" museum, but still you don't include those references. Can you ask someone, if I can send those museums docs to wiki as I did the drawings, so you can look at those docs and delete them after looking into them? It should be some way to prove that they are real references. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 22:14, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

No, a letter from the museum would not help us. For the other artists, we will need to removed the lists as unsourced.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:27, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Actually, Belkin does not have a list, he hes one sentence, and it is sourced. Rapoport is more probematic, but at least one of the museums is sourced.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:30, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Additional sources

Hi Lemongirl942, Here are another webs you can look: 1) About participating in the "Apartment Exhibitions" (1977): volokhonsky.livejournal.com/605783.html?thread=6552663 ("The Map of Nonconf. art", 2008). 2) "Heroes of Leningrad culture 1950e - 1980e", allpeterart.narod.ru/geroi-kniga-incomplete.pdf "School of Sidlin" included in the book. 3) www.litmir.co/br/?b=181429&p=109 (Go down to #27 to see the cover to the book. Dovlatov Publishing, 1982, where also illustrations, but here only the Cover). Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 03:56, 4 May 2016 (UTC) Hello Ymblanter, did you look what is reference is to? Did you look for another artists like Alexander Ney, etc? My point is the references to the museums are just web to museum with their photo and description, but not to the artists names in that museum, since as I told you before, the museum does not make the publicly the list of names of the artists in their collection. But it does not mean you have to delete the list of museums without references. You might want to change your policy regarding museums. It would be lost of the important information. You can see the names in the exhibitions performed by museums, but NOT the name of the artists in their collection. And to include Hermitage (in St. Petersburg), it could be only for the exhibition, but not the collection, since Hermitage has the artwork in the collection only before 19 centuries. And if you accepted the museums for other artists, why you deleted the list of museums in my article? And why you deleted the zislin museum in Washington with the reference where 2 Posters (and more) in their collection? http://museumprojects.blogspot.com or if look into zislin.com in Rarity section to see Natalia Toreeva in their collection. Hope you will find the way to include the museums into articles about the artists. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 12:56, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I appreciate that you want to teach me Misplaced Pages policies, but I believe since this point I do not want to do anything with the article. I hope you can find someone else who would be willing to help you.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:06, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi! I had a look at some of the sources

About participating in the "Apartment Exhibitions" (1977): volokhonsky.livejournal.com/605783.html?thread=6552663 ("The Map of Nonconf. art", 2008).
This is a WP:SPS and blogs are not used as references
http://allpeterart.narod.ru/geroi-kniga-incomplete.pdf
I cannot read Russian unfortunately, but I would like some more info (like the ISBN of this book) I did find your name (in Russian) inside the book, but I need to understand the context a bit.
www.litmir.co/br/?b=181429&p=109 (Go down to #27 to see the cover to the book. Dovlatov Publishing, 1982, where also illustrations, but here only the Cover).
This is not a reliable source.

This could have worked, but there is no mention of your name here.

Could you provide the ISBN of this book? That might help us.
"Twenty Thousand Faces of Pasternak"
ISBN for this book is required. It might help us to verify and find sources
This reference may be reliable.
Could you translate this for me?
This is a biographic dictionary of Leningrad underground artists. The book itself is reliable, but unfortuately I do not have access to the contents.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:23, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
For Art works in museums, we would need secondary sources. Unfortunately that is the policy for notability. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 06:19, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

More sources

Hello both, Lemongirl942 and Ymblanter, and thanks for the lookin into it. Here is my answer for your above questions/comments and also additional input:

Book "Heroes of Leningrad culture", 2005. http://allpeterart.narod.ru/geroi-kniga-incomplete.pdf This book is about the art groups involved at that 1950-1980 time, including the "School of Sidlin" among other art groups. Try also http://www.edconroybooks.com/show.aspx?id=221190/ Or ISBN:5-94400-006-7

It seems you have been quoted in the book. But I couldn't find any other information. Sorry I do not know Russian and was using google translate. I don't think this can be included --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:12, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

"Artists of Leningrad undergraund", 2007, by L.Gurevich. The same, about the art groups includin the "School of Sidlin" articles.
Interview with Naum Sagalovsky about his first book "Vitiaz v evreiskoy shkure", where the Cover is shown from this book. What I gave you prev (go down #27) is also show this Cover, which you said you can't use, but at least they show the name who did this cover. Published in 1982 by Dovlatov publishing. (Library of Congress Catalog: 82-72264)
"Twenty Thousand Faces of Pasternak" book, Cover and illustrations. ISBN:0-93949-735-1 (In collection of "Tsarskoselskaya Collection" Museum.)

Already included in article --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:13, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

In Bibliography section: you have included 3 children's books with ISBN, but do you want to include also the Publisher's web: sbpra.com/nataliagtoreeva/ and add "writer and illustrator", etc.?

No, I think it is not necessary. "Writer and illustrator" may be included. Best to ask someone else --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:08, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Do you want add also "Filmography" section? http://imdb.com/name/nm0867965
Under Ref 5: "Peresburg-2000" which is written in Russian, but if you want to read in English, just copy without http, or copy www.allpeterart.. to Internet/google, and click on "Translate this page"
same with ref 6: www.obtaz.com/...copy and click in Internet/google to "Translate this page".
same with ref 7: http://expert.ru/...copy without http and click "Translate this page". The article in English: "Last hits".
same with ref 1: encspb.ru/object/2855704621?lc=ru, and click on "Translate this page".
in 1985: Cover and illustrations for book "The True story of Her life" ISBN:0-914-265105, Library of Congress:86-61069
1989, book "Gazanevshchina:Gazanevskaya culture about itself". If in English: copy library.tkuma.com/index,php?PGID=4&KNIGA_F=3212&RAY=0, if read in Eng, copy and then click on "Translate this page".
in 1990, Illustrations for book for International Spanish readers: "Tamberes y Cornetas" ("Drumps and trumpets"), published by MacMillan Publishing Co, N.Y., USA. ISBN: 0-8445-8310-3, printed ISBN:0-8445-8311-1. (Pages:176-185, watercolor).
1991-92: "Christmas in Russia" illustrations and both covers: https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0716608626, by World Book, Inc, Chicago, USA. ISBN: 0716608626, but inside of book, ISBN:0-7166-08928, so try both.
in 1999, "Leningrad 70e" book, includes several art groups and "School of Sidlin": http://www.worldcat.org/title/leningrad-70-e-v-litsakh-i-lichnostiakh/oclc/122329581/
1997, 3rd International Exhibition "Dialogoes" (no ISBN), Normally Russian books or catalogs don't have ISBN. But you can look at: http://www.artdialogues.narod.ru/1997.htm (in English) for this exhibition by Central Exhib. Hall "Manege".
1999: 4th International Exhibition "Dialogoes" (no ISBN), but you can look at: http://www.artdialogues.narod.ru/1999.htm (in Russian), by Central Exhib. Hall "Manege".
2001: a big book "School of Sidlin", published by Isaak Kushnir, where the paintings, articles and drawings included. ISBN:5-901751-01-9
2009, "Honoring Our Veterans" lit. journal, Illinois, USA. ISBN:978-0-9788419-3-5. https://dupagewriters.wordpress.com/veterans-journal/
2010-2014: College of Dupage exhibition: http://dc.cod.edu/prl/vol30/iss2/44/ (2 poems and 2 drawings), Illinois, USA.
in 2010, became a member of the Artists Trade Union of Russia, Moscow, USA. www.rating.artunion.ru (then go to Union of Artists, then Register of Trade artists, then click on "T"). ISBN: 978-5-904913-21-2 (Vol, XXI, 2014). Or: artunion.ru/painters/e2-17-1.htm
in 2011, included in best 10,000 best artists in the world XVIII-XXI centuries, Raiting by Artists Trade Union of Russia: http://www.10000best.com/be2_20.htm, or best.artunion.ru/best_engl.htm ISBN:978-5-904913-03-8 (Vol XVII), Russia.
2012: AWARD by "Rambunctious Review" lit. magazine, Illinois, USA. http://www.rambunctiousreview.org/2012%2C-Vol--27%2C-Money.php (Cover 1st place)

Hope, it will not take too much of your time to run those webs. I'm sure I missed something in those sections. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks to looking into it.Toreeva (talk) 02:49, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Other discussion

Hi, Lemongirl942 and Ymblanter, While I hope you are looking into webs I gave you, would you include at least one drawing. The Article looks soooo empty. The computer graphics drawing is "The End of USSR", 1992. You can type as:

File:Natalia Toreeva End of USSR 1992,jpg

Natalia G. Toreeva, The End of USSR, Computer Graphics, 1992.

Among 5 I submitted, this could be the first one to be included. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 02:34, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello, Lemongirl942 and Ymblanter, I'm not going to fight with you for it, but it is just for your info: I don't understand why you deleted all the time Category "Russian artists"? (or "Am. artists"). You are OK with the "Soviet artists", which is correct. The person who worked in 1970s is in the "Soviet artists" category, till falling of USSR in 1991. But if the person contin. to be artist after the falling of USSR, can be included as well as the "Russian artists" category, since after 1991, it is Russia now. If the person started working only after 1991, that artist could be only in "Russian artists" category. In my case, I should be included in both "Soviet artists" and "Russian artists". Just for your info. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 00:55, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Once you include "Russian women artists" and "American women artists", you don't need to add "Russian artists" and "American artists" to it. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 01:48, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Lemongirl942, I understand your logic, but "Russian women artists" is more narrow than "Russian artists". You don't need to change anything, just for your info. Also, who is going to change tag about nobility and when it will be satisfied? Are you looking into webs so you can use them for the article? Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 02:21, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi. The narrow category "Russian women artists" is a subset of "Russian artists". Adding the narrower one automatically implies that the subject is present in the broader one in Misplaced Pages. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 02:40, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Lemongirl942, logically it should work this way as you said, but for example, I checked Alek Rapoport, who is in "Russian artists" category, but I don't see Natalia Toreeva under "T', but it should as follow your logic. But I'm happy that at least you included the computer graphics drawing in to the article. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 02:54, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi. We try to add to the most specific category. Alek Rapoport is there because there is no category called "Russian Male Artists". The listings at category "Russian artists" shows those artists who are not in any subcategory. The page also shows all subcategories (like "Russian Women Artists"). So if you click "Russian Women Artists", you will find your name. This is a convention on Misplaced Pages. Once we add to a narrower category, we do not need to add to the general category. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 03:01, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Lemongirl942, OK, logically it should not be this way, since for example, if I want to see you and I don't know from your ID, if you are woman or man, so I can't find you under just "Russian artists" but it should. "Russian artists"-->"Russian Women artists". I think it should be in both sections. But it is OK, not to worry. It is small things.Toreeva (talk) 03:12, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

No, it should not be in both, because Category:Russian women artists is already a subcategory of Category:Russian artists.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:31, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello, Ymblanter, in parallel to be the artists, I'm also the Computer Scientist. From my point of view, you can't get to the deeper point without going on top level. Even looking into "Russian women artists", it said: "It includes artists that can be also be found in the parents category", which is the "Russian artists", so it is possible to include the same name in "Russian artists" (as parents) and "Rus. women artists", as subcategory. It does not do automatically, which is not your error, but someone who handles the program. That's why I added it manually. But I don't want to discuss on it, small things. I would like to concentrate more on the article, looking into the webs I submitted to you, and add step by step the appropriate the references, so the tag of unneeded "notability" would be removed. I'm already so tired from it. The world should work on healing not killing. I want to you positively help me with this article, so I can concentrate on other things. Also, would you check in the References (#9), the word "smena" is in red, so it is possible you need to go inside and delete ] around it. I can check it myself, but you don't give me permission to go inside. Just try to fix it. "smena" is the name of the newspaper. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 16:04, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

It is ok that it is a redlink, someone sometime will create an article about the magazine.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:07, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Ymblanter, article itself is OK. Just thinking if you put ] around "smena" inside, meaning wiki has it, but obviously not, so your article can be readable, just if you delete ], red link will be deleted. Just would try. But it is OK, if you think it is OK. Another note you may missed. Some artists include the "Hermitage" has their art work in their collection. It should not be true. The exhibitions YES, but take into the collection, NO, since the Hermitage collect only work of 19 centuries. Just for your info. Thanks. Toreeva (talk) 16:20, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

The Hermitage definitely has 20th century works, though I am not sure about the work of artists you mentioned. If the statement can not be confirmed by reliable sources, it should be removed.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:23, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Ymblanter, I don't want you to delete anything from those artists just because the collections in the Museums can't be verified. But if you have time would you check each web I submitted, and if agree to add the path into Article, so I can see it moves somehow, even slow. And thanks for your time. Yesterday was the Mother's day in America, and today is the "Day of Victory" in Russia, the biggest holiday in Russia, about the victory during WWII, so each family has something related to it. Just for your info. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 16:40, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

I am afraid I have to unwatch the page and stop responding. Just for your info. Sorry, I can not stand it anymore.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:41, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Ymblanter, No problem. And thanks for any help.Toreeva (talk) 16:46, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello, Lemongirl942,

for the References of my Membership of DuPage Writers Group, can you check our presentation of the "Honoring Our Veterans" journal in Midwest Shelter for Homeless Veterans, 2010: https://dupagewriters.wordpress.com/veterans-journal/
for museums also there: https://dupagewriters.wordpress.com/local-authors/ and in the Publisher's website: http://sbpra.com/nataliagtoreeva/

Please let me know if it's OK and can be used for the References. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 22:55, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Sorry, these are blogs. They are considered as WP:SPS. I would suggest you read Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources as it contains useful information about reliable and independent sources. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 05:59, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Lemongirl942, I specifically asked them if their web is blog, and if I can send their name to you, and they told me it is officially website for the Writer's group of this DuPage county, and NOT blog. They published lit. journal, where they normally put bio of each author, including the artwork in museums, but the content is not on web, so I thought it would be helpful to you these webs I found. And it shows I'm the Member of this Writer's group, as a writer and artist. Also sbpra.com is official Publisher's web, also not blog. Did you have a chance to verify my ref. I sent to you in my prev. message to you (above)? Would you include if you found ref. OK to include into the article, so I can see the progress, at least step by step? For example, College of DuPage exhibition (dc.cod.edu.. see above), so you can include as exhib. in USA.. They are not blog.. And what about ISBN you asked me to submit for the books? Are you looking into it or just rejecting? I need to see some progress on this Article. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 12:25, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Misplaced Pages has a criteria for including info in articles. One of them is that the info should be verifiable and that secondary independent sources should have talked about it. So for any information which should go in the article, there should be some reliable secondary sources. If the membership of the DuPage Writers Group needs to be included, there should be some secondary independent sources talking about it (for example, newspapers). If no newspapers/reliable sources are talking about it, then the information is not notable enough to be included in the Misplaced Pages article. Please note that Misplaced Pages is an enclcopaedia, and only the most notable information should be included. There needs to be at least 1 secondary citation for any information to be included. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 15:51, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi,Lemongirl942, it is non-sense to me to see the membership in newspaper, no one put it anywhere but in their website. This is just reason for you to reject any info if you want to reject it. Regarding Museums: in Publisher's web: http://sbpra.com/nataliagtoreeva/ they also mentioned the museum where these 3 children's book were accepted, so they are 2 sources now, but you still don't want to accept the museums. I just sent the message to our President of DuPage Writers Group, that you rejected the info, and she is willing to send you email to prove that info is reliable, because they saw my official docs about the museums. But I told her, that you are not accepting emails. How she can prove it to you? And what about ISBN books you asked to give you the numbers? Are you still looking into, ot you rejected them also? Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 16:48, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Only notable information is included in the article. Your membership of DuPage Writers Group would be there in the article, IF "DuPage Writers Group" itself was a notable writers group. At the moment I do not see that "DuPage Writers Group" is a notable group. There are no newspaper articles about "DuPage Writers Group". --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:29, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Could you also show me the Teahouse post where the editor said that an article about a Soviet artist who emigrated to US would be automatically notable? --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:31, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello Lemongirl942, You can look for DWG (DuPage Writers Group) in at least 3 places, as I received this info from our DWG editor:

(about our President of DWG in newspaper) http://www.dailyherald.com/story/print/?id=81301
http://www.chicagowriters.org/resources/ (where DWG is a part of the Writers groups in Chicago)
http://www.cslibrary.org/friends (Carol Stream Public Library)

Regarding Teahouse: this discussion was under different Talk page, where 2 persons told that my article should not have nobility problem, so they told I need to clean just the text, and this discussion was deleted. But you can ask the Teahouse about nobility for the artists emigrated from USSR, as I'm. But anyway, since my work in museums, it should satisfy nobility.

While you are in http://www.cslibrary.org/friends on the right side you can type "Toreeva" (in English) to see my books there:

#1-3: My 3 children's books
# 4: "The True story of her life", 1986 (cover and illustrations)
# 5: "Possibilities" journal by DuPage Writers Group, 2014
# 7: "Transformation", my computer graphics on exhibition in College of DuPage, Illinois, USA
# 8: "Art Connection", poem in College of DuPage
# 9: "To Be or Not to Be", poem in College of DuPage
# 11: "Embrace in the Rain", drawing, College of DuPage

If you are still in http://www.cslibrary.org/friends click on the right side in Russian language "Тореева" to see another book:

#2: "Vitiaz' v evreiskoi shkure" (cover and illustrations), by Naum Sagalovsky, Dovlatov Publishing, 1982.

Or you can try to go directly to worldcat:

https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=Toreeva&qt=Search_items&search=Search (Hope you will see the books also there) I gave you already ISBN for them.

Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 15:47, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, my own personal evaluation is that the DuPage Writers Group is not notable. This is because there are many local writers groups. When we add content to article, we go by WP:WEIGHT. From what I have seen, the group only has 1 reference in the newspaper Daily Herald (Arlington Heights) (which you just pasted). I would have expected more coverage (at least some national coverage). --Lemongirl942 (talk) 03:18, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

If you don't mind, could you ask for a second opinion at Misplaced Pages:Teahouse? The editors there are more experienced than me, so they may be able to evaluate better. Since Misplaced Pages is like a peer review process, the more people making a decision, the better it is. You can also clarify the reference issues there. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 03:21, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Lemongirl942, Can you ask? I'm so exhausted, I don't know what you want to ask? Our State Illinois has different parts/towns, so they have diff. writers groups, so our Writers group is in DuPage County. I don't understand why it is the problem? Did you see the Carol Stream library who has DuPage Writers Group there?Toreeva (talk) 03:29, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

It is best if you ask since I have already given you my opinion. Misplaced Pages is like an encyclopaedia. We only include selective information which has enduring notability. A membership in a local writers group is not notable enough to be mentioned in the article (unless I see evidence that the writers group has done something notable which has been covered widely in national media). Please also remember that Misplaced Pages is not a resume. Every information about an individual is not going to be there in the article. (For example the article about Sidlin is quite brief here ]). It is best if you ask at the Teahouse. I am willing to accept the suggestions over there. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 03:36, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Lemongirl942, You made my life harder than should be. As the editor, it is easier for you to ask their opinion.. Did you check the books you asked me to give the ISBN and I gave you above the web under Carol Stream library to see these books. Is it satisfy you to include them to the References?Toreeva (talk) 03:56, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Lemongirl942, did you have a chance to check books I gave you above and easy find in Carol Stream library web? Or you just want to move me to someone else for the editing? I gave you both: website and ISBNs. Also did you look into 1997 and 1999 "Dialogues" exhibitions? I also gave the path above.Toreeva (talk) 04:20, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm finding it hard to verify some of the stuff. Which is why I recommend you to ask at the teahouse for verifying these sources User talk:Toreeva#More sources. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:22, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

OK Lemongirl942, Good luck to you in editing other articles. What is the disappointment. I need to start over in explanation again. But thank you anyway for your help.Toreeva (talk) 04:29, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

You can simply ask them to have a look at this section User talk:Toreeva#More sources. I don't think there would be a need to explain everything. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:31, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Lemongirl942, I don't know where I can find them, I'm not familiar with the wiki.Toreeva (talk) 04:34, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Here's the link to the teahouse WP:THQ. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:36, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Help me!

{{help me}} I need your help with the Article: Natalia Toreeva. I submitted the article and almost everything was deleted. There are only 2 lines left, but the article got tag of notability. Before I submitted this article someone from Teahouse wrote that since I'm an artist and emigrated from Soviet Union to USA, it should be automatically put this person as notable. Also, your editors who is verifying the reliable sources, do they have the knowledge in Art, specifically in Russian/Soviet art? My art work is in museums, and I gave the names of museums, but it was deleted since there are no references to the museums. I looked into other artists articles for the guidelines, and no one has the references, but still were accepted. My point is that Museums don't put the name of the artists in any websites, since they don't create webs for this purpose, they will not make a list with thousand of artists whom they have artwork. I have an official documents, and the Writers Group saw them and included in their website. Today I got a message from the editor that it can't be accepted because, it should be somewhere else. I'm the member of this Writers Group, so what newspaper should be used as the secondary prove that I'm the member of this Writers Group? Non-sense to me. Also, I gave the info about the exhibitions and published books with my illustrations, some of them accepted in Museums, abd the editor asked me to give the ISBN number, and I did, but still the article does not add any resources, and since there are no Museums in the list, or participation in the exhibitions, or publishing, this tag will follow this article. I sent email to the President of DuPage Writers Group that their website was rejected as the blog, and she is willing to send any email regarding the references to my Membership in this group and the list of museums, but I told her you will not accept any emails. So how in another artists (from Leningrad, USSR) they have the lists of museums, but you reject my list? How come my work in the Lenfilm film studio before my emigration from USSR was deleted, and my Filmography section was deleted? I just try to understand how notability be proved if all important section were deleted? I'm participating with my input to the Unofficial Art in Russia Article, specifically about St. Petersburg in Russia about 1970-80s, since I was a part of that movement and the history needs this input, but how I can continue it if the article Natalia Toreeva has only 2 lines and tag of notability under question? Please help me with... the article Natalia Toreeva, and if you have someone with the art knowledge who understand that you can't have any record in museums for the verification that museum has any art work of that person. To have the official document should be enough for acceptance. The ISBN numbers also should be enough, or sentences in the book about this person. You can't find the name of that artist in newspaper, since it was unofficial art at that time, and if the name will get to newspaper, he/she could be jailed. That's why many artists were forced to emigrate. I don't want to include any political statements here, but without understanding it at that time in Russia, the real life of the artist(s) can't be described her. So, please help me with re-install notability with the article, and include the importance of the sections into the article, as Filmography, Museums, exhibitions, publishing, etc. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 19:43, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Toreeva (talk) 19:43, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Natalia, as per your many, many, other user page notices, writing articles about yourself is almost prohibited. There is no wiggle room. While I understand that many museums do not post their exhibits online, and I understand that an email is offered, unless credible information is available, and someone else writes the article, we CAN NOT publish it. I am sorry. That's the rules. CoolCanuck

Hello CoolCanuck, if you look into Article (Natalia Toreeva) itself, it is written by someone else, not by me. My article what I submitted was deleted and this article I'm talking about has only 2 sentences. Email is offered by President of DuPage Writers Group where I'm the member of this group. So membership should be included in the Article in my opinion. They also saw the original document from Museums, so my children's books and the names of museums included on DRW web :https://dupagewriters.wordpress.com/local-authors/ So, this web is not blog and reject the info about that I'm the member of this group, and the names of museums they have my art work is the reliable sources, since they saw my orig. documents. That's why the President wanted to send you her email to discuss it. My point is to remove the notability tag, since the info about museums, publishing, exhibitions were deleted from the article. I have those info (see above) to verify and include into the article, so notability would be restored. And why not to verify my another membership in the Art Union of Russia, where they put me in the best 10,000 artists in the world (XVIII-XXI centuries): http://www.10000best.com/be2-20.htm Just to their web and click on T. Thanks for your reply, even though you did not see that the article is written by someone from the editor, not by me. And if you are not familiar with the art, please move on. I'm asking for help to improve the article and not for critique it. Looks it is easier to critique, then willing to help. Toreeva (talk) 01:59, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Hello Theroadislong, I saw that you put into my article the tag of notability. And also it looks you have knowledge in art related articles. So would you help me to improve the article, so your notability tag would be taken off. Please look into my input to verify the references I submitted above in the "Improve" section, and also the names of museums mentioned in the above input as well. If my references would be verified and satisfied to be included in the article, I believe that your tag of notability would be taken off. Please help me to improve the article. I don't understand why my education section (I have 2 masters degrees: MA (in art and design) in USSR and MS (computer science) in USA), my Filmography section (I worked as the costume designer in Lenfilm film studio in Russia), my illustrations in the books, my partic. in exhibitions, and my art work in museums, etc were deleted from the article. Only 2 lines are left with some references. So, would you check what could be added to satisfy the notability. I received previously from the member of Teahouse that because as an artist and emigrated from USSR, I'm automatically qualify for notability, so I was surprised when I received your tag. Please help me to improve the article. Thanks.Toreeva (talk) 03:31, 12 May 2016 (UTC)