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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lithuanianlady (talk | contribs) at 16:57, 20 October 2016 (→Proposed content on humanitarianism). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Biography Start‑class

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Slanted

This biography appears to have been written by someone who had a beef with Donald Gary Young and most of the info is quite slanted. Some of the cited information sources have very little to no credibility. What is the best course of action for correcting the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aulonocara (talk • contribs) 18:47, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

The first step to find reliable sources, specifically secondary sources which are independent of Young and Young Living. The usually rules out press-releases and promotional material. If you are involved with Young Living, you should also read about having a conflict of interest. Grayfell (talk) 20:18, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

There is some information in this article that I believe falls into WIkipedia's policies on Biographies and disparaging remarks. The section about Young's daughter drowning during child birth seems to be in conflict with the policy on prolonging the victimization. In addition, the section about Young being arrested for practicing without a license seems to be in conflict with the policy on a living person being innocent until proven guilty of a crime and convicted by a court of law. There is no record or Young ever being convicted.--Aulonocara (talk) 18:32, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

I've adjusted the wording of the criminal conviction. According to this source, he was convicted and sentenced to a sixty-day suspended sentence, a fine, and one year probation. It also says there was an outstanding bench warrant out for him for violating that probation, but details are sketchy enough that I'm not sure how or if we would include that. WP:AVOIDVICTIM is mainly people notable for only one or two events, which is not the case here, but regardless, it's not intended to be a rationale for omitting important factual information just because it's unfortunate. Avoiding victimization means that such info needs to be handled with care. The paragraph factually describes events which are significant to both his personal biography, and his professional history as a medical personality. Can you figure out a way to rephrase this to be more respectful without removing any important details? Grayfell (talk) 22:11, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Here are the proposed edits to the section to make it more respectful yet continue to retain the important information. I asked a 3rd party to write this to insure that there was no problems relating to the policy on conflict of interest...

In 1982, Young experienced the tragedy of losing a child. During a water birth, Young’s baby girl died from oxygen deprivation. While the practice of water birthing is more widely accepted today, in 1982 Washington State health department caseworkers and prosecutors had threatened the Young’s with prosecution if they attempted a water birth. In Young's case, authorities ruled the entire case as accidental. However, Washington State authorities continued to target Young as a part of an ongoing initiative against any non-licensed medical practitioners.

Initially, law enforcement officials sent a woman undercover to convince Young to help with a water birth. With the tragedy of his daughter's death recently in his mind, he refused to help her or anyone else carry out a water birth. Unable to force him to do a water birth, she convinced him to start discussing prenatal care. She also told Young that she had a mother dying from cancer who needed help. After he tried to help the woman out, she revealed that she was an undercover officer. Washington state police later arrested Young for practicing medicine without a license, a charge in which Young pled guilty to.​Aulonocara (talk) 15:54, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages articles use neutral language and avoid euphemisms. That the child's death was a tragedy should be obvious and can remain unstated. That may seem clinical, but this is an encyclopedia, and that's part of writing with a formal WP:TONE. The section also included too much editorializing language. We cannot possibly know what was on Young's mind then or at any other time, so we must state facts, or for unverifiable content such as opinion, we can quote statements from experts with clear attribution. Grayfell (talk) 22:28, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Can you tall me some specifics on what wasn't approved with the last edits? We simply revised the content to make it cover just the facts and be more respectful to Mr. Young. The way the article is currently worded makes it come off as being negatively biased towards Mr. Young, which seems to me as being against Misplaced Pages's policies on keeping a neutral tone. It seems pretty obvious to me that the original author intended to attack Mr. Young's reputation by only highlighting controversial information in Young's life and doing it in a disrespectful manner.Aulonocara (talk) 18:22, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

@Aulonocara: Hello. When you say "we", I need to tell you that Misplaced Pages accounts should not be shared. Please carefully review Misplaced Pages:Sock puppetry, especially WP:ROLE, and confirm that you understand, and that your account is limited to one person. This is important.

As for your comments, information must be supported by reliable sources. Many of the specific details you added were not supported by the attached sources. This is a problem for several reasons: it misrepresents the sources, and it also goes against Misplaced Pages's policy of verifiability. Comments about the relative commonness of water birthing in Washington were editorializing. By introducing subjective opinions as facts, you are creating an emotional impression of Young's behavior which is not supported by an impartial assessment of the sources. Although water-birth might be slightly more common, it's far from mainstream, and by implying that it's now considered normal, you're downplaying the specifics of the incident, such as that it was not held at a facility designed for such procedures.

Since Young is a medical professional, this information is biographically significant. If you can articulate how this is disrespectful, that would help, but describing it as such doesn't give an editor free rein to remove or alter sourced content.

Again, please confirm that you have read about sock puppetry, and that only one person is using this account. Grayfell (talk) 18:38, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, when I said "we" I was referring to having a third person writer with no affiliation to Gary Young, write the edits, which I then posted with my account. Only one person has access to using this account.Aulonocara (talk) 19:41, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

That still appears to be account sharing to me, and it just raises more questions. Why are you not writing your own contributions directly? Why doesn't this person create their own account? Does that mean that you have an affiliation with Gary Young? If so, having another person write your contributions still means you have a conflict of interest. You alone are responsible for edits made by your account. Grayfell (talk) 20:08, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

I see your point on conflict of interest and account sharing. My only desire with editing this article is to make it more neutral. Right now it just focuses on the negative and controversial events from Mr Young's past. I am the only one that uses this account, but I do get another person to write the edits because I wanted it to be completely neutral as to avoid it potentially being in conflict with the policy on conflict of interest. Additionally, I have web development experience and am more familiar with editing articles on Misplaced Pages. So the article is written by a professional writer with no affiliation with Gary Young, and then published by me. Perhaps the solution to the negative focus of this article is not to try to change it, but to add more to it, so that it doesn't just focus on the controversial events in Mr. Young's past.Aulonocara (talk) 18:33, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Okay, do you see my point, though? Are you saying you will stop sharing your account? You should only publish what you write. Hiring a professional writer (!) makes your COI problems worse, not better. If you do not agree to stop this behavior, I will bring this account to a noticeboard for wider attention.

Trying to add more to this article just to change the supposedly negative focus would be false balance. Content should only be included based on reliable, independent sources. WP:PRIMARY sources should only be used for non-controversial details. If you know of reliable sources which discuss Young, but are not affiliated with him or his companies, then please link them here for discussion. Grayfell (talk) 22:13, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Ok I see what you are saying about only using the account to publish content that I have personally written. I'll agree to your request and will only use my account to publish my own content, written by me.Aulonocara (talk) 23:53, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Proposed content on humanitarianism

The content below added by Lithuanianlady is one instance of humanitarian activity insufficient to substantiate it to be included in the article per WP:UNDUE. More rigorous secondary sources are needed to confirm Young's supposed humanitarian activity per WP:SECONDARY. --Zefr (talk) 16:49, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Donald Gary Young and a Japanese team distributed warm clothes and blankets to the quake victims of the April 25, 2015 earthquake, and reached more than 150 households in Yarsha Village who struggled to find shelter and warmth, reaching the Mirge Village Development Committee-9 of Dolakha District.

    3 references were added regarding this material, all 3rd party sources. Zefr is taking off material that is correctly cited and sourced.

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