This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2601:3c2:8003:c920:2532:35f8:671f:d416 (talk) at 06:36, 14 December 2016 (→User: Sleyece; Comments, Concerns, and Feedback). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 06:36, 14 December 2016 by 2601:3c2:8003:c920:2532:35f8:671f:d416 (talk) (→User: Sleyece; Comments, Concerns, and Feedback)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Historical rankings of presidents of the United States article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Historical rankings of presidents of the United States article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Scholar survey results references
Where are the references for the Scholar survey results section ? Shouldn't references be cited for each ranking poll ? I believe the C-Span 2009 rankings and the Siena College 2010 rankings have been removed from their repsected websites. Cmguy777 (talk) 17:22, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
User: Sleyece; Comments, Concerns, and Feedback
I made many edits to the table. Notably, I changed the aggregate to a "frequency of position" system, in which a number of ties result, but I feel a much more accurate representation of the overall dataset is represented. What do you all think? I also limited the table to 15 positions, so that data will fit on the web page. I added, with appropriate citation, a recent "538" poll to the dataset for 2016. If possible, I think the table should be updated annually, with citation, from here on in. What do you all think about these adjustments? Thank you all for your understanding and diligence! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sleyece (talk • contribs) 07:12, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
Do not make such massive changes without discussion. Furthermore, your new table is seriously flawed. Not only does it remove the aggregate, which we already discussed and agreed to leave in, but you completely deleted Barack Obama's rankings from the table. I'm restoring it to its previous form. Feel free to add the 538 poll to the table, but don't just make such radical aldjustments without discussing it here. As for the annual update, it sounds good, though I'm concerned about the feasibility of updating it every year. Anasaitis (talk) 00:26, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
The aggregate has been discussed, and it has been continually pointed out as statistically flawed. I also removed ALL incumbent ratings. President Obama is not currently ranked because he has never been an Ex-President. Sleyece 00:03, 01 December 2016 (UTC)
Yes, the aggregate has been discussed, and it was agreed that it would stay. I see nothing in the relevant discussion which suggested it was statistically flawed. Also, why would you remove the incumbent ratings? This table covers everything In the surveys, and some of the cited surveys included the incumbent President. You cannot just delete parts of the table like that. If it's in the cited material, then it should be included here. Anasaitis (talk) 07:25, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
I appreciate your opinion. Let's hear from some other users. Sleyece 08:51, 01 December 2016 (UTC)
Also, "Anasaitis," I know gaslighting when I see it. The aggregate was discussed, and YOU decided it would say. I appreciate your opinion less now. Sleyece 09:49, 01 December 2016 (UTC)
"Gaslighting"? I don't appreciate your insulting accusations. I also don't appreciate the fact that you have taken it on yourself to completely restructure the table without discussion. We do agree on one thing, however: this should be discussed with other users. I think this should be done BEFORE any radical changes are made to the content of the table. Anasaitis (talk) 22:40, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
If we continue to have a dispute about our edits, perhaps we should seek conflict resolution, @Anasaitis:? I am adamant that all polls on the table AND that the table actually fit on the page. I think a page this important should eventually be a featured article. We can't achieve that if our data isn't even formatted to the standard page width? Can we agree on that as a baseline? --Sleyece 08:32, 09 December 2016 (UTC)
Since you asked for other users' opinions, I'm inclined to agree with Anasaitis. The incumbent rankings should remain. Obama may not have completed his term when they ranked him, but the cited surveys did rank him and you can't ignore that. The aggregate should stay at least until there's a consensus on removing or replacing it. In the meantime, I'm reverting the page to the 9 December version. 2601:3C2:8003:C920:2532:35F8:671F:D416 (talk) 03:27, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
Sleyece reverted my edit without explaining why, and it doesn't look like anyone here agrees with him so I changed it back. I don't think his changes should be made until there's some kind of consensus for them, but I only edit sporadically so I'm not really sure how to handle this situation. 2601:3C2:8003:C920:2532:35F8:671F:D416 (talk) 06:36, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
Trump
Why are there rankings for Trump when he hasn't even taken office yet, let alone been included in any historical surveys? -70.162.247.233 (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
I suspect someone was trying to add another row for Trump, though they seem to have failed to format it properly. I undid those edits. Someone can readd Trump when a survey with his name comes out. 104.35.40.176 (talk) 05:20, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for removing that edit, although I don't see why Trump cant be on the table with a blank row. --Sleyece (talk) 09:03, 09 December 2016 (UTC)
It's not a big deal, but I don't think Trump should be included until inauguration 2601:3C2:8003:C920:2532:35F8:671F:D416 (talk) 03:29, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
Article very out of date
There are polls in here from 2005 up to 2011 that mostly focus on George W. Bush. We're almost two presidents away from Bush now, more than 8 years. Needs more current polling within at least the last 6 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.254.16.183 (talk) 21:50, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
2005, are you kidding me? I'm pulling teeth here to drop a poll from 1948! --Sleyece 00:03, 01 December 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.1.137.30 (talk)
2013 Gallup poll, weighted averages
The weighted averages strike me as odd, placing Barack Obama only in the third-last position. Compare this with Carter, who had a more negative reception, and Bush sen., who had a similar amount of critics in this poll but much more indifference towards his term.
I don't know what formula was used for the weighting, but assigning values from 1 to 5 for "Outstanding" to "Poor" (ignoring "No Opinion") gives me very similar results (smaller deviations might be due to rounding) in all but four cases:
| President | Outstanding | Above Average | Average | Below Average | Poor | No Opinion | Average in Article | Calculated Average |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dwight Eisenhower | 10% | 39% | 36% | 2% | 1% | 12% | 2.11 | 2.10 |
| John F. Kennedy | 18% | 56% | 19% | 2% | 1% | 4% | 2.02 | 2.00 |
| Lyndon Johnson | 4% | 16% | 46% | 14% | 8% | 12% | 2.73 | 2.75 |
| Richard Nixon | 3% | 5% | 27% | 26% | 33% | 6% | 3.43 | 3.74 |
| Gerald Ford | 2% | 14% | 56% | 15% | 5% | 8% | 2.86 | 2.85 |
| Jimmy Carter | 4% | 19% | 37% | 20% | 15% | 6% | 3.11 | 3.12 |
| Ronald Reagan | 19% | 22% | 25% | 13% | 19% | 2% | 2.30 | 2.87 |
| George H. W. Bush | 3% | 24% | 48% | 12% | 10% | 2% | 2.96 | 2.95 |
| Bill Clinton | 11% | 44% | 29% | 9% | 6% | 1% | 2.55 | 2.52 |
| George W. Bush | 3% | 18% | 16% | 39% | 23% | 1% | 3.45 | 3.59 |
| Barack Obama | 17% | 31% | 27% | 13% | 11% | 1% | 3.28 | 2.68 |
At first I suspected tampering, but those averages have been unchanged since they were introduced. Now, I don't want to accuse anyone of falsifying the numbers to make a point, but the direction of these differences are somewhat suspicious. Though it is debatable whether we should include these averages at all. I didn't see them in the Gallup article, so these might fall under WP:OR. Don Cuan (talk) 04:41, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
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