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    Click here to add a new enforcement request
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    See also: Logged AE sanctions

    Important informationShortcuts

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    CatapultTalks

    CatapultTalks (talk · contribs) is hereby banned, for 3 months, from editing any and all pages regarding post-1932 politics of the United States, and closely related people, broadly construed. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 10:27, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning CatapultTalks

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:35, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    CatapultTalks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2#Enforcement :WP:ARBAP2:
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    Starting with most recent

    1. Feb 19 Restoring material which has been challenged via reversion (material was added Feb 17 )
    2. Feb 17. Restoring material which has been challenged via reversion . Note that the original text was inserted by CatapultTalks with a misleading summary (WP:AVOIDVICTIM is suppose to protect BLP subjects - it's not an excuse for victimizing them as CT's edit summary implies)
    3. Feb 15. Restoring material which has been challenged via reversion . Note that this is also an attempt to restart a previous edit war after failing to obtain consensus or even discuss on talk.

    Previous:

    On Immigration policy of Donald Trump - This page is under a 1RR restriction due to discretionary sanctions of which CatapultTalks has been made aware

    1. Feb 5, 7:59 (arguably not a revert)
    2. Feb 5, 18:06 (revert)
    3. Feb 6, 6:26 (revert)
    4. Feb 7, 19:12 (note misleading edit summary)
    5. Feb 8, 16:24 (revert)

    Depending on how you count it that's either three or two 1RR violations.

    On Executive Order 13769 - This page is under a 1RR restriction due to discretionary sanctions of which CatapultTalks has been made aware

    1. Feb 4, 22:38 (revert)
    2. Feb 4, 23:15 (revert)
    3. Feb 5, 8:09 (revert)
    4. Feb 6, 6:13 (substantially changes the meaning of the sentence which makes it a revert)
    5. Feb 6, 20:24 (revert)

    This is at least four 1RR violations and pretty close to a straight up 3RR violation

    On Social policy of Donald Trump - This page is under a 1RR restriction due to discretionary sanctions of which CatapultTalks has been made aware

    1. Feb 1, 22:37 (substantially changes the meaning of the text which makes it a revert)
    2. Feb 2, 7:01 (substantially changes the meaning of the text which makes it a revert)

    Then

    1. Feb 5, 7:56
    2. Feb 5, 16:44 (resumes previous edit war)
    3. Feb 6, 17:02 (revert)
    4. Feb 6, 17:42 (revert. There is another edit by CatapultTalks in between the 17:02 and 17:42 one which could also be seen as a revert)
    5. Feb 6, 20:02 (if this isn't a revert (it is) then the edit immediately following this one is)
    6. Feb 6: 22:30

    So that's a few more 1RR violations and a 3RR violation.

    In addition to the persistent edit warring several of these edits violate the discretionary sanction which states: " All editors must obtain consensus on the talk page of this article before reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion). If in doubt, don't make the edit." Several of CatapultTalks' edits have been challenged by several users via reversion, yet he persists in restoring his preferred version without much discussion, much less bothering to get consensus.

    See this previous 3RR report which was closed with "Report_should_be_made_at_WP:AE.2C_which_is_the_appropriate_forum_for_any_Discretionary_Sanctions_violations" (personally disagree, violating 3RR and 1RR is violating 3RR and 1RR, discretionary sanctions or not, but here it is)

    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

    I think I really bent over backwards with this user. Here is the first notification. Here is the second notification. Here is the third and formal notification by User:Coffee. Here is the fourth notification. And here is one last ditch attempt to try and get the user to listen and actually make a pretense at observing the discretionary sanctions restrictions: Fifth notification.

    Pretty much the response the whole time has been "I'm right, you're wrong, take it to the talk page" (of course CatapultTalks didn't bother taking anything to the talk page themselves)

    Note that CatapultTalks' reply here sort of encapsulates the problem - he violates 1RR, 3RR and other discretionary sanctions and when you bring that up to him he tries to argue about how his edits were legit (on his own talk page, rarely on article page) and refuses to stop edit warring. I mean, discussion is good, but if you break the rules that everyone is suppose to abide by, people will get frustrated (especially after he's been notified, what, six times?) Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:29, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

    Isn't Mr.Ernie's comment below itself sanctionable, per WP:ASPERSIONS? Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:58, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

    For the first three diffs in the "Starting most recent" section, the diffs are there and just those three are sanctionable. I will try to dig out the diffs for the older reverts tomorrow.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:23, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning CatapultTalks

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by CatapultTalks

    First, I strongly object to the allegations that I don't bother taking anything to the talk page. Here are examples where I started discussions on talk pages. You would notice that in some instances I agreed based on inputs from other editors that my initial edit could be wrong and we arrived at consensus.

    On Immigration policy of the Donald Trump administration: , , ,

    On Social policy of the Donald Trump administration: , ,

    On Executive Order 13769: , ,

    Here's why VolunteerMarek's allegations about my edits are wrong:

    Starting with most recent per VolunteerMarek's statement above

    1. VolunteerMarek reverted this well sourced relevant edit of mine, terming it "redundant". Redundant how, why exactly? Previously too, VolunteerMarek reverted a good, non-controversial edit of mine, just because he can. No explanation why.
    2. - The earlier edit was promoting media's narrative of the deported person as "Arizona mother" and this prolong's victimization per . Instead, my edit adds a key sourced detail about the conviction being a felony and that she entered the country illegally which presumably led to her deportation. Those are the facts.
    3. - This was after a discussion regarding this was open on talk page with no comments from other editors

    On Social policy of the Donald Trump administration:

    1. VolunteerMarek reverted my well sourced edit adding a key detail because it "confuses everything". Really? How? Again, no explanation
    2. - source cited at the time didn't relate to the text. More sources were provided later to back the claim and I didn't challenge or revert it again
    3. How is this a revert? This is backed by an existing source. It has since not been challenged by anyone.

    On Immigration policy of Donald Trump:

    1. - definitely not a revert. perfectly sourced
    2. - not a revert. removed redundant content and was never challenged

    On Executive Order 13769:

    1. - this was challenged, discussed on talk page and consensus was to keep it out the article - which is exactly what I did
    2. - why is this considered a revert? I removed some unnecessary background. was never challenged
    3. - I reinstated a key detail because it was ignored during a reword by a different editor. wasn't challenged again
    4. - this was discussed in the talk page and once there were more sources countering the initial source, we made a consensus edit

    To me, this looks like VolunteerMarek is reverting my sourced good faith edits just because they don't like the edits or that it wouldn't promote a certain narrative. Please note that none of these edits are vandal attempts or unsourced POVs. So there is no justification in reverting my edits without a good reason - especially given that I'm very open to discussion on talk pages.

    CatapultTalks (talk) 20:38, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

    Follow-up comment:

    I request administrators commenting/acting on this to please note that this problem has compounded because of VolunteerMarek's continuous disruptive reverts of my good edits. It is almost like VolunteerMarek is setting me up for failure, by reverting without basis and then asking me to go get consensus. I implore you to relook at the kind of reverts we are talking about. Especially this , this and this . Also note that I've had fewer problems with other editors in gaining consensus because they have participated in talk page discussions - something that VolunteerMarek hasn't done. I want to reiterate that I do respect the policies, processes of Misplaced Pages, but it is the bad discretion displayed by VolunteerMarek in reverting my good edits that I don't respect.CatapultTalks (talk) 17:41, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

    Statement by Mr Ernie

    Admin note: Comments are closed for this editor.  Sandstein  19:28, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    I propose a topic ban on Volunteer Marek from bringing editors who edit with an opposing political viewpoint to this board. It is beyond disruptive, and overall an enormous waste of time. I encourage everyone to look through the archives from the past few weeks and see how many of these VM has opened to silence other editors whose viewpoints don't line up with theirs. Mr Ernie (talk) 22:43, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

    User:SPECIFICO any reading of this history will reveal that you are wrong. Mr Ernie (talk) 04:27, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

    If I understand the policy correctly, in order for me to be subjected to administrative action under the discretionary sanctions I need to be officially alerted of the discretionary sanctions, which has not yet occurred. I apologize for appearing to cast aspersions. I had intended to show the prior enforcement action requests that the filer has brought recently, and did not do so the right way. Another editor below has linked the history. Mr Ernie (talk) 15:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

    User:SPECIFICO please stop your bad faith characterizations of my actions. You are the one now casting aspersions at me. I struck a comment I realized could be taken the wrong way and then apologized. You claim to have not given it much thought, but every one of your comments in this particular AE is about me. Please stop the aspersions, but if you'd like to continue, I request you open a new section. Please cease the comments on what you wrongfully believe my motivations to be. Mr Ernie (talk) 18:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

    Statement by SPECIFICO

    Admin note: Comments are closed for this editor.  Sandstein  19:28, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Mr Ernie There is absolutely no evidence here to support your assertion that @Volunteer Marek:'s edits are motivated by any "political point of view" and it is unconstructive, to say the least, to present such an undocumented aspersion at AE. SPECIFICO talk 22:58, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

    Mr. Ernie casts WP:ASPERSIONS at OP and then instead of providing evidence or even explanation of such denigration, he tells others to scour the archives for evidence? This behavior is explicitly prohibited per guidance concerning enforcement discussions on the discretionary sanctions page, and it is unacceptable. This kind of disruption places an undue burden on editors and Admins who are trying to enforce of ARBAP2, perpetuating violations on numerous articles. Disruptive behavior at AE should not be tolerated. SPECIFICO talk 14:10, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

    I had not given it any thought, but having just read the latest words from Mr. Ernie, I believe that he should be sanctioned to prevent further disruptive conduct. After denying and defying, he doubled down by claiming a loophole "get out of jail free card" that he hadn't been templated and was therefore immune from the DS guidelines on demeanor. Then, as soon as he realized that he is actually in jeopardy, he stated that he apolgizes from the conduct he stood with only minutes before. What's wrong with this picture? SPECIFICO talk 18:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

    Statement by James J. Lambden

    @Sandstein: The archives indicate Mr Ernie is correct to claim Volunteer Marek has brought a number of editors with "opposing political viewpoint" to this board. To be precise: 7 (now 8) since August of last year, more than any editor in the same period under ARBAP2: 8/2/2016, 10/8/2016, 10/27/2016, 11/21/2016, 11/25/2016, 12/21/2016, 12/26/2016

    WP:ASPERSIONS cautions against claims without evidence or in inappropriate forums. This appears to be neither. James J. Lambden (talk) 19:50, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning CatapultTalks

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • A troubling pattern of editing is illustrated here, including breaches of 1RR and the requirement for obtaining consensus for challenged material. I think a temporary topic ban from this domain is in order. --Laser brain (talk) 03:41, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
    • CatapultTalks has been warned more than enough times... and their pattern of editing at this point shows that they hold the discretionary sanctions system in very little regard. As such, I think a 3-6 month topic ban would be appropriate at this time, since CatapultTalks cannot be trusted to follow the less restrictive page restriction system. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 13:43, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
    • @Volunteer Marek: Because it is contested that some of the edits you reported are reverts, please amend the complaint to include the diffs of the edit that the reported edits reverted. – As to Mr Ernie, I think an AE page ban is in order for casting aspersions.  Sandstein  10:00, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
    • I'm closing down the Mr Ernie subplot and logging the AE page ban. As to SPECIFICO, if you make one more comment in an AE thread in which you are not a party that is not a concise and useful submission of evidence, I will likely ban you from this page as well. This board is not a venue for dispute resolution, and I am not interested in opinions of random editors, particularly those involved in disputes in the topic area. Use AN/I or the other chaos boards for that. The only thing that matters here is evidence that helps admins address requests.  Sandstein  19:35, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
    • After studying the past history here I endorse:
    A ban from this page for Mr Ernie unless directly involved in the AE request as a party.
    A 3 month topic ban for CatapultTalks, who seems to me to be deliberately pushing the limits here.
    Neither user's behaviour as highlighted here is sufficiently egregious to be sanctioned as a standalone item, but the history kicks it into "enough already" territory. Guy (Help!) 14:30, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

    The Rambling Man

    The Rambling Man is blocked for a month.  Sandstein  21:43, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning The Rambling Man

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    The ed17 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:01, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    The Rambling Man (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/The Rambling Man#The Rambling Man prohibited : "The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) is prohibited from insulting and/or belittling other editors."
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    The Rambling Man has continued insulting and belittling other editors since the last AE thread last December, where he was warned that "continuing to use unnecessarily harsh language is likely to result in being blocked."

    1. 4 March "If you're not interested in fixing this sort of thing, why not go and do something else rather than add useless comments?"
    2. 4 March "You are not productive. Your comment adds nothing at all here. Point not proven, please stop assuming bad faith in extremis, and get back to solving this project's major problems of utterly crap quality control." Also please note the edit summary: "what an unsurprising misinterpretation, packed with bad faith and clueless as to how to actually SOLVE THE PROBLEM, do us all a favour and come up with something helpful for a change"
    3. 4 March "hanks, your bad faith mini-rant is noted, yet another apologist who can't tell the difference between absolute statement of fact and "soapboxing"."
    4. 4 March "We can get back to discussing it with people who are actually genuinely interested in making this a better place."
    5. 3 March "You summarily failed to answer my question, but I suppose we probably already have an inkling of the answer."
    6. 2 March "You don't have the first idea what you're talking about, but why let that get in the way of a good story and a weak threat, eh?"
    7. 24 February "... there are some users who are there simply to give their "opinion" on things, and seldom provide any kind of link or reference for their "opinions". Funnily enough, one of them is here in this thread. Until such scandalous and unencyclopedic behaviour is stopped ... The sooner you both get that idea sorted out in your heads, the better."
    8. 12 February "Another parade of article owners and credit-hungry users."
    9. 31 January Denigrating an ESL speaker. "That doesn't make any sense at all. Perhaps you should leave it to a native English speaker before making suggestions or claiming that "fell into oblivion" isn't neutral in tone."
    10. 29 January "You are a disgrace, an abhorrence to the role of an admin, let alone as an normal person." – I fully admit some culpability in this, but the reply was rather over the top.
    11. 29 January "Not at all. Your opposition is founded in ill-logic. But never mind."
    12. 25 January Straight chilling threats, regardless of admin's wrongness. "Your behaviour as an admin will be carefully scrutinised, as you well know. And as you well know, Arbcom take a very dim view of admins who are not willing to abide by ADMINACCT." + "Your refusal to acknowledge your responsibilities as an admin is evident, we'll need to keep an eye on that going forward."
    13. 4 January "No, I get it. You didn't even look at the article, I understand."
    14. 3 January "we need to be careful before paying heed to a user who simply seems to take the role of headmaster when he is abundantly ignoring the community wishes"
    15. 21 December "Now disappear while I set about fixing up the garbage that I've just found!"
    16. 16 December "Your hyperbolic criticism is indicative of one who is too emotional to contribute neutrally."


    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 14 December AE thread closed as no action, but "The Rambling Man is warned that continuing to use unnecessarily harsh language is likely to result in being blocked"
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning The Rambling Man

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by The Rambling Man

    Driveby comment by Iridescent

    Given that the most recent diff of TRM being "belittling" was in reply to someone else saying "fuck you" to him, I think you can probably cut him some slack for that one. ‑ Iridescent 21:37, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning The Rambling Man

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    I note that The Rambling Man has declined to comment here, by removing the notification diff with the comment "from an admin who routinely abuses his position, this is nothing of interest to me I'm afraid. Focus on admins telling editors to "FUCK OFF" instead".

    In my view, the request establishes clearly that The Rambling Man has continued the conduct from which they were prohibited, i.e., "insulting and/or belittling other editors", and even their reaction to this AE request constitutes a violation of this prohibition. Per the remedy at issue, if "The Rambling Man does engage in prohibited conduct, he may be blocked for a duration consistent with the blocking policy." According to that policy, administrators must consider "the severity of the behavior; whether the user has engaged in that behavior before."

    I conclude that the number of violations established in the evidence, together with the warning in the last AE request and the reaction to this request, establishes a pattern of recurring violations and amounts to a severe violation of the prohibition. Accordingly, to effectively deter The Rambling Man from continuing with this conduct, I am blocking them for a month.  Sandstein  21:41, 5 March 2017 (UTC)