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Talk:Murder of Kim Wall

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Eliz81 (talk | contribs) at 20:40, 28 August 2017 (→On "body discovered" in the infobox: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 20:40, 28 August 2017 by Eliz81 (talk | contribs) (→On "body discovered" in the infobox: new section)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

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Removing merge template

Proposal to merge the article into UC3 Nautilus removed as explained on Talk:UC3 Nautilus#Kim Wall.

Best regards -- Neozoon 13:08, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

The lead

From the lead:

disappeared in a submarine

Disappeared after being last seen in a submarine?

She was later found dead prompting a murder investigation

As the murder investigtion started about 12 days before she (the torso) was found dead, it's not accurate to say the find prompted the investigation.--Nø (talk) 15:50, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Layout adjustment proposal

Proposal to include brief biographical information on both Wall and Madsen in the "background" section.

Best, Sebastian — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:3021:1A00:F680:D056:9D2:329D:D6DE (talk) 16:49, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

As I said in the edit summary we should follow the layout of Disappearance of Natalee Holloway as that is a featured article (highest quality article here on Misplaced Pages). - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:51, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Reverted move to "Disappearance of Kim Wall"

I think this is not a proper way to rename the article from an article about a person into an article about the subpart of "disappearance".

Kim Wall was a person and an awardwinning journalist. All the other wikipedia-articles about her in other languages (german, danish and norwegian language) are about the person, also dealing with the topic of the crime.

Same for Wikidata item Kim Wall (Q36519983), which is linked with the article, its about the person not the crime. I will rename the article back to Kim Wall (journalist).

Best regards -- Neozoon 18:14, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

@Neozoon: She is most notable for her disappearance though as demonstrated by the reliable sources. We should go by WP:COMMONNAME, I know there is WP:OSE but as I said above we have Disappearance of Natalee Holloway which is a featured article. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:53, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I suggest simply waiting and let current editing develop the article(s) before making further title changes. Events are occurring these days, changing the content - mostly about her death, but also about her life. Articles about women are commonly misjudged as "Not notable". As seen in the other languages, additional sources are available; there seems to be enough material online to warrant an article about her life. There is a big overlap between the three articles, and a separate article may be created at some point. TGCP (talk) 15:27, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Natalee Holloway was absolutely non-notable except for her disappearance. Wall was a journalist published in The Guardian, New York Times, Harper's Magazine, Time, The Atlantic and South China Morning Post among other publications. --85.194.2.168 (talk) 15:56, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

There are articles specific dealing with this topic of her being special as journalist on CNN, and BBC, I think that settles it from my point of view. : "Friends pay tribute to Kim Wall: 'She is more than what happened to her'" and BBC "Kim Wall: An ‘exceptional’ journalist remembered" Best regards -- Neozoon 16:37, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

I agree that her life is notable well beyond her death, which is why the current state of her infobox especially troubles me. ~Eliz81 22:52, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

For expansion of the article, here are some links about her life, and collections of some of her articles: South China Morning Post, 1, 2 3 TGCP (talk) 16:43, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

This seems like an obvious WP:BLP1E issue. I'm going to start an RM unless someone can explain how BLP1E doesn't apply. NickCT (talk) 12:13, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

@NickCT: This is what I have been saying, I still think that sadly she is most notable for this one event. There is nothing wrong with placing her accomplishments into the section about her life. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:29, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

I was not sure about the creation of any Misplaced Pages article on these events this soon after the events' occurrence, because we may not have given enough time for the "breaking news" coverage to subside and for "significant" coverage to take place. Now that these articles have been created, it makes little sense to delete them, however. Given that this article is written very much like a (sufficiently sourced) biography, I think we're looking down the route of a potential merger and/or redirect, rather than an RM. If we were to move it, the article would be considered unfocused (as it currently focuses on Wall as a whole, rather than just her disappearance/death) and the biographical detail may have to be condensed or removed, which I'm not sure would be favourable either. We don't have a crystal ball, so we don't know if, over time, all three topics (Wall, Madsen and the submarine) will become individually notable and each merit a standalone article by means of independent significant coverage. Of course, there should be just one article per notable topic, and if all three articles do not become independently notable, the non-notable one(s) should be merged/redirected to just one standalone article. Linguist 1 01:43, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

@Linguist111: - Thanks for weighing in. I see a merge or redirect as effectively the same thing as an RM, because any of those solutions would resolve the WP:BLP1E issue. Any thoughts on what we ought to merge/redirect to?

re "will become individually notable" - Well it seems clear that Wall wasn't notable before her death (why else would she not have a WP article?). Has anyone gone back to see if she'd meet notability criteria prior to her death? NickCT (talk) 17:23, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Alas, any BLP policy is hardly applicable in this case.--Nø (talk) 18:11, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

On "body discovered" in the infobox

So I think this is a general problem for the biographies infobox, because it's kinda gross to highlight facts like 'body discovered' for an article that is ostensibly about a person's life, but it's especially gross here where the details on a respected investigative journalist's life and work are scant. The grisly details would be better highlighted in an article specifically about her murder/disappearance. Any chance we could hide those infobox fields from public display? ~Eliz81 20:40, 28 August 2017 (UTC)