Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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Click here to add a new enforcement request
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important informationShortcuts

Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

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KA$HMIR

Blocked for 1 week. GoldenRing (talk) 11:04, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning KA$HMIR User who is submitting this request for enforcement MBlaze Lightning (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:54, 21 December 2017 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested KA$HMIR (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration enforcement log#India-Pakistan_2: A second revert without discussion restriction. A second revert of any edit, however minor, that is done without an explanation on the talk page will lead to an immediate block. Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 17:11, 19 December 2017 1st revert 17:19, 19 December 2017 2nd revert 17:26, 19 December 2017 3rd revert Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any Blocked indefinitely on 19 October 2017 by Alex Shih (talk · contribs) for not disclosing his "old account". Still hasn't declared it publicly presumably to avoid scrutiny. If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on See also Talk:Kashmir conflict#Sanctions_reminder Additional comments by editor filing complaint This is a clear violation of the editing sanctions placed on this page by this WP:SPA. And I'd add that this is not the first time that this guy has violated those sanctions. —MBL 02:54, 21 December 2017 (UTC) @NadirAli: If you think that those "stray IPs" are someone's sock, then file an WP:SPI. Throwing around groundless accusation of socking against established editors is not acceptable. Please watch your step. —MBL 08:52, 22 December 2017 (UTC) And I think it's worth mentioning that NadirAli was warned "to focus on content, not nationality" last month (see: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive221#NadirAli), yet he has continued to make comments like, "The older text whose value Hindu POV pushers want to dilute..", "There is a case here that Indian editors have taken to harass Kashmiri editors through these frivolous reports and when they fail they start to IP sock.." Surely some administrative action is warranted here. —MBL 08:57, 22 December 2017 (UTC) @RegentsPark and Lankiveil: I believe that KA$HMIR is in clear violation of WP:CLEANSTART and WP:SCRUTINY policies and therefore he should be topic banned or blocked. This makes it clear that Fahaddar65 (talk · contribs) is KA$HMIR's former account. KA$HMIR has used his former account as recently as December, 10. KA$HMIR was registered on 23 September 2017, by this time he had already received multiple warnings, and an ARBIPA sanctions notice on his former account's talk page. He has engaged in similar disruptive editing with his new account and has received multiple warnings on his talk page too. KA$HMIR has also used his former account to make POV edits on Persecution of Biharis in Bangladesh, Pakistan, History of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, History of Sindh, and for restoring edits of a disruptive sock, Towns Hill (talk · contribs), see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Faizan/Archive#Comments_by_other_users_10 for diffs. On Dhar (surname) Fahaddar65 removed "mostly in India" (which was sourced) and used Misplaced Pages as a source. Fahaddar65 also made POV edit on Ethnic groups in Pakistan, (that also violated WP:V, WP:OR, among other policies) similar to those made by KA$HMIR, for which he received a yet another Level 3 warning on his talk page. Dishonest editors like KA$HMIR shouldn't be allowed to edit Misplaced Pages. —MBL 12:59, 26 December 2017 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning KA$HMIR Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by (KA$HMIR) Well I will make my simple case here but will abide by whatever is the board's final decision, whatever it will be, though this looks like a bad faith report. As far as I know regentspark the 1RR restriction from all Kashmir Conflict articles, if this is indeed one of them. Besides, there is an exemption from 3RR to remove content which is copyright and or added by blocked users, as anyone can see, I consistently removed the page's content on the basis that it has clear copyright violations which other users Josephus and Danish agree with me on. There is also a talkpage discussion ongoing and I am still compiling the evidence for those users who had requested it. Also a lot, if not most, of the article's content was written by a blocked sockmaster TylerDurden, who was recently caught socking again. Apologies if I have unwittingly violated any sanction. Will be extra careful in future. KA$HMIR (talk) 07:50, 21 December 2017 (UTC) @RegentsPark: as an example see this sentence in the first section's first paragraph. " From then on, Poonch remained garrisoned by a battalion of State troops It's source said this "But from this time onwards Poonch remained garrisoned by a battalion of J&K State troops." This is very closely paraphrased. There are more examples especially in the sentences which cite Saraf's Kashmiris road to freedom Volume 2 and other obscure primary sources which are not available online. Overall the wording in the article differs little from the sources. This also shows the article with a 60%+ similarity. Article needs to be rewritten from scratch. We can not trust a sockmaster TylerDurden to have written this article properly. KA$HMIR (talk) 14:55, 23 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by WBG His being a SPA and Alex's block are not much of a problem at their respective individual merits. Functionary Yunshui knows his alt-accs and AFAIK, the use of such accounts are permitted by our legit-socks criterion.Obviously, cases of 3RR and/or violation of ArbCom decisions needs to be looked at, though! Winged Blades 04:09, 21 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by power~enwiki A link to the copyvio tool: . The top two matches are caused by properly-cited blockquotes. I don't see anything that justifies blanking the entire article. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:21, 21 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by Capitals00 But problem remains that KA$HMIR is edit warring against consensus on multiple articles and often engaged in WP:BLUDGEONING. At least 3 articles (Violence against women during the partition of India, 1947 Poonch Rebellion, Kashmir conflict) have been provided extended protection because of his edit warring. Capitals00 (talk) 16:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC) Comments of Mblaze needs serious consideration. Despite the siteban+topicban by Arbitration Committee, recent warning by BU Rob13, NadirAli continues to attack editors by commenting on race/nationalities by saying "Hindu POV pushers," "Indian editors have taken to harass Kashmiri editors" and now "I am referring to Indians involved". When other editors get topic banned for such attitude, there should be no exception for an all-time disruptive editor like NadirAli. Capitals00 (talk) 12:42, 23 December 2017 (UTC) Mblaze is right about KA$HMIR that the account is suspicious and should be blocked since it is frequently engaging in violation of WP:CLEANSTART. You are not allowed to continue edit wars and disruption that you did with your previous account. Capitals00 (talk) 14:29, 26 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by Kautilya3 The edit warring that occurred at the 1947 Poonch Rebellion is the most shocking I have seen in my three years of editing, not only for the spuriousness of the rationale but also the bombast with which it was carried out. Note the edit summaries: There were massive copyright violations in the article's old version. Admins please suppress stop restoring copyvio else it could lead to you getting a block whole article is copied from the sources used Yet, when I quizzed it on the talk page, no evidence was forthcoming. KA$HMIR was certainly aware of the edit restrictions placed on Kashmir conflict articles because RegentsPark recently reminded every one of their existence. This is the apex of all the tendentiousness that the user has been displaying ever since he came on board. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:28, 21 December 2017 (UTC) Let us also note the obvious Tag teaming that has occurred in this edit war. These are the first ever edits by any of these editors on this page. Pure coincidence? But such coincidences are now occurring with increasing frequency all over the India-Pakistan space: Talk:Violence against women during the Partition of India, Talk:Annexation of Junagadh etc. At Talk:Kashmir conflict, a group of editors have repeated each other's RfC comments . -- Kautilya3 (talk) 01:02, 22 December 2017 (UTC) Well, after five days of continuous prodding, user KA$HMIR was able to produce one sentence of poor phrasing in a Background section, which is not particularly egregious and in no way justifies blanking an entire article. This is clearly shoot-first-and-think-later battleground editing, precisely what the ARBIPA sanctions are meant to control. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 01:10, 24 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by User:EdJohnston For clarity, the current restrictions in effect for this article (from WP:DSLOG) appear to be: Kashmir conflict and all articles related to the India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir (initially posted here. Modified Sept 2016: 1RR restriction removed and a first revert does not need to be explained on the talk page.): A 1 RR restriction. Any attempt, even if made in good faith, to do more than one revert in a 24 hour period will lead to an immediate block. A second revert without discussion restriction. A second revert of any edit, however minor, that is done without an explanation on the talk page will lead to an immediate block. A civility restriction. Any suggestion that any editor is not editing in good faith will lead to an immediate block. An ethnicity claim restriction Any attempt to bring the purported or deduced or imagined ethnic or nationality identities of any users will lead to an immediate block. This includes an editor's own stated ethnic identity or nationality. Misplaced Pages uses reliable sources and the weighting of those sources to decide what to include, what not to include, and how the content should be stated in an article. Please stick to arguments based on those factors. --regentspark (comment) 13:10, 9 May 2016 (UTC) Quoted from DSLOG by EdJohnston (talk) 18:20, 21 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by Dilpa kaur Looks like a bad faith report by a user who has been obsessed with maligning this user through hook or crook. I guess this request is another frustrated attempt after previous failures to rid the encyclopedia of this constructive editor. Previously MBlaze Lightning joyously joined in a ridiculous SPI against KA$HMIR, only to be confronted with the establishment of KA$HMIR's innocence. He also brought him up in a spurious ANI case which was based on such weak evidence (such as MBlaze' Lightnings mixup of my IP address and Danish Mehraj's) that even MBlaze Lightning had to withdraw it. The encyclopedia has also been recently hit by malicious IPs , located in different Indian cities, looking to malign this user as a sockpuppet (the different locations of these obvious IP socks suggest collaboration and their knowledge of old SPIs indicate that these are older users IP socking to harass without getting their accounts sanctioned). I suspect a link between these reports and the malicious IPs who are obviously not new strays but old Indian editors who have a beef with KA$HMIR and Owais Khursheed and are IP socking to harass the Kashmiri editors. Overall this request is nothing more than the latest attempt to get rid of another good user who is a headache for the POV pushers. 223.225.246.200 (talk) 20:28, 21 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by NadirAli I'll have to agree with Dilpa here. The frequency with which these reports are getting filed show desperation that some of the mud flung will stick. Mar4d previously expressed the same concern in another frivolous AE request, that time against me, about Kautilya3 desperately trying to get rid of editors with another frame of mind. Since this looks like KA$HMIR's first mistake I would advise to go easy on him. We can all rest in peace that Yunshui has confirmed that KA$HMIR was not under any sanctions on their previous account. So a warning should suffice this time. As far as copyvio is concerned I am more concerned at the speed with which this is being used as a reason by not just KA$HMIR but several editors to delete content which no one can check afterwards was really copyvio or not, especially when the users getting the diffs suppressed have themselves restored copyvio content. Instead I call for a WP:BOOMERANG. The evidence Dilpa has shown has startled me. It is just not possible that stray IPs are able to link to old SPIs. There is a case here that Indian editors have taken to harass Kashmiri editors through these frivolous reports and when they fail they start to IP sock to frame these responsible users for sockpuppetry. The messages left by these IPs are quite telling. KA$HMIR - about me - Am an old user (Owais Khurseed) :D I hope indians you have not forgotten me am still doing edits for my friends TalhaZubair Butt. ha ha Indians can never catch me. #gayhind To Indians: User:KA$HMIR is me - ha ha - am doing edits for my friends Talha Zubair Butt a k a User:Towns Hill. Me and my friends has dozens of wikipedia. accounts cunning Indian Kautilya can never catch . HA H A HA Kashmir Banega Pakistan. I N S H A L L A H The case of collaboration is quite strong, not least because of the different IP locations within India of the users messaging with the same motive. I just recently expressed my concern at how some editors with no contributions to articles are suddenly arriving on the articles' talkpages as if they were requested by an invisible hand. This is part of a more extensive phenomenon of a particular set of users who participate in the same SPI, ANI and AE requests concerning editors in the India-Pakistan topic area and support each other on the talkpages on articles in the India-Pakistan project. I call for a warning to user:KA$HMIR to be more careful in future and a full investigation of the accounts frequently filing such bad faith reports and their links to these malicious IPs.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:01, 22 December 2017 (UTC) To editor MBlaze Lightning:, I should file an SPI against anyone I think is in violation. Obviously I am referring to the Indians involved. Do you want me to specify that every single time on every single thread related to this case? It would take up a lot of my time and space here. It was also a cruel thing to do in filing an SPI against me for the sheer sake of getting me and one other opposing user blocked, but you are just doing it again here by distorting my statements. Take care to refrain from such behavior in the future.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:39, 23 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by Yunshui Since I got pinged above, I'm just dropping by to confirm that KA$HMIR has indeed disclosed their original account to me and I'm satisfied that they are complying with the requirements at WP:SOCK. However, per an email conversation yesterday, they have advised me that they intend to abandon their former account entirely, in order to ensure that no accidental violations occur. I do not believe the former account is relevant to this case. Yunshui _水 08:51, 22 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by Mar4d I see nothing actionable here. Agree with RegentsPark that a warning, and a note to be careful in the future, is sufficient. Mar4d (talk) 10:00, 24 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by Vanamonde93 In the absence of any evidence provided by KA$HMIR, I would concur that an AE block of a week would normally be in order. Given the time that has elapsed, I'm disinclined to place such a block myself, and would much rather give them an explicit warning. Copyright violations are an exception to 3RR, but for that very reason, crying wold over copyright should not be treated lightly. Vanamonde (talk) 12:54, 28 December 2017 (UTC) Result concerning KA$HMIR This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Looking over the evidence provided by MBlaze Lightning, I see that KA$HMIR was repeatedly asked for evidence of the copyvio but failed to provide it. I suggest they provide specific evidence above otherwise these will be viewed as bad faith deletions of sourced material and a violation of the 2RR without a talk page post sanction placed on these articles. If there is evidence forthcoming, then a warning to be more careful in the future is probably all that is required.--regentspark (comment) 16:35, 21 December 2017 (UTC) @KA$HMIR:. Still waiting for evidence of the copyvio. --regentspark (comment) 17:13, 22 December 2017 (UTC) Unfortunately, I don't see evidence that would justify repeatedly reverting 64K plus bytes of material without responding to requests or using the talk page as required by the - clearly stated - restrictions that are in place. I suggest a 1 week arb enforcement block but will let someone else decide whether to apply it or not. --regentspark (comment) 15:30, 24 December 2017 (UTC) I too would like to see the evidence that RegentsPark has requested. If such evidence can't be presented, I'll assume it doesn't exist. If the evidence doesn't exist, this is 2RR and that would be unfortunate for KA$HMIR. Lankiveil 12:56, 24 December 2017 (UTC). This looks like a clear 2RR violation, unfortunately. If no other administrators are expected to comment I will close this and issue the standard block. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 13:52, 2 January 2018 (UTC) User:KA$HMIR was given a chance to respond here in detail and back up their charge of copyright violation. They haven't done so. Agree with the block proposed by User:Coffee. EdJohnston (talk) 01:19, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Blocked for 1 week. GoldenRing (talk) 11:04, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning KA$HMIR

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: MBlaze Lightning (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:54, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: KA$HMIR (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration enforcement log#India-Pakistan_2: A second revert without discussion restriction. A second revert of any edit, however minor, that is done without an explanation on the talk page will lead to an immediate block.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Blocked indefinitely on 19 October 2017 by Alex Shih (talk · contribs) for not disclosing his "old account". Still hasn't declared it publicly presumably to avoid scrutiny.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on
See also Talk:Kashmir conflict#Sanctions_reminder

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This is a clear violation of the editing sanctions placed on this page by this WP:SPA. And I'd add that this is not the first time that this guy has violated those sanctions. —MBL 02:54, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

@NadirAli: If you think that those "stray IPs" are someone's sock, then file an WP:SPI. Throwing around groundless accusation of socking against established editors is not acceptable. Please watch your step. —MBL 08:52, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

And I think it's worth mentioning that NadirAli was warned "to focus on content, not nationality" last month (see: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive221#NadirAli), yet he has continued to make comments like, "The older text whose value Hindu POV pushers want to dilute..", "There is a case here that Indian editors have taken to harass Kashmiri editors through these frivolous reports and when they fail they start to IP sock.." Surely some administrative action is warranted here. —MBL 08:57, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

@RegentsPark and Lankiveil: I believe that KA$HMIR is in clear violation of WP:CLEANSTART and WP:SCRUTINY policies and therefore he should be topic banned or blocked. This makes it clear that Fahaddar65 (talk · contribs) is KA$HMIR's former account. KA$HMIR has used his former account as recently as December, 10.

KA$HMIR was registered on 23 September 2017, by this time he had already received multiple warnings, and an ARBIPA sanctions notice on his former account's talk page. He has engaged in similar disruptive editing with his new account and has received multiple warnings on his talk page too. KA$HMIR has also used his former account to make POV edits on Persecution of Biharis in Bangladesh, Pakistan, History of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, History of Sindh, and for restoring edits of a disruptive sock, Towns Hill (talk · contribs), see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Faizan/Archive#Comments_by_other_users_10 for diffs.

On Dhar (surname) Fahaddar65 removed "mostly in India" (which was sourced) and used Misplaced Pages as a source. Fahaddar65 also made POV edit on Ethnic groups in Pakistan, (that also violated WP:V, WP:OR, among other policies) similar to those made by KA$HMIR, for which he received a yet another Level 3 warning on his talk page.

Dishonest editors like KA$HMIR shouldn't be allowed to edit Misplaced Pages. —MBL 12:59, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning KA$HMIR

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by (KA$HMIR)

Well I will make my simple case here but will abide by whatever is the board's final decision, whatever it will be, though this looks like a bad faith report. As far as I know regentspark the 1RR restriction from all Kashmir Conflict articles, if this is indeed one of them. Besides, there is an exemption from 3RR to remove content which is copyright and or added by blocked users, as anyone can see, I consistently removed the page's content on the basis that it has clear copyright violations which other users Josephus and Danish agree with me on. There is also a talkpage discussion ongoing and I am still compiling the evidence for those users who had requested it. Also a lot, if not most, of the article's content was written by a blocked sockmaster TylerDurden, who was recently caught socking again.

Apologies if I have unwittingly violated any sanction. Will be extra careful in future. KA$HMIR (talk) 07:50, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
@RegentsPark: as an example see this sentence in the first section's first paragraph.

" From then on, Poonch remained garrisoned by a battalion of State troops

It's source said this

"But from this time onwards Poonch remained garrisoned by a battalion of J&K State troops."

This is very closely paraphrased. There are more examples especially in the sentences which cite Saraf's Kashmiris road to freedom Volume 2 and other obscure primary sources which are not available online. Overall the wording in the article differs little from the sources.

This also shows the article with a 60%+ similarity. Article needs to be rewritten from scratch. We can not trust a sockmaster TylerDurden to have written this article properly. KA$HMIR (talk) 14:55, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by WBG

His being a SPA and Alex's block are not much of a problem at their respective individual merits. Functionary Yunshui knows his alt-accs and AFAIK, the use of such accounts are permitted by our legit-socks criterion.Obviously, cases of 3RR and/or violation of ArbCom decisions needs to be looked at, though! Winged Blades 04:09, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by power~enwiki

A link to the copyvio tool: . The top two matches are caused by properly-cited blockquotes. I don't see anything that justifies blanking the entire article. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:21, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by Capitals00

But problem remains that KA$HMIR is edit warring against consensus on multiple articles and often engaged in WP:BLUDGEONING. At least 3 articles (Violence against women during the partition of India, 1947 Poonch Rebellion, Kashmir conflict) have been provided extended protection because of his edit warring. Capitals00 (talk) 16:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Comments of Mblaze needs serious consideration. Despite the siteban+topicban by Arbitration Committee, recent warning by BU Rob13, NadirAli continues to attack editors by commenting on race/nationalities by saying "Hindu POV pushers," "Indian editors have taken to harass Kashmiri editors" and now "I am referring to Indians involved". When other editors get topic banned for such attitude, there should be no exception for an all-time disruptive editor like NadirAli. Capitals00 (talk) 12:42, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Mblaze is right about KA$HMIR that the account is suspicious and should be blocked since it is frequently engaging in violation of WP:CLEANSTART. You are not allowed to continue edit wars and disruption that you did with your previous account. Capitals00 (talk) 14:29, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by Kautilya3

The edit warring that occurred at the 1947 Poonch Rebellion is the most shocking I have seen in my three years of editing, not only for the spuriousness of the rationale but also the bombast with which it was carried out. Note the edit summaries:

There were massive copyright violations in the article's old version. Admins please suppress
stop restoring copyvio else it could lead to you getting a block
whole article is copied from the sources used

Yet, when I quizzed it on the talk page, no evidence was forthcoming. KA$HMIR was certainly aware of the edit restrictions placed on Kashmir conflict articles because RegentsPark recently reminded every one of their existence. This is the apex of all the tendentiousness that the user has been displaying ever since he came on board. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:28, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Let us also note the obvious Tag teaming that has occurred in this edit war. These are the first ever edits by any of these editors on this page. Pure coincidence? But such coincidences are now occurring with increasing frequency all over the India-Pakistan space: Talk:Violence against women during the Partition of India, Talk:Annexation of Junagadh etc. At Talk:Kashmir conflict, a group of editors have repeated each other's RfC comments . -- Kautilya3 (talk) 01:02, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Well, after five days of continuous prodding, user KA$HMIR was able to produce one sentence of poor phrasing in a Background section, which is not particularly egregious and in no way justifies blanking an entire article. This is clearly shoot-first-and-think-later battleground editing, precisely what the ARBIPA sanctions are meant to control. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 01:10, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by User:EdJohnston

For clarity, the current restrictions in effect for this article (from WP:DSLOG) appear to be:

Kashmir conflict and all articles related to the India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir (initially posted here. Modified Sept 2016: 1RR restriction removed and a first revert does not need to be explained on the talk page.):
A 1 RR restriction. Any attempt, even if made in good faith, to do more than one revert in a 24 hour period will lead to an immediate block.

A second revert without discussion restriction. A second revert of any edit, however minor, that is done without an explanation on the talk page will lead to an immediate block.

A civility restriction. Any suggestion that any editor is not editing in good faith will lead to an immediate block.

An ethnicity claim restriction Any attempt to bring the purported or deduced or imagined ethnic or nationality identities of any users will lead to an immediate block. This includes an editor's own stated ethnic identity or nationality. Misplaced Pages uses reliable sources and the weighting of those sources to decide what to include, what not to include, and how the content should be stated in an article. Please stick to arguments based on those factors.
--regentspark (comment) 13:10, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
Quoted from DSLOG by EdJohnston (talk) 18:20, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by Dilpa kaur

Looks like a bad faith report by a user who has been obsessed with maligning this user through hook or crook. I guess this request is another frustrated attempt after previous failures to rid the encyclopedia of this constructive editor. Previously MBlaze Lightning joyously joined in a ridiculous SPI against KA$HMIR, only to be confronted with the establishment of KA$HMIR's innocence. He also brought him up in a spurious ANI case which was based on such weak evidence (such as MBlaze' Lightnings mixup of my IP address and Danish Mehraj's) that even MBlaze Lightning had to withdraw it. The encyclopedia has also been recently hit by malicious IPs , located in different Indian cities, looking to malign this user as a sockpuppet (the different locations of these obvious IP socks suggest collaboration and their knowledge of old SPIs indicate that these are older users IP socking to harass without getting their accounts sanctioned). I suspect a link between these reports and the malicious IPs who are obviously not new strays but old Indian editors who have a beef with KA$HMIR and Owais Khursheed and are IP socking to harass the Kashmiri editors.

Overall this request is nothing more than the latest attempt to get rid of another good user who is a headache for the POV pushers. 223.225.246.200 (talk) 20:28, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by NadirAli

I'll have to agree with Dilpa here. The frequency with which these reports are getting filed show desperation that some of the mud flung will stick. Mar4d previously expressed the same concern in another frivolous AE request, that time against me, about Kautilya3 desperately trying to get rid of editors with another frame of mind. Since this looks like KA$HMIR's first mistake I would advise to go easy on him. We can all rest in peace that Yunshui has confirmed that KA$HMIR was not under any sanctions on their previous account. So a warning should suffice this time. As far as copyvio is concerned I am more concerned at the speed with which this is being used as a reason by not just KA$HMIR but several editors to delete content which no one can check afterwards was really copyvio or not, especially when the users getting the diffs suppressed have themselves restored copyvio content.

Instead I call for a WP:BOOMERANG. The evidence Dilpa has shown has startled me. It is just not possible that stray IPs are able to link to old SPIs. There is a case here that Indian editors have taken to harass Kashmiri editors through these frivolous reports and when they fail they start to IP sock to frame these responsible users for sockpuppetry.

The messages left by these IPs are quite telling.

KA$HMIR - about me - Am an old user (Owais Khurseed) :D I hope indians you have not forgotten me am still doing edits for my friends TalhaZubair Butt. ha ha Indians can never catch me. #gayhind

To Indians: User:KA$HMIR is me - ha ha - am doing edits for my friends Talha Zubair Butt a k a User:Towns Hill. Me and my friends has dozens of wikipedia. accounts cunning Indian Kautilya can never catch . HA H A HA Kashmir Banega Pakistan. I N S H A L L A H

The case of collaboration is quite strong, not least because of the different IP locations within India of the users messaging with the same motive. I just recently expressed my concern at how some editors with no contributions to articles are suddenly arriving on the articles' talkpages as if they were requested by an invisible hand. This is part of a more extensive phenomenon of a particular set of users who participate in the same SPI, ANI and AE requests concerning editors in the India-Pakistan topic area and support each other on the talkpages on articles in the India-Pakistan project.

I call for a warning to user:KA$HMIR to be more careful in future and a full investigation of the accounts frequently filing such bad faith reports and their links to these malicious IPs.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:01, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

To editor MBlaze Lightning:, I should file an SPI against anyone I think is in violation. Obviously I am referring to the Indians involved. Do you want me to specify that every single time on every single thread related to this case? It would take up a lot of my time and space here. It was also a cruel thing to do in filing an SPI against me for the sheer sake of getting me and one other opposing user blocked, but you are just doing it again here by distorting my statements. Take care to refrain from such behavior in the future.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:39, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by Yunshui

Since I got pinged above, I'm just dropping by to confirm that KA$HMIR has indeed disclosed their original account to me and I'm satisfied that they are complying with the requirements at WP:SOCK. However, per an email conversation yesterday, they have advised me that they intend to abandon their former account entirely, in order to ensure that no accidental violations occur. I do not believe the former account is relevant to this case. Yunshui _水 08:51, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by Mar4d

I see nothing actionable here. Agree with RegentsPark that a warning, and a note to be careful in the future, is sufficient. Mar4d (talk) 10:00, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by Vanamonde93

In the absence of any evidence provided by KA$HMIR, I would concur that an AE block of a week would normally be in order. Given the time that has elapsed, I'm disinclined to place such a block myself, and would much rather give them an explicit warning. Copyright violations are an exception to 3RR, but for that very reason, crying wold over copyright should not be treated lightly. Vanamonde (talk) 12:54, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Result concerning KA$HMIR

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Looking over the evidence provided by MBlaze Lightning, I see that KA$HMIR was repeatedly asked for evidence of the copyvio but failed to provide it. I suggest they provide specific evidence above otherwise these will be viewed as bad faith deletions of sourced material and a violation of the 2RR without a talk page post sanction placed on these articles. If there is evidence forthcoming, then a warning to be more careful in the future is probably all that is required.--regentspark (comment) 16:35, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

@KA$HMIR:. Still waiting for evidence of the copyvio. --regentspark (comment) 17:13, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't see evidence that would justify repeatedly reverting 64K plus bytes of material without responding to requests or using the talk page as required by the - clearly stated - restrictions that are in place. I suggest a 1 week arb enforcement block but will let someone else decide whether to apply it or not. --regentspark (comment) 15:30, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

I too would like to see the evidence that RegentsPark has requested. If such evidence can't be presented, I'll assume it doesn't exist. If the evidence doesn't exist, this is 2RR and that would be unfortunate for KA$HMIR. Lankiveil 12:56, 24 December 2017 (UTC).
This looks like a clear 2RR violation, unfortunately. If no other administrators are expected to comment I will close this and issue the standard block. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 13:52, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
User:KA$HMIR was given a chance to respond here in detail and back up their charge of copyright violation. They haven't done so. Agree with the block proposed by User:Coffee. EdJohnston (talk) 01:19, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

ScratchMarshall

No action. ScratchMarshall is warned that his views on how much detail is appropriate in an article are out of step with community expectations. Continuing to push excessive detail over a long period becomes disruptive and may lead to sanctions in the future. GoldenRing (talk) 10:59, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning ScratchMarshall User who is submitting this request for enforcement K.e.coffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested ScratchMarshall (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics_2. The article (Unite the Right rally) is currently under ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIES, including: Limit of one revert in 24 hours Consensus required This article and its editors are subject to Misplaced Pages's general sanctions Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy At 21:47, editor inserted contentious material about a recently living person against Consensus required clause on the Talk page. Several editors had previously objected to this material at 21:14; at 20:05, etc. The purported cause of death was reverted from the article multiple times (not originally inserted by Scratch): ; ; . The Talk page discussion with Scratch (Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally#More_stuff_that_looks_like_it_belongs_in_reactions) includes: You have been told this countless times. So I take it that Scratch knew the edit would be contentious. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:16, 28 December 2017 (UTC) This revert at 19:48, combined with the edit above, appears to violate 1RR clause, as it's in addition to the edit at 21:47 that the editor knew was contentious. First edit by Scratch was: . It was reverted here: . Scrat then reinstated it here: . If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) The editor was alerted in August 2017 about the DS sanctions on the same article here: .--K.e.coffman (talk) 22:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC) Additional comments by editor filing complaint There are multiple prior discussions and warnings on the user's Talk page that pertain to the same article: "Caution: Personal attacks directed at a specific editor on Talk:Unite the Right rally" "Please stop your disruptive editing at Unite the Right rally" : "PA warning" : The DS alert linked includes a specific warning: "Particularly troubling is your turning that car thing into a "collision". Setting aside the question of the categories, that's pure POV editing. (...) 02:47, 29 August 2017 (UTC)" Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Editor has been notified here: . Discussion concerning ScratchMarshall Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by ScratchMarshall special:diff/817497032 at 19:48 was me identifying the struck sedan as a Toyota Camry per Duggan of WashPo special:diff/817511202 at 21:47 was me identifying the cause of death as blunt force injury to the chest, per Porter of NewsWeek First I'll explain how K.e.coffman is misrepresenting the Camry issue. In Special:Diff/817496708 my larger edit was indeed reverted by ValarianB. However the summary said "This edit made proper grammar into atrocious grammar". Valarian did not actually object to my mention of the Camry in the summary, only the larger rephrasing that I did. On that basis, I was not restoring what Valarian's revert targeted (the grammar) but only the Camry identification, which Valarian did not object to. Thus my summary "minimalist restoration of details". Valarian's revert threw the baby out with the bathwater. Since only bathwater (grammar change) was objected to, and not baby (Camry ID) restoring it was not a restoration of what Valarian objected to, so this was an entirely separate edit and not a 1RR violation, because I did not "revert" Valarian's reversion, I noted his objections and made a completely different edit which did not change the grammar and only simply added the data. Second I'll explain how K.e.coffman is misrepresenting the COD issue. This is not "contentious" material at all. We already had consensus regarding that we should not state Heather Heyer's cause of death as being a heart attack based on her mother Susan Bro's comments during an NBC News interview. Our discussion was on whether or not we should mention those comments or the news coverage reactions to them generated. It was not on whether or not to list the official COD, which is blunt trauma, not heart attack. The "several editors" K.e.coffman refers to are: special:diff/817499023 Grayfell at 20:05 special:diff/817506831 K.e.coffman at 21:14 The problem is that both of these were replies to special:diff/817480803 where I was discussing Noor Al-Sibai's article regarding the "heart attack" quote, which did not mention "blunt trauma" at all. K.e.coffman is inaccurate in saying that these were "previous objections to this material" because it was different material we were discussing. Re the "multiple prior discussions and warnings" special:diff/796258874 August 19 Power~enwiki decided to leave a message conveying personal opinions that a car killed Heather Heyer, despite there being no actual statement regarding manner of death released at the time. Given that Newsweek didn't report on it until October 17, I don't even think cause of death being blunt trauma had been mentioned at the time. Power~enwiki's false accusation of my making "disruptive edits" was thus at the time, based on pushing a personal PoV which violated WP:BLPCRIME. special:diff/797772479 August 29 Drmies left thea false accusation of the word "collision" being "Pure POV editing", even though that word has been used in news coverage of the event, for example "Man accused in fatal Charlottesville collision back in court". Editors who persist in inserting the word "attack" are clearly upset by neutral language in accordance with WP:BLPCRIME like this. I do not put stock in people who levy false accusations and then abuse the flooding of templates on those they disagree with to try and frighten them away. special:diff/797802477 August 29 Doug Weller left an ambiguous warning without actually specifying the accusation. I followed up on his talk page: User_talk:Doug_Weller/Archive_46#request_for_clarification and Weller accused me of not AGF whilst ignoring people who already not AGF and harassing me. Weller calls "check a mirror" a personal attack when he accused me of not AGF, but if accusing someone of not AGF is a "personal attack" then this would be Weller admitting to engaging in personal attacks himself. Weller has been WP:INVOLVED with this article from the outset (check the talk archives) and was not a neutral party in warning me. He was ignoring unwarranted attacks on me and falsely portraying me as the attacker when I was simply defending myself. Situation was: Party A: "X is true. B is biased for saying Y." - no reason given Party B: "Y is true because reason. Given A persists on X without evidence, A may be the one who is biased." Party C: "B is making personal attacks against A! Stop doing that B!" special:diff/798752997 September 3, Acromion responded to Special:diff/798752389 saying it was "moving into personal attack territory" where I said "abusing reversion" and "dogpiling" regarding Valerian's behavior. This was at Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#Color_of_other_2_vehicles where Weller had already weighed in to agree with Valerian (thus being WP:INVOLVED). Notable things supported do not become "excessive" or "trivial" based upon the unsourced personal opinions of Wikipedians. None of them were actually making arguments, just stating a lack of interest, or a lack of understanding of the value of detail, thus "dogpiling" did and still does seem appropriate for that, and it continues today. Re Sandstein, your suspicions are correct, diff 2 is not a 1RR violation, and not a revert at all. ScratchMarshall (talk) 00:01, 29 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by TheValeyard How do we deal with an editor who brings up the same topics over and over and over and over again? I'm trying to sift thru the maze of restrictions and rules that cover political pages, is there anything along the lines of "being super-unable to stop beating a dead horse" ? Look at this, Scratchmarshall has brought up the same topic, which has garnered zero consensus among editors at the article, over several months Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally#OR_regarding_triviality_of_Toyota_Camry Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#Color_of_other_2_vehicles Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_5#what_is_brand_of_white_car_which_Dodge_Challenger_hit_then_pushed Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_5#Best_source_saying_Heyer_was_hit_by_Challenger Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_4#license_plates_and_car_brands Here's the topics started for the "heart attack" part, a notorious alt-right meme attack Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally#Medical_report_and_chest_injury Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#Cause_of_death (initiated by another user but Scratchmarshall takes same argument tack) Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#statements_from_Heyer's_mother Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#casualties_afterward_split Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_5#clarifying_Heather_Heyer_location_during_Challenger_incident Am I crazy or is this overboard? TheValeyard (talk) 00:32, 29 December 2017 (UTC) Doesn't much matter if sentiment is leaning against any finding of wrongdoing, but the silly assertions of and in archive 6 the first one to mention "heart attack" in the "casualties afterward split" is YOU are prime examples of the belaboured nitpicky focus this user has subjected editors to over the last few months. My, quote, "first mention", was to rebut this users suggestion that a casualty sub-article be created. The user then invoked the term "heart attack" as a part of subsequent arguments no less than a dozen times. What this behavior does is drive people away, so when say 10 people object the first time around, it drops to 7 on a repeated attempt, then 5 and on and on. Argument by exhaustion, it poisons the talk pages and makes everything just unpleasant. I've had my last say so do what you will. TheValeyard (talk) 04:45, 3 January 2018 (UTC) Add'l statement by K.e.coffman (filer) This has started with Scratch posting to my Talk page: "Your redaction", where he linked to this diff from the article's Talk page, which I had redacted two months ago. It looks like he's unable to let go of this fringe theory, and it's becoming disruptive and possibly BLP violating. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:48, 29 December 2017 (UTC) Statement by MrX Sandstein is correct that there is no technically sanctionable violation of an editing restriction, however GoldenRing is correct that the behavior of Scratch Marshall is disruptive pushing of detail. In fact, it violates the principle of consensus, which is plainly established for this aspect of the subject. I agree with the idea of a narrow topic ban from the article (and related articles), but since this manner of editing from ScratchMarshall has been ongoing for nearly five months, I think the topic ban should be for at least six months, if not permanent, based on the WP:POV pushing evident in their contributions to the article.- MrX 14:16, 1 January 2018 (UTC) Perhaps I'm reading some comments wrong, but there seems to be a misconception by a few people that AE is only for sanctioning editors that breech article editing restrictions. That is simply not the case. Relentless editing against consensus is exactly one of the behaviors that Arbcom cases sought to stop in the two AP cases. Whether this case requires a sanction is a judgement call. - MrX 01:56, 3 January 2018 (UTC) Add'l statements by ScratchMarshall (target) Apparently a followup is fine so I have responses. firstly to K.e.coffman: you appear to be implying I agree with the fringe theory. I do not. I simply think the best way to deal with it is to acknowledge it is being spread (as sources show) and that it has been discredited, and supply the leading theory supported by the medical report. My objection here is that by censoring confused people who post that, they'll just keep posting it and nobody will actually be educated. Valeyard: it is not the "same topic" if I am bringing up new details. The recent discussion of the 2nd sedan's brand being "Camry" for example, I have never brought up before, I only recently learned of it. I view it as valuable when we are talking about a situation of 2 sedans making contact, to be able to discuss their brands. We already do so for the Challenger, doing so for the Camry is following an existing pattern. The archives you have linked to are on separate topics. A4 was asking about brands. A5 had Spem Reduxit suggest indictment sheet, implying to me agreement that it is valuable. I JethroBT said "until sources discuss it" regarding brand. Sources DO discuss it now, imlpying Jethro would now clearly see the value in how it is relevant to the content. A6 was you pushing the idea that car colors are trivial despite multiple sources commenting on color. You prematurely closed the conversation with under 2 weeks of activity, burying it to try and sink the line of discussion. Valeyard your description topics started for the "heart attack" part is a lie obvious to anyone who will check the sections. "Heart" does not appear anywhere in archive 5, and in archive 6 the first one to mention "heart attack" in the "casualties afterward split" is YOU. As for the September 13th "statements from Heyer's mother" section, that is a followup to the september 8 "cause of death" section where user:DIthewave posted concerns about people adding this to the article. The difference of topic is that rather than discussing whether that is a reliable source to Heather's CoD (it obviously is not, this was a grieving parent not a medical professional's statement), it is discussing what exactly was said, the reactions it caused, and whether or not the reactions (or reactions to the reactions) were notable. The present "medical report" topic is me acknowledging your valid concern over conspiracies, and what better way to combat theorists than to provide the report showing CoD is blunt force trauma and not heart attack? You regularly falsely accuse me of supporting the heart attack theory when I have never done so, and here was actively cooperating with you to debunk it. GoldenRing or Mr. X you haven't explained how my discussion of easily summarized details like Camry/CoD are disruptive. Discussing content is part of collaboration. I think I've been cooperative so far with consensus, dropping the topic for MONTHS after the irrational anti-color gangup. I came back when learning new information I had not previously discussed, to see if that new detail would be worth acknowledging. I think it is worth considering that the ones disrupting the article are the ones who keep removing valid sourced information from it based on personal feelings of aesthetics, as if their personal aesthetics are more important than being an encyclopedia. Words like "Camry" or "black" or "sedan" are short and cheap, look at the massive character count, how much would they really clutter? Informing people of detail is what encyclopedias do, and without us conveying that info, readers will not be easily able to tell which sources share details like these. ScratchMarshall (talk) 08:46, 2 January 2018 (UTC) User:GoldenRing re special:diff/818251390, it seems like exaggeration to me that discussing general details like the model of car (which, since they are different, allows easy reference) is "all possible details". There are other less important details which I have been aware of but so far not even broached upon. The black Toyota Tundra (pickup truck) visible on the right side of the Challenger, for example. I haven't brought it up because even though it was there, the Challenger did not collide with it. The GVF 1111 license plate of the Dodge Challenger is a detail I similarly did not actually add to the article, I merely asked on the talk if anyone thought we should bother including it. The license plate wouldn't help people discuss the incident like memorable brand names like Challenger/Camry would, nor to understand video/photographs the way colors do. I believe this is probably why the sources I cited to support the information decided it was valuable to mention these details moreso than others. Rather than adding all possible information (ie original research, I personally saw "Toyota Tundra" in an image but didn't bother to check if any sources commented on it) I only added notable information reported on by reliable sources, which established their noteworthiness via the writers' decision to include them. "Complete exposition" would be doing things like listing the names of the other people who were there and have tweeted/facebooked about it. I didn't do that because while there were some isolated stories, it didn't seem well-covered enough to focus on. ScratchMarshall (talk) 19:50, 2 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by Ryk72 On review of the diffs in the initial filing, it appears that there has been some misunderstanding. The initial diff31 does not show ScratchMarshall reinserting contentious material; it shows an insertion of reliably sourced information, in line with mainstream views on the subject. Neither do the next two Talkpage diffs32 33 show discussion of the material included in that first diff. The next 3 diffs do show removal of contentious content; but this is not the content which was added by ScratchMarshall. I am not a mind reader, but it would seem that with the first diff, ScratchMarshall has understood the objections of other editors to previous content, taken those objections on board, and acted accordingly. I cannot see that a sanction is warranted based on the evidence presented. - Ryk72 14:23, 2 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by SMcCandlish Outsider view: Agreed with Ryk72 and Sandstein. There's nothing AE-actionable here, even if some of this seems to wander into WP:TE and WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE territory. This should have been taken to WP:ANI, and can if the issue continues. I tend to agree with ScratchMarshall's defense, point-by-point, but that's kind of not the point. A pattern can still be unconstructive even if no particular action in it was expressly sanctionable. So: a) Those who feel he's being disruptive need to make an actual case, not some "flailing with poorly-supported fingerpointing" thing. b) Scratch should take the hint and not make them build that case, since if they do then ANI will surely act on it, probably with the requested topic ban. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ< 00:39, 3 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning ScratchMarshall This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. I can't quite follow this request. As to diff 1, the restrictions prohibit "reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion)". The report does not indicate that the content at issue was previously reverted. Talk page objections are not reverts. As to diff 2, the report does not make clear which previous edit this diff is a revert of, and what the diff of the previous revert by the same user is. It can't be diff 1, because there is nothing in the report to suggest that diff 1 is a revert. Without a previous revert, diff 2 is not a 1RR violation even if it is in fact a revert. Sandstein 22:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC) Thanks for adding to the report. Diff 1 is still not actionable, in my view, because the text at issue in it ("died by blunt-force injury to the chest") does not seem to have previously been reverted. According to the wording of the restriction, it is not enough that the edit is contentious, but imposing a sanction requires that the content has been previously reverted. Diff 2 is also not actionable because I see no prior revert by ScratchMarshall that has been reported. 1RR prohibits the same user from making more than one revert in 24 h. But as reported, ScratchMarshall made only one revert. I would therefore take no action in this case. Sandstein 00:07, 29 December 2017 (UTC) @Sandstein: I think you're probably right that we don't have a strict 1RR / consensus required violation here. But I think the links to discussions by TheValeyard are pretty clear that this editor is disruptively pushing detail, often the same detail repeatedly, into an article where the material would be undue and the consensus is pretty clear that it doesn't belong. This seems to me obviously disruptive and something needs to be done about it. My gut reaction is a 3-month topic ban from the article in question, but would be interested to hear other thoughts before I go and do it. GoldenRing (talk) 11:47, 1 January 2018 (UTC) I see your point, but I'm reluctant to impose an AE sanction for talk page conduct that is not patently and obviously disruptive. We're not, I think, at that point yet, based on the material submitted here. The "car model" stuff is just weird, and while the "heart attack" material may well be motivated by non-neutral reasons (as e.g. described here), this is still ultimately a content disagreement, which is outside the scope of arbitration or AE. We only sanction disruptive conduct, not the questionable motives editors may have. Sandstein 13:30, 2 January 2018 (UTC) I take your point, but this has been going on for some months now and the editor's responses here show that they still don't get it.@ScratchMarshall: I suggest you go and read WP:NOT. In particular, A Misplaced Pages article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details, but a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject. Understanding this is pretty fundamental to editing here. GoldenRing (talk) 13:48, 2 January 2018 (UTC) @ScratchMarshall: You're not getting this. Information doesn't belong in the encyclopaedia because it is true, or because it is verifiable, or because it is useful to someone. We aim for a "summary of accepted knowledge" about a subject, and if you can't see that the sorts of detail you're pushing aren't part of a "summary of accepted knowledge" then you're going to keep on running into trouble, whatever topic you choose to edit. You should be able to see that, because the sort of detail you're pushing has been rejected repeatedly over a period of months. The message here is that you need to recalibrate your internal "what is significant to go in an article" gauge, because it is out of step with the community's. GoldenRing (talk) 16:47, 3 January 2018 (UTC) It may appear "Consensus required" has been violated, but this is such a nebulous restriction, I'm loathe to enforce except under the most obvious of circumstances. Otherwise, I agree with Sandstein. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 14:28, 1 January 2018 (UTC) The consensus required provision does not apply to talk page conduct, neither does the 1RR restriction. Close as no action is my call here. I will close as such if no other administrators intend to comment. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 13:54, 2 January 2018 (UTC) @Coffee:I think this has got to the stage of being disruptive, and the editor's most recent response here (paraphrase: "I didn't mention every possible detail so the stupid amount of detail I did mention can't be a problem") show's they're not getting it. If you're set on no sanction, I won't get in the way, but would appreciate any close at least including an appropriate warning. GoldenRing (talk) 13:49, 3 January 2018 (UTC) Coffee's on holiday now. Doug Weller talk 17:01, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

No action. ScratchMarshall is warned that his views on how much detail is appropriate in an article are out of step with community expectations. Continuing to push excessive detail over a long period becomes disruptive and may lead to sanctions in the future. GoldenRing (talk) 10:59, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning ScratchMarshall

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: K.e.coffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: ScratchMarshall (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics_2. The article (Unite the Right rally) is currently under ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIES, including:

Limit of one revert in 24 hours
Consensus required
This article and its editors are subject to Misplaced Pages's general sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy

At 21:47, editor inserted contentious material about a recently living person against Consensus required clause on the Talk page. Several editors had previously objected to this material at 21:14; at 20:05, etc.

The purported cause of death was reverted from the article multiple times (not originally inserted by Scratch): ; ; . The Talk page discussion with Scratch (Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally#More_stuff_that_looks_like_it_belongs_in_reactions) includes: You have been told this countless times. So I take it that Scratch knew the edit would be contentious. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:16, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

This revert at 19:48, combined with the edit above, appears to violate 1RR clause, as it's in addition to the edit at 21:47 that the editor knew was contentious.

First edit by Scratch was: . It was reverted here: . Scrat then reinstated it here: .

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

The editor was alerted in August 2017 about the DS sanctions on the same article here: .--K.e.coffman (talk) 22:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

There are multiple prior discussions and warnings on the user's Talk page that pertain to the same article:

"Caution: Personal attacks directed at a specific editor on Talk:Unite the Right rally"
"Please stop your disruptive editing at Unite the Right rally"
: "PA warning"
: The DS alert linked includes a specific warning: "Particularly troubling is your turning that car thing into a "collision". Setting aside the question of the categories, that's pure POV editing. (...) 02:47, 29 August 2017 (UTC)"

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Editor has been notified here: .

Discussion concerning ScratchMarshall

Statement by ScratchMarshall

special:diff/817497032 at 19:48 was me identifying the struck sedan as a Toyota Camry per Duggan of WashPo
special:diff/817511202 at 21:47 was me identifying the cause of death as blunt force injury to the chest, per Porter of NewsWeek

First I'll explain how K.e.coffman is misrepresenting the Camry issue. In Special:Diff/817496708 my larger edit was indeed reverted by ValarianB. However the summary said "This edit made proper grammar into atrocious grammar". Valarian did not actually object to my mention of the Camry in the summary, only the larger rephrasing that I did. On that basis, I was not restoring what Valarian's revert targeted (the grammar) but only the Camry identification, which Valarian did not object to. Thus my summary "minimalist restoration of details". Valarian's revert threw the baby out with the bathwater. Since only bathwater (grammar change) was objected to, and not baby (Camry ID) restoring it was not a restoration of what Valarian objected to, so this was an entirely separate edit and not a 1RR violation, because I did not "revert" Valarian's reversion, I noted his objections and made a completely different edit which did not change the grammar and only simply added the data.

Second I'll explain how K.e.coffman is misrepresenting the COD issue. This is not "contentious" material at all. We already had consensus regarding that we should not state Heather Heyer's cause of death as being a heart attack based on her mother Susan Bro's comments during an NBC News interview. Our discussion was on whether or not we should mention those comments or the news coverage reactions to them generated. It was not on whether or not to list the official COD, which is blunt trauma, not heart attack.

The "several editors" K.e.coffman refers to are:

special:diff/817499023 Grayfell at 20:05
special:diff/817506831 K.e.coffman at 21:14

The problem is that both of these were replies to special:diff/817480803 where I was discussing Noor Al-Sibai's article regarding the "heart attack" quote, which did not mention "blunt trauma" at all. K.e.coffman is inaccurate in saying that these were "previous objections to this material" because it was different material we were discussing.

Re the "multiple prior discussions and warnings"

special:diff/796258874 August 19 Power~enwiki decided to leave a message conveying personal opinions that a car killed Heather Heyer, despite there being no actual statement regarding manner of death released at the time. Given that Newsweek didn't report on it until October 17, I don't even think cause of death being blunt trauma had been mentioned at the time. Power~enwiki's false accusation of my making "disruptive edits" was thus at the time, based on pushing a personal PoV which violated WP:BLPCRIME.
special:diff/797772479 August 29 Drmies left thea false accusation of the word "collision" being "Pure POV editing", even though that word has been used in news coverage of the event, for example "Man accused in fatal Charlottesville collision back in court". Editors who persist in inserting the word "attack" are clearly upset by neutral language in accordance with WP:BLPCRIME like this. I do not put stock in people who levy false accusations and then abuse the flooding of templates on those they disagree with to try and frighten them away.
special:diff/797802477 August 29 Doug Weller left an ambiguous warning without actually specifying the accusation. I followed up on his talk page: User_talk:Doug_Weller/Archive_46#request_for_clarification and Weller accused me of not AGF whilst ignoring people who already not AGF and harassing me. Weller calls "check a mirror" a personal attack when he accused me of not AGF, but if accusing someone of not AGF is a "personal attack" then this would be Weller admitting to engaging in personal attacks himself. Weller has been WP:INVOLVED with this article from the outset (check the talk archives) and was not a neutral party in warning me. He was ignoring unwarranted attacks on me and falsely portraying me as the attacker when I was simply defending myself. Situation was:
- Party A: "X is true. B is biased for saying Y." - no reason given
- Party B: "Y is true because reason. Given A persists on X without evidence, A may be the one who is biased."
- Party C: "B is making personal attacks against A! Stop doing that B!"
special:diff/798752997 September 3, Acromion responded to Special:diff/798752389 saying it was "moving into personal attack territory" where I said "abusing reversion" and "dogpiling" regarding Valerian's behavior. This was at Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#Color_of_other_2_vehicles where Weller had already weighed in to agree with Valerian (thus being WP:INVOLVED). Notable things supported do not become "excessive" or "trivial" based upon the unsourced personal opinions of Wikipedians. None of them were actually making arguments, just stating a lack of interest, or a lack of understanding of the value of detail, thus "dogpiling" did and still does seem appropriate for that, and it continues today.

Re Sandstein, your suspicions are correct, diff 2 is not a 1RR violation, and not a revert at all. ScratchMarshall (talk) 00:01, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by TheValeyard

How do we deal with an editor who brings up the same topics over and over and over and over again? I'm trying to sift thru the maze of restrictions and rules that cover political pages, is there anything along the lines of "being super-unable to stop beating a dead horse" ?

Look at this, Scratchmarshall has brought up the same topic, which has garnered zero consensus among editors at the article, over several months

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally#OR_regarding_triviality_of_Toyota_Camry

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#Color_of_other_2_vehicles

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_5#what_is_brand_of_white_car_which_Dodge_Challenger_hit_then_pushed

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_5#Best_source_saying_Heyer_was_hit_by_Challenger

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_4#license_plates_and_car_brands

Here's the topics started for the "heart attack" part, a notorious alt-right meme attack

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally#Medical_report_and_chest_injury

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#Cause_of_death (initiated by another user but Scratchmarshall takes same argument tack)

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#statements_from_Heyer's_mother

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_6#casualties_afterward_split

Talk:Unite_the_Right_rally/Archive_5#clarifying_Heather_Heyer_location_during_Challenger_incident

Am I crazy or is this overboard? TheValeyard (talk) 00:32, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't much matter if sentiment is leaning against any finding of wrongdoing, but the silly assertions of and in archive 6 the first one to mention "heart attack" in the "casualties afterward split" is YOU are prime examples of the belaboured nitpicky focus this user has subjected editors to over the last few months. My, quote, "first mention", was to rebut this users suggestion that a casualty sub-article be created. The user then invoked the term "heart attack" as a part of subsequent arguments no less than a dozen times. What this behavior does is drive people away, so when say 10 people object the first time around, it drops to 7 on a repeated attempt, then 5 and on and on. Argument by exhaustion, it poisons the talk pages and makes everything just unpleasant.

I've had my last say so do what you will. TheValeyard (talk) 04:45, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Add'l statement by K.e.coffman (filer)

This has started with Scratch posting to my Talk page: "Your redaction", where he linked to this diff from the article's Talk page, which I had redacted two months ago. It looks like he's unable to let go of this fringe theory, and it's becoming disruptive and possibly BLP violating. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:48, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Statement by MrX

Sandstein is correct that there is no technically sanctionable violation of an editing restriction, however GoldenRing is correct that the behavior of Scratch Marshall is disruptive pushing of detail. In fact, it violates the principle of consensus, which is plainly established for this aspect of the subject. I agree with the idea of a narrow topic ban from the article (and related articles), but since this manner of editing from ScratchMarshall has been ongoing for nearly five months, I think the topic ban should be for at least six months, if not permanent, based on the WP:POV pushing evident in their contributions to the article.- MrX 14:16, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm reading some comments wrong, but there seems to be a misconception by a few people that AE is only for sanctioning editors that breech article editing restrictions. That is simply not the case. Relentless editing against consensus is exactly one of the behaviors that Arbcom cases sought to stop in the two AP cases. Whether this case requires a sanction is a judgement call. - MrX 01:56, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Add'l statements by ScratchMarshall (target)

Apparently a followup is fine so I have responses.

firstly to K.e.coffman: you appear to be implying I agree with the fringe theory. I do not. I simply think the best way to deal with it is to acknowledge it is being spread (as sources show) and that it has been discredited, and supply the leading theory supported by the medical report. My objection here is that by censoring confused people who post that, they'll just keep posting it and nobody will actually be educated.
Valeyard: it is not the "same topic" if I am bringing up new details. The recent discussion of the 2nd sedan's brand being "Camry" for example, I have never brought up before, I only recently learned of it. I view it as valuable when we are talking about a situation of 2 sedans making contact, to be able to discuss their brands. We already do so for the Challenger, doing so for the Camry is following an existing pattern. The archives you have linked to are on separate topics. A4 was asking about brands. A5 had Spem Reduxit suggest indictment sheet, implying to me agreement that it is valuable. I JethroBT said "until sources discuss it" regarding brand. Sources DO discuss it now, imlpying Jethro would now clearly see the value in how it is relevant to the content. A6 was you pushing the idea that car colors are trivial despite multiple sources commenting on color. You prematurely closed the conversation with under 2 weeks of activity, burying it to try and sink the line of discussion.
- Valeyard your description topics started for the "heart attack" part is a lie obvious to anyone who will check the sections. "Heart" does not appear anywhere in archive 5, and in archive 6 the first one to mention "heart attack" in the "casualties afterward split" is YOU. As for the September 13th "statements from Heyer's mother" section, that is a followup to the september 8 "cause of death" section where user:DIthewave posted concerns about people adding this to the article. The difference of topic is that rather than discussing whether that is a reliable source to Heather's CoD (it obviously is not, this was a grieving parent not a medical professional's statement), it is discussing what exactly was said, the reactions it caused, and whether or not the reactions (or reactions to the reactions) were notable. The present "medical report" topic is me acknowledging your valid concern over conspiracies, and what better way to combat theorists than to provide the report showing CoD is blunt force trauma and not heart attack? You regularly falsely accuse me of supporting the heart attack theory when I have never done so, and here was actively cooperating with you to debunk it.
GoldenRing or Mr. X you haven't explained how my discussion of easily summarized details like Camry/CoD are disruptive. Discussing content is part of collaboration. I think I've been cooperative so far with consensus, dropping the topic for MONTHS after the irrational anti-color gangup. I came back when learning new information I had not previously discussed, to see if that new detail would be worth acknowledging. I think it is worth considering that the ones disrupting the article are the ones who keep removing valid sourced information from it based on personal feelings of aesthetics, as if their personal aesthetics are more important than being an encyclopedia. Words like "Camry" or "black" or "sedan" are short and cheap, look at the massive character count, how much would they really clutter? Informing people of detail is what encyclopedias do, and without us conveying that info, readers will not be easily able to tell which sources share details like these. ScratchMarshall (talk) 08:46, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
- User:GoldenRing re special:diff/818251390, it seems like exaggeration to me that discussing general details like the model of car (which, since they are different, allows easy reference) is "all possible details". There are other less important details which I have been aware of but so far not even broached upon. The black Toyota Tundra (pickup truck) visible on the right side of the Challenger, for example. I haven't brought it up because even though it was there, the Challenger did not collide with it. The GVF 1111 license plate of the Dodge Challenger is a detail I similarly did not actually add to the article, I merely asked on the talk if anyone thought we should bother including it. The license plate wouldn't help people discuss the incident like memorable brand names like Challenger/Camry would, nor to understand video/photographs the way colors do. I believe this is probably why the sources I cited to support the information decided it was valuable to mention these details moreso than others. Rather than adding all possible information (ie original research, I personally saw "Toyota Tundra" in an image but didn't bother to check if any sources commented on it) I only added notable information reported on by reliable sources, which established their noteworthiness via the writers' decision to include them. "Complete exposition" would be doing things like listing the names of the other people who were there and have tweeted/facebooked about it. I didn't do that because while there were some isolated stories, it didn't seem well-covered enough to focus on. ScratchMarshall (talk) 19:50, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Ryk72

On review of the diffs in the initial filing, it appears that there has been some misunderstanding. The initial diff31 does not show ScratchMarshall reinserting contentious material; it shows an insertion of reliably sourced information, in line with mainstream views on the subject. Neither do the next two Talkpage diffs32 33 show discussion of the material included in that first diff.
The next 3 diffs do show removal of contentious content; but this is not the content which was added by ScratchMarshall.
I am not a mind reader, but it would seem that with the first diff, ScratchMarshall has understood the objections of other editors to previous content, taken those objections on board, and acted accordingly. I cannot see that a sanction is warranted based on the evidence presented. - Ryk72 14:23, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by SMcCandlish

Outsider view: Agreed with Ryk72 and Sandstein. There's nothing AE-actionable here, even if some of this seems to wander into WP:TE and WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE territory. This should have been taken to WP:ANI, and can if the issue continues. I tend to agree with ScratchMarshall's defense, point-by-point, but that's kind of not the point. A pattern can still be unconstructive even if no particular action in it was expressly sanctionable. So: a) Those who feel he's being disruptive need to make an actual case, not some "flailing with poorly-supported fingerpointing" thing. b) Scratch should take the hint and not make them build that case, since if they do then ANI will surely act on it, probably with the requested topic ban. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ< 00:39, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning ScratchMarshall

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I can't quite follow this request. As to diff 1, the restrictions prohibit "reinstating any edits that have been challenged (via reversion)". The report does not indicate that the content at issue was previously reverted. Talk page objections are not reverts. As to diff 2, the report does not make clear which previous edit this diff is a revert of, and what the diff of the previous revert by the same user is. It can't be diff 1, because there is nothing in the report to suggest that diff 1 is a revert. Without a previous revert, diff 2 is not a 1RR violation even if it is in fact a revert. Sandstein 22:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for adding to the report. Diff 1 is still not actionable, in my view, because the text at issue in it ("died by blunt-force injury to the chest") does not seem to have previously been reverted. According to the wording of the restriction, it is not enough that the edit is contentious, but imposing a sanction requires that the content has been previously reverted. Diff 2 is also not actionable because I see no prior revert by ScratchMarshall that has been reported. 1RR prohibits the same user from making more than one revert in 24 h. But as reported, ScratchMarshall made only one revert. I would therefore take no action in this case. Sandstein 00:07, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

@Sandstein: I think you're probably right that we don't have a strict 1RR / consensus required violation here. But I think the links to discussions by TheValeyard are pretty clear that this editor is disruptively pushing detail, often the same detail repeatedly, into an article where the material would be undue and the consensus is pretty clear that it doesn't belong. This seems to me obviously disruptive and something needs to be done about it. My gut reaction is a 3-month topic ban from the article in question, but would be interested to hear other thoughts before I go and do it. GoldenRing (talk) 11:47, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

I see your point, but I'm reluctant to impose an AE sanction for talk page conduct that is not patently and obviously disruptive. We're not, I think, at that point yet, based on the material submitted here. The "car model" stuff is just weird, and while the "heart attack" material may well be motivated by non-neutral reasons (as e.g. described here), this is still ultimately a content disagreement, which is outside the scope of arbitration or AE. We only sanction disruptive conduct, not the questionable motives editors may have. Sandstein 13:30, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

I take your point, but this has been going on for some months now and the editor's responses here show that they still don't get it.@ScratchMarshall: I suggest you go and read WP:NOT. In particular, A Misplaced Pages article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details, but a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject. Understanding this is pretty fundamental to editing here. GoldenRing (talk) 13:48, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

@ScratchMarshall: You're not getting this. Information doesn't belong in the encyclopaedia because it is true, or because it is verifiable, or because it is useful to someone. We aim for a "summary of accepted knowledge" about a subject, and if you can't see that the sorts of detail you're pushing aren't part of a "summary of accepted knowledge" then you're going to keep on running into trouble, whatever topic you choose to edit. You should be able to see that, because the sort of detail you're pushing has been rejected repeatedly over a period of months. The message here is that you need to recalibrate your internal "what is significant to go in an article" gauge, because it is out of step with the community's. GoldenRing (talk) 16:47, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

It may appear "Consensus required" has been violated, but this is such a nebulous restriction, I'm loathe to enforce except under the most obvious of circumstances. Otherwise, I agree with Sandstein. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 14:28, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
The consensus required provision does not apply to talk page conduct, neither does the 1RR restriction. Close as no action is my call here. I will close as such if no other administrators intend to comment. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 13:54, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

@Coffee:I think this has got to the stage of being disruptive, and the editor's most recent response here (paraphrase: "I didn't mention every possible detail so the stupid amount of detail I did mention can't be a problem") show's they're not getting it. If you're set on no sanction, I won't get in the way, but would appreciate any close at least including an appropriate warning. GoldenRing (talk) 13:49, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Coffee's on holiday now. Doug Weller talk 17:01, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Nishidani

No action. GoldenRing (talk) 10:58, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Nishidani User who is submitting this request for enforcement Debresser (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:03, 3 January 2018 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Nishidani (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBPIA : Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it Nishidani's first revert Nishidani's second revert, a bit after 24 hours Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any Nishidani has a rich history of blocks in the WP:ARBPIA area, as well as voluntarily refraining from editing when caught redhanded but before being sanctiond Additional comments by editor filing complaint Especially galling is the fact that content wise I am correct: archeological sites are manged, geopolitical areas are controlled. The sourced used by Nishidani clearly do not support his claim, and are trumped up as filling only. Such editing should be condemned. Especially in the WP:ARBPIA area. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested @GoldenRing Then why did you block me when I made a revert some 3 hours after 24h? Now you show your true colors. I knew I didn't have much chance, but I just wanted to expose the hypocrisy of this forum. Debresser (talk) 09:42, 4 January 2018 (UTC) Discussion concerning Nishidani Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Nishidani Statement by Malik Shabazz I invite administrators to toss a boomerang to Debresser. For the relevant context, please see the past few days' history at B'Tselem and Talk:B'Tselem. Debresser doesn't like the way Nishidani spoke about his edit on that article, so he pursued this frivolous complaint about a trivial matter at another article. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 03:42, 4 January 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Nishidani This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. This is not actionable as reported. No specific arbitration remedy that is to be enforced is indicated, let alone how these edits are supposed to violate it. Sandstein 17:09, 3 January 2018 (UTC) DS does allow room for "these edits don't violate any specific sanction but they're disruptive and the editor should be sanctioned;" I agree this is a long way from that point, though. It's not even really close to a 1RR violation. GoldenRing (talk) 18:33, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

No action. GoldenRing (talk) 10:58, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Nishidani

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Debresser (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:03, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Nishidani (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBPIA :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Nishidani's first revert
Nishidani's second revert, a bit after 24 hours

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Nishidani has a rich history of blocks in the WP:ARBPIA area, as well as voluntarily refraining from editing when caught redhanded but before being sanctiond

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Especially galling is the fact that content wise I am correct: archeological sites are manged, geopolitical areas are controlled.
The sourced used by Nishidani clearly do not support his claim, and are trumped up as filling only. Such editing should be condemned. Especially in the WP:ARBPIA area.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

@GoldenRing Then why did you block me when I made a revert some 3 hours after 24h? Now you show your true colors. I knew I didn't have much chance, but I just wanted to expose the hypocrisy of this forum. Debresser (talk) 09:42, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Nishidani

Statement by Nishidani

Statement by Malik Shabazz

I invite administrators to toss a boomerang to Debresser. For the relevant context, please see the past few days' history at B'Tselem and Talk:B'Tselem. Debresser doesn't like the way Nishidani spoke about his edit on that article, so he pursued this frivolous complaint about a trivial matter at another article. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 03:42, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Nishidani

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This is not actionable as reported. No specific arbitration remedy that is to be enforced is indicated, let alone how these edits are supposed to violate it. Sandstein 17:09, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

DS does allow room for "these edits don't violate any specific sanction but they're disruptive and the editor should be sanctioned;" I agree this is a long way from that point, though. It's not even really close to a 1RR violation. GoldenRing (talk) 18:33, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Rod (User:Dailey78)

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Dailey78 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Rod (talk) 00:04, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed: I received a Topic ban from the Ancient Egyptian Race Controversy and similar articles in July 2014 for edits to articles that all admit are highly controversial.

WP:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/Log/2014#Ancient Egyptian race controversy

Administrator imposing the sanction: EdJohnston (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3AEdJohnston&type=revision&diff=818511476&oldid=818440397

Statement by User:Dailey78

It's been several years since the ban was implemented in July 2014. It's time for a fresh start and a lift to this ban, as it's now 2018.

Statement by User:EdJohnston

I am not in favor of granting this ban appeal. I've given a longer summary of the history here on my talk page. EdJohnston (talk) 01:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by User:Dailey78

Result of the appeal by User:Dailey78

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

We've been here earlier this year - an appeal that, frankly, didn't go well. As Dougweller suggested at the time, "Rod, what I would suggest is that you spend six months editing in other areas that interest you. There must be some, and if you can find areas that do have issues that require careful work within our policies where you can show that you understand and can work within them well, I believe an appeal would be successful.". Since the user hasn't actually edited since, I'd suggest that this appeal probably needs to end the same way. Black Kite (talk) 00:34, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
Agree with Black Kite. We need to see you editing other topics before we can judge if the issues that led to your topic ban won't crop up again. --NeilN 00:43, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
I agree with the above. Sandstein 09:12, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

DHeyward

Request concerning DHeyward

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Andrew Davidson (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 01:28, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: DHeyward (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons#May 2014 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

30 December 2017 DHeyward starts hostile section on Talk:Erica Garner This is the first of several edits which seek to disrupt and destroy this article. The subject was an activist in the Black Lives Matter movement, prominent supporter of Bernie Sanders and critic of Bill de Blasio, both being American politicians.
31 December 2017 Tags Erica Garner, suggesting that her life did not matter, which is a derogatory implication given her role in Black Lives Matter.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

2 December 2017 DHeyward}} is topic banned for 1 month from articles about living and recently deceased American politicians, and related topics, broadly construed.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 2 December 2017 by TonyBallioni (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

DHeyward is continuing to make vexatious attempts to delete and disrupt the Erica Garner topic, for example, at Misplaced Pages:Files for discussion/2018 January 3

For clarity, perhaps it needs stating that, by making the edits to the Erica Garner topic, DHeyward violated the topic ban placed on 2 Dec.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notification

Discussion concerning DHeyward

Statement by DHeyward

As of the filing, topic ban is expired. . Further it was limited to articles regarding Politicians and not other articles. Erica Garner is not an article about a politicians. --DHeyward (talk) 03:45, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

BU_Rob13 The admin imposing the retriction noted how narrow it was (a BLP DS limited to articles American Politicians). It's not an AP2 sanction and didn't broadly construe to talk pages, wiki spaces or any other articles. It came up before and was ruled narrowly with no adjustment to the sanction. It included an apology for a previous filing. It was not changed and certainly I've waited the appropriate time to be restriction free and avoided al larticles on American Politicians. --DHeyward (talk) 04:03, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

To repeat, the expired restriction was not an AP2 restriction. --DHeyward (talk) 04:15, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Zero0000 VM falsely states these are related to AP2 and my topic ban was an AP2 restriction. It was not. They are not. The reversal on Scarborough is a long standing smear and BLP violation. It's been removed numerous times. The others are unrelated to the restriction or after the restriction expired, which is not aP2. Also, they weren't significant or disrupive enough to even warrant a complaint. The restriction has expired and was extremely narrow as confirmed by the retraction of an earlier complaint. --DHeyward (talk) 04:21, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Zero0000 in turn here are VMs complaints that he didn't make when the BLP US Politiciaon articles was in place:

BLP violation corrected after expiraton.
Talk page comment,not an article edit. I was nort barred from talk page comments.
The Mandell article is not about an American Politcian. the restriction was a BLP restriction on articles about American Politicians, not a broad ban on American Politics. The edit was not challenged nor was I asked to revert or explain. Also, out of an abundance of caution, I self reverted . VM failed to note this.
This is also not an article about an American politician. It appears to me to be after the ban. Either way, it is not a violation of the very limited restriction. This was not an AP2 ban, it was limited in scope to American Poltician articles under the BLP arbco sanctions. I've avoided those articles like the plague since it was enacted. A complaint after expiration is pointless and is punitive rather than prevantive. the vultures arrived after the ban ecpired and their motives are clear. --DHeyward (talk) 04:45, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Cbs527 review the log and sanction. It was not an AP2 sanction. It was a restriction on "articles" about "American Politicians" filed under the BLP arbcom case. Nothing else was restricted. The narrow scope was confirmed in a previous discussion. I stayed away from bios on American Politians per the restriction and further clarification that it "only" incuded biographical articles on politicians. --DHeyward (talk) 04:56, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

MastCell Really, how can I operate when this was the "clarification." . I am not in violation s I've avoided all articles in the clarification. --DHeyward (talk) 05:04, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Zero0000 MastCell see self reversion above that VM failed to mention. --DHeyward (talk) 05:13, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Zero0000 And per this WP article, the Scarborough removal] complied with BLP by refusing to link him to a conspiracy that he murdered an employee. BLP exenption is obvious per the Washington Post. . We don't permit smears. Are you stil arguing I should be sanctioned for this edit? --DHeyward (talk) 05:37, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

TonyBallioni TonyBallioni Joe Scarborough was BLP edit over a longstanding consensus. If you like, review the Article for Deletion. The deceased person had her article deleted in 2006. Even Jimbo weighed it. We don't allow baseless conspiracy theory smears on living people. Even smears by Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton didn't have Vince Foster killed either and you can try to insert that conspiracy theory to her article but it will be reverted by a number of editors (and by me regardless of your ban as it's a blatant BLP violation just like Scarborough) . --DHeyward (talk) 08:21, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

My edit to Scarborough was not a vio. It seems the majority of commenters are piping up after the ban expired over stale edits. --DHeyward (talk) 09:50, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Sir Joseph

I suggest an immediate close to this, and a super-duper trout to the complainant. Sir Joseph 01:36, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Erica Garner was not a politician. Being an activist does not make you a politician.

And finally, now that other diffs were brought in showing political relations, it should be echoed that the TBAN expired a couple of days ago. So again, I reiterate this should be closed with a large trout.

Zero0000 The TBAN is expired so what TBAN violation is there?

Statement by Winkelvi

Really, Andrew Davidson? I second Sir Joseph re: trouting. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 02:03, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Volunteer Marek

This edit is a pretty straightforward violation of the topic ban (de Blasio is a American politician)
This edit is an even more blatant violation of the topic ban (it's about Donald Trump)
This edit is also a blatant violation of the topic ban (not only is it about an ambassador but also Obama)
Another blatant violation. It's about Michael Flynn. I mean, if that doesn't violate the topic ban, I don't know what does.

There's a few more topic ban violations (ex. ) but the four right above pretty clearly show that DHayward apparently figured that no one was paying attention over the holidays and decided he could violate his topic ban with impunity.

@Zero0000: - the topic ban is "broadly construed" and applies to "related topics". But even that doesn't matter since DHayward's violations of the topic ban are pretty blatant.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:25, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Based on past reports, the appropriate action here is a short (day or two) block and a resetting of the topic ban.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:34, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

@DHeyward: says "Zero0000 VM falsely states these are related to AP2 and my topic ban was an AP2 restriction. It was not" - this is an outright lie. I never said such thing. His topic is from articles on American politicians and related topics (such as de Blasio, Trump, Obama and Michael Flynn, all of whom he made edits about BEFORE his topic ban expired). The fact that DHeyward is trying to pull a fast one here should be an acerbating factor in any sanctions being considered. Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:57, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Malik Shabazz

I recommend administrative action. Please see this edit, in which DHeyward restored shitty material (poorly written and misspelled) to the lead section of Blue Lives Matter, an article covered by WP:ARBAP2, with a personal attack in the edit summary. To be honest, a revert like that makes me wonder whether DHeyward is competent to be editing. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 03:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Cbs527

Nominating an article for a merge and commenting on an image is "hostile" or "disruptive"? Nonsense. None of the examples the the complainant/article creator has given seem to violate the topic ban. However, the examples Volunteer Marek provided above clearly do violate the topic ban and occurred during the topic ban time frame. Since the topic ban has expired I'm not sure what actions can/should be taken at this point. CBS527 04:10, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by D.Creish

MastCell: your last visit included several edits and a partisan comment on Carter Page. You shouldn't be commenting in the "uninvolved administrators" section. D.Creish (talk) 05:16, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Kingindian

I suggest that the problem lies with the phrasing of the topic ban more than any action by DHeyward. In an earlier AE request by TonyBallioni, who instituted the topic ban, Sandstein clarified: The topic ban was phrased as "topic-banned from articles about ... politicians and related topics". This means that the ban encompasses only politician-related articles, not politician-related edits. While the edits here are related to politics, the article as a whole is not related to any specific politician. This left DHeyward in a state of uncertainty.

Therefore, all the edits mentioned by VM are not really violation of topic bans. I suppose Joe Scarborough could tenuously qualify (since he's a past politician), but he's a TV anchor now, so I don't think one can reasonably call it a violation. The other one which could qualify is on the talk page of Michael Flynn. As far as I know, talk pages are generally covered under topic bans, but DHeyward seems uncertain, and the talk page comment wasn't disruptive.

I suggest:

No action here. The topic ban has already expired, and there's no need for sanctions based on past violations which may not be violations.
In the future, topic bans should be standardized (it would have been best to use something like ARBAP2) so that everyone knows where they stand. Topic bans (for example in ARBPIA) are usually about edits, not pages -- since the purpose is to keep the person away from topic area. And talk pages should be covered unless specified otherwise.

Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 05:42, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Scarborough hasn't been a politician for 17 years. The lead describes him as is an American cable news and talk radio host. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 06:49, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

@TonyBallioni: Yes, you said what I said, except that you were less precise: "former" in this case means "17 years". If you wanted the ban to be so "broadly construed", why didn't you just topic-ban from ARBAP2? Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 07:06, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

About the Scarborough edit, please read this talk page section and this WaPo article. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 07:46, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Ryk72

In the 20/20 vision of hindsight, the topic ban really should have been the standard AP2 topic ban, or nothing at all.

The wording, which bans the editor from mainspace only, and only then pages relating to American politicians, explicitly not American politics, is neither clearly topic ban nor clearly page ban. It leaves a wide corridor of uncertainty at its edges. The clarification in the previous, withdrawn, AE filing makes things no clearer. There was opportunity for explicit clarification of the logged sanction at the time; it is a pity that it was not taken. As it was not, it left open the possibility of edits like those complained about here; with a reasonable expectation that they were not within the scope of the ban.

There are rare times when I disagree with Kingsindian. This is not one of them. Endorse their recommendations in full. - Ryk72 07:04, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning DHeyward

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

All I can find here are examples of DHeyward using legitimate processes to advance a content disagreement. I don't find anything actionable. Zero 01:43, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
Oh, now I get it. The question is whether the articles in question here fall under the banner "articles about living and recently deceased American politicians, and related topics, broadly construed". If they do, there is a topic-ban violation here. My initial impression is that articles about activist in US political movements do fall under the topic ban. Zero 02:09, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

The additional topic-ban violations brought by VM seem rather blatant and I don't think that a warning covers it. I propose the ban period be restarted, plus a warning that further violations may lead to a long block. Zero 03:59, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

@Sir Joseph: It makes no difference if the topic ban has expired now. It only matters whether forbidden edits were made before the topic ban expired. None of this is stale either; it is quite recent. Zero 05:14, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

@DHeyward: Yes, your 19th Dec edits at Robert A. Mandell concluded with a self-revert so we can discount them here. Zero 05:18, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
We don't even need to make a determination like that, Zero0000. Topic bans cover "parts of other pages that are related to the topic" even if the page itself isn't related to the topic. An edit directly related to an American politician is a topic ban violation even if the page has nothing to do, generally, with American politicians. I recommend a strong warning that the next violation will result in a block and an extension of the topic ban to 1 month from the close of this discussion. I'm not a huge fan of a block here, but if there is a block, no more than 31 hours. ~ Rob₁₃ 03:45, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
It would appear, from the diffs provided by Marek, that DHeyward has repeatedly violated his topic ban over the past month. (Technically, there are two possibilities: A) he didn’t realize that he was violating his topic ban, in which case he lacks the competence to edit a highly charged topic area, or B) he realized that he was violating his topic ban but made the edits anyway. DHeyward claims A), while B) seems rather more plausible. In the end, the distinction is academic since the remedy is the same in either case).
The proper remedy here is not a warning. If warnings were effective in this case, we wouldn’t be here. DHeyward has already been warned, and topic-banned. The proper remedy is a block and a reset/lengthened topic ban (of 3-6 months), ideally with less wiggle room in the wording for wikilawyering and feigned incomprehension. MastCell 04:52, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
Since I was pinged: the topic ban was for articles about living and recently deceased American politicians, and related topics, broadly construed. I see one unambiguous topic ban violation here with an edit to Joe Scarborough, who is a living American politician (he was a member of congress), and is certainly a closely related topic even as a political commentator. I also believe that this edit violated the topic ban as a closely related topic since Robert A. Mandell is a political appointee to an ambassadorship and the material that DHeyward inserted was about his political fundraising for Obama. The edits in the original filing by Andrew Davidson are more borderline, but considering that the article at the time discussed Ms. Garner's political activity during the 2016 campaign for Bernie Sanders, and that she is an American political activist, I would consider her a related topic more clearly than the previous filing under Kris Paronto. By my count, even by the narrowest construction, there is one direct edit to article space of an American politician, and two to clearly related topics. I will not be adding sanctions myself here, as the last time my attempt to make them narrow led to confusion, but I would support MastCell's suggestion of a new broader topic ban with clearer wording. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:16, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
- I'll also add, per Zero0000, that since the Robert A. Mandell article ended with a self-revert, I don't think it alone would be enough for sanctions. I'm also not particularly convinced by the argument that edits to the Flynn talk page don't count, since talk pages are typically viewed as extensions of the article for TBAN purposes. If it had just been these on their own, I would be inclined to let this go with a warning since one was reverted and the ban did say article. At the same time, I do think combined though we have at least one unambiguous TBAN violation on an American politician and related topic, one on a recently deceased political activist who is a related topic, one violation that was reverted, and one potential violation on the Michael Flynn talk page. Taken as a whole, I think that does paint the picture MastCell describes. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:33, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
- Kingsindian: he's a former congressman who has been the subject of frequent political speculation on the possibility of his running for office since his retirement and who is a political commentator on one of the big three US cable networks. This doesn't even get into the frequent issues he has been having with Trump. His article is an article on a living American politician, and related topics, broadly construed by any reasonable definition. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:58, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
  - Kingsindian, I would echo MastCell's comments to DHeyward here to you: if you really think that Joe Scarborough is not covered by this topic ban, you really shouldn't be commenting on things related to American politics. TonyBallioni (talk) 07:10, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
I'd have to agree with Tony that some of the diffs should fall into the "broadly construed" language (and were within the 1 month ban); I'd also consider that a ban placed Dec 2 for a month does not expire until Jan 2, not Dec 30/31 (which some of these edits are). There's reasonable course for further action here. That said, I would also suggests a very large trout if not something stronger (like an admonishment) for Andrew's assessment of the diffs, which show an incredible degree of bad faith and attempts to personalize the issues and mis-characterize the intent of the revert/removal, particularly the " suggesting that her life did not matter" by suggestion of a merge). We absolutely do not need editors trying to go that direction. --Masem (t) 07:33, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
In cases such as this one, where a violation of a discretionary sanction by a still-active administrator is alleged, I'm of the view that the sanctioning administrator should decide what to do about it. Sandstein 09:11, 4 January 2018 (UTC)