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An entry from Ems Ukaz appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 20 November, 2006. |  |
CM Brotherhood
Do we know how significant was Shevchenko's association with СM? There were lots of legends created later that Shevchenko was a leading member and even a "close friend" of Kostomarov.
The fact is that Shevchenko was rather young at the time and definetely not the most significant member or thinker of the society at that early stage of his life. For example in the book "The Lands of Partitioned Poland, 1795-1918", by Wandycz at al, University of Washington Press, ISBN 0295953586 (p. 250) it says that Kostomarov was the CM chief ideologist and Shevchenko is called the "main artist", not much of a political role. "The Ukrainians", by Andrew Wilson Yale University Press, 2002, ISBN 0300093098, (p. 99), says that CM society "included Kostomarov, Kulish and indirectly Shevchenko). Of course Shevchenko has later become the best known of them all, therefore some sources tend to overemphasize his role, but even our article on him (Taras Shevchenko) says correctly that he was probably "not an official member of the Brotherhood".
There were plenty of other significant for that time figures that got into trouble when the CM was shut down, such as Panteleimon Kulish and Vasily Belozersky. No need to overemphasize Shevchenko in this context, I think. We can mention him in other places of the article since his career was certainly affected by the Ukaze. --Irpen 16:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
- I just thought Shevchenko's initial arrest was a good landmark, in that readers who are only vaguely familiar with Ukrainian history would know of it, even if they haven't heard of the C-M Brotherhood. And as opposed to the ukaz affecting his career, this is a case where an event in his life contributed (in a very minor way) to setting the stage for the subject of this article. But feel free to remove if you don't agree. —Michael Z. 2006-11-18 18:15 Z
- I won't want to remove, just some kind of rephrasing because in the current form Shevchenko's role in CMB seems overblown. We are not talking about his role in UA culture, which was immensed, but in the narrow context of the article. --Irpen 18:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
- But it doesn't say anything about his role in the brotherhood. How about "In the 1860s, a decade and a half after the Brotherhood of Sts Cyril and Methodius in Kiev was broken up, its founder Nikolay Kostomarov exiled, and poet Taras Shevchenko arrested for his suspected association with them?" —Michael Z.
Sounds good to me. --Irpen 21:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- Also, I removed the last phrase. Stalin's crack down on Ukrainian is unrelated to Ems Ukaz in any way. Besides, according to my sources it started from 1931 and not 1929. Perhaps, the policies related to 1920s should go as well. The article is about Imprerial Russia's policies which came to a logical end in 1917. --Irpen 21:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- The ukaz has a much wider importance than just as a legal document, or even as just a policy which was in effect for a fixed period. It is part of the history of the development of the Ukrainian language and nation, and an indicator of how they were seen and dealt with by the Imperial regime. It's important to put this in its historical context, both before and afterwards. It certainly doesn't waste too much space to include a single clause which mentions that the language was encouraged for a dozen years, only to be repressed again.
The landmark date for the reversal of Ukrainization was the Stalin/Molotov telegram to the Central Committee of the CP(b)U dated December, 1932. From Олександр ТЕРЕЩЕНКО, УКРАЇНСЬКЕ ВІДРОДЖЕННЯ НА ПІВДНІ РОСІЇ :
Але успіхи українізації в Україні та Російській Федерації, в кінцевому підсумку, викликали негативне ставлення з боку вищого партійного керівництва в Москві. В грудні 1932 року на адресу ЦК КП(б) України і в деякі регіональні партійні органи Росії була направлена телеграма за підписами Сталіна і Молотова, в якій українізація безапеляційно засуджувалася як непродумана і шкідлива кампанія. Місцевим органам наказувалося "немедленно прекратить украинизацию в районах, перевести все укринизированные газеты, книги и издания на русский язык и до осени 1933 года подготовить переход школ и преподавание на русский язык" --Irpen 23:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
I want to compliment the authors. The article is informative and even-handed. Thanks, Ghirla 15:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
unclear
These sentences lack sufficient contexts to be understood:
- "Sunday schools and hromada cultural associations were closed and their publications stopped."
- What are "hromada" and what publications are referred to? You can't "publish cultural associations"!
- "A new translation by Pylyp Morachevsky of parts of the New Testament was vetted and passed by the Imperial Academy of Sciences, but rejected by the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox church, because it was considered politically suspect."
- Was that translation in Ukrainian? The context implies it, but there's no way to be sure. In which year did this happen? 1861? 62? 63?
Circeus 15:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the publications: the Russian Empire had neglected education for decades, and a lot of religious, cultural, and nationalist organizations ran their own schools and educational programs. I'd have to do a bit of reading to be able to present it correctly in the article, though. —Michael Z. 2006-11-20 17:54 Z
Prohibiting mova...
Did anyone read this interpretation of the Ems decree? What do you think? (Igny 16:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC))