Talk:Superpower - Misplaced Pages

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Lede needs to be changed

China is clearly a superpower now, and the opinion of a dictator like Putin isn't reliable. (81.136.23.142 (talk) 02:13, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Putin's quote in 2016 is reliable. China hasn't done anything differently than it did a year ago. Supergodzilla2090 (talk) 03:30, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

China has been a superpower for years now. Economically, industrially and militarily. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 13:11, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

The IP is right. The Russian President may be considered a reputable source on the topic of geopolitics (though that is disputable), but he is certainly not impartial. Giving his view prominence like that is a breach of WP:NPOV. The statement "according to ~~Russian President Putin and~~ other sources, this has remained unchanged." is actually uncited. No source claims that no other source considers China a superpower. Rather it is that the editors of this article simply haven't found any sources claiming this to be the case. Editors of this article need to learn what Misplaced Pages is about.

All encyclopedic content on Misplaced Pages must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic.

Only a minority of sources claim China to be a super power. So we should proportionately represent this view and provide counter arguments as to why it is a minority view. Not pretend this view doesn't exist.

Rob984 (talk) 14:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

China is the world superpower now. Putin's view is irrelevant as he has never won a free election. He has his own reasons for claiming the US as the only superpower, because China could easily bankrupt Russia at any moment. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 15:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Your POV is also irreverent. Find some sources, please. Rob984 (talk) 16:10, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

There are thousands of sources online describing China as the world superpower. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 17:45, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

There are also thousands of sources online claiming evidence for aliens or magic. We need named, specific, and reliable sources. And it is up to those suggesting inclusion of new contents to provide these. Without such sources we cannot even begin considering inclusion of new information. Arnoutf (talk) 18:44, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

China has the largest and most powerful army in the world. So of course it's a superpower. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 18:48, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Provide a source plesase. Arnoutf (talk) 19:13, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

There are multiple sources saying China and Russia are both superpowers: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/07/china-russia-superpower-axis (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 19:17, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Did you even read that article? The only time superpower is mentioned is, is in the heading, and even there accompanied by a question mark. Please do your homework before just dumping something in this discussion. Arnoutf (talk) 20:28, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Here is a source from 2011: http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/07/13/china-seen-overtaking-us-as-global-superpower/ (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 20:50, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Which is about an opinion poll among non-expert citizens and does not list any factcheck. Arnoutf (talk) 21:15, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Who is an expert on the definition of a superpower? At the very least the lede needs to mention that China is widely seen as a superpower/emerging superpower in the early 21st century. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:DDA5:7D80:4101:B8A2 (talk) 23:23, 22 January 2017 (UTC))

Tell me who an expert is, and define widely seen please. Arnoutf (talk) 18:10, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

I'll use some plain Texan talk here, a lot of people are stupid, and as such "widely believed" by non-academics isn't reliable, in fact I think that would fall under WP:weasel. China is a great power, there is no doubt, but they have several crippling weakenesses that place them solidly in the "not-superpower" category. I will compare them to what experts call the sole superpower, or even hyperpower, America. You mention industry, that one may be true. Economically is a solid no, while they make propaganda about their solid lack of private debt, that's pretty easy when you are communist, take a look at public debt sometime. Military, don't make me laugh, their military isn't the weakest of anyone, but it would only meet great power at a maximum. It is a pretty well established fact that America could wipe the floor with China. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 18:50, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

The United States was defeated by China in the Korean War and that was long before China had thousands of nuclear weapons. China owns so much US debt that it could easily bankrupt the US economy at any time. There were reports on the BBC today about China surpassing the US, and how they would destroy the American economy if Trump started a trade war. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:1CF8:7C96:457B:2A83 (talk) 20:50, 24 January 2017 (UTC))

1. They were pushed back but rapidly repelled the chinese, before it stalemated. 2. China still doesn't own thousands of nukes, it only has about 260. 3. That's entirely wrong, China has been rapidly selling off holdings of US debt, as of recently Japan owns more than them. 4. The thing about them destroying the economy is that it would require America to agree to pay its debt. I am 100% certain that Trump would tell China to procreate with itself, therefore doing little damage to the economy, and making China's hold of the debt politically worthless. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 21:30, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

China also defeated America in the Vietnam War. You are just in denial - China is the world economic and industrial superpower with a vast modern military, and the US is rapidly heading for its "Suez Crisis" moment. The election of Trump just speeded up the inevitable. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:1CF8:7C96:457B:2A83 (talk) 22:02, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

This is just WP:FORUM. Cool. It's more likely that when America has its "'Suez Crisis' moment", there will be no more superpowers. World has become far too multipolar. The great powers can't just throw their weight around like they use to. As China grows, so are many other emerging economies. It still a few years before China's GDP surpasses the US or EU's. Also its growth rate is slowing down. Get reliable academic sources, then we can discuss. Rob984 (talk) 22:48, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

China surpassed the declining EU years ago. The EU is breaking up and won't exist in a few years. (2A00:23C4:638C:4500:1CF8:7C96:457B:2A83 (talk) 23:48, 24 January 2017 (UTC))

Get reliable academic sources, then we can discuss. Arnoutf (talk) 16:38, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

The United States were never defeated by China in a war, especially not in the Vietnam or Korean War. The Korean War doesn't have a winner or loser since the conflict is still going on. Redman19 (talk) 08:33, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Agree with Arnoutf and others: "Get reliable academic sources, then we can discuss."--Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 09:40, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

China was vital in helping Vietnam defeat the illegal US invasion. The US lost the Korean War when MacArthur was fired. (86.150.124.127 (talk) 17:29, 30 December 2018 (UTC))

Map inaccuracies

The 1945 world map has several bits that seem to be the wrong colour. New Zealand is shown as fully part of the British Empire, unlike Australia, Cananda or South Africa, while the effective British control of Egypt and Soviet control of central Europe are not shown. Any thoughts on this? — FIRE! 14:18, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I am not sure what either of the two maps brings to the article, as shown by the United States territory has nothing to do with being a superpower. MilborneOne (talk) 14:42, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

I just uploaded an edited version to Commons, with central Europe, Mongolia and northern Iran assigned to the Soviets, Greece, Egypt and southern Iran assigned to the Brits, Iceland assigned to the Americans, and New Zealand independent. Though actually, I think you're right. There are too many nuances for a map to ever be very accurate, and it could only ever be a snapshot at most. No objection if you change my changes back, or get rid of the map from this page altogether. — FIRE! 14:48, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

The third Reich?

Wasn't the third Reich a superpower at it's time? Same question for the Japanese Empire?! Falco iron (talk) 22:01, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

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Should Global policeman be merged here?

Thoughts? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 18:32, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

In my opinion, no. Because not all Superpowers wanted to have global hegemony and snooped around in every nation's affairs, of course they liked power but many also had certain morals which limited them from doing things like this. E.g. Cyrus the Great advocated for the self-ruling of non-Iranian peoples, which were the majority of people he conquered, and encouraged them to be more active in their affairs. It also seems like a relatively new idea which began with the actions of the British Empire and continues today with the USA. Migboy123 (talk) 01:30, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

BE sourcing

I think we need to discuss the weighting and viability of sources used for including the British Empire in this article. This is causing problems elsewhere. Only one author (Fox) - a contemporary commentator, not a historian - is actually cited as treating the British Empire as a super power; all the other sources used (few that there are) refer back to him. No doubt there are others, but without evidence it does not seem right to present this as historical consensus, especially as it is contentious. The weighting here should be adjusted to reflect weighting in reliable sources. The article should also include caveats like, for example, that the term was only applicable to the BE was a brief period after it was coined. Wiki-Ed (talk) 10:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

The British Empire was without a doubt a Superpower in it's time. It controlled 25% of the world's landmass, a feat which no other of the great superpowers of the past have been able to accomplish, although this can be attributed to technological advancement over time, it is without a doubt that Britain had a superior economy and naval fleet. There should be reliable sources cited but it's without a doubt British Empire was a superpower. Migboy123 (talk) 01:33, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Can these be considered Superpowers?

Can these empires really be considered Superpowers: Carthaginian Empire, Aksumite Empire, Almoravid Empire, Mali Empire, Inca Empire? I'm concerned with the Incan Empire because they were so isolated they weren't nearly as technologically advanced as the global powers at the time. They didn't even have a system of finances but rather still bartered for goods. Thoughts?Migboy123 (talk) 01:33, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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1 AD to 2003 AD Historical Trends in global distribution of GDP China India Western Europe USA Middle East.png

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