Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Atsme (talk | contribs) at 04:26, 25 August 2019 (→Very disconcerting: this is just not right). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

• v
• t
• e

Articles

14085 ↓382

Oldest article

5 years old

Redirects

1513

Oldest redirect

30 days old

Article reviews

2821

Redirect reviews

6921

• There is a very large articles backlog

• WT:NPP/R

This page is for New Page Reviewers to discuss the process with each other and to ask for and provide help to fellow reviewers. Discussion also takes place on our Discord server (invite link) For discussions on other matters, such as bugs, etc., please navigate through the tabs, or go to the discussion pages of the relevant policies. For discussion on topics purely relevant to coordination tasks, such as for example - but not only - Backlog Drives, etc., please post at Coordination Talk

Top New Page Reviewers database report (updated by bot 2x daily)

NPP backlog

Archives

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50 51, 52

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 8 sections are present.

Archives of Page Curation: 1, 2, 3, 4. 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 8 sections are present.

Articles over 90 Days Old

I just want to note that we now have hundreds of articles that are unreviewed and are older than 90 days sitting in the queue. This was a bit of a shock to me when I just discovered it and thought that this has perhaps snuck up on some other reviewers as well. After our big spike in the queue between April and June we seem to be headed back in the right directionoverall but the oldest side of the queue could probably use a bit more attention and so if you're doing some patrolling consider patrolling from that end. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:46, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Barkeep49, Thanks for bringing this to attention. I'll try to help out a bit at the back in the coming days. Cheers, — Insertcleverphrasehere _{(click me!)} 22:55, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, it needs attention. I try to hit 15-50 articles at the back end when I begin my NPP each day. I think we should all start there. Onel5969 02:16, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

I'd go further: we should be focusing all of our reviewing on the back of the queue until we fall back under the 90 day mark. _signed, Rosguill 07:09, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

They are likely coming from the AfC queue, but need attention anyway.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:20, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Ymblanter, unfortunately the data doesn't support that. April 8 is the first date which has a bunch of articles and 6 of the 10 articles did start in draft/userspace and were moved later to mainspace. However if we go to April 17 (e.g. day 91) in the queue only 8 of the 84 articles started in draft space, 2 of them were moved that same day, and the rest were moved April 18, April 20, April 21 (x2), May 1, and May 2 (and none of them I'll note were AfC accepts). I suspect that general pattern holds up - the closer we are to 90 days the more articles there are yet to be reviewed and the greater percentage of which did not start off in draft/userspace. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:49, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Indeed, I patrolled some of them, and they seem to be coming genuinely from the queue. Probably we indeed need a drive.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:43, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

• This is actually quite serious because there could be any amount of totally inappropriate content about to be handed to Google. The only answer is for our (sadly far too few) active reviewers to have a systematic drive at the back of the queue. It's my guess however, that a lot of them may be the more difficult ones that are getting left 'for someone else to do'. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:59, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• I'll try to do as much as possible in the coming days/weeks, in addition to my other edits at Misplaced Pages. I think organising a GOCE-like drive would be a good idea. --MrClog (talk) 17:55, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
• Just so I understand, any article created in the NPP pool prior to April 23 (if today's date is July 23) can simply get moved to the mainspace without review? Onel5969 02:42, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I don't think so. They should be reviewed when we see them. We can't always catch them, but we should when we are able by whatever oddity of the system--and we should consider trying to get a query for unreviewed articles of any date. We shouldn't however panic: here have been many times over the years where the queue has gotten past 90 days. And until a few years ago, new articles went into Google immediately. Not even counting the higher standards over the years, there remain in WP perhaps a hundred thousand inappropriate older articles. (rough estimate--I think for the first 10 years we reviewed or autoreviewed only about 9/10 the articles, which would make about 400,000 unreviewed. & see WP:Size of Misplaced Pages for the size of WP in earlier years. Remembering the days before we had Draft, possibly 1/4 of them were never appropriate. Even if my proportions are 2-fold over estiates, that's 25,000 inappropriate) . DGG ( talk ) 06:28, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

@Onel5969: Any article in the article pool older than 90 days has been indexed by Google (and for knowledge panel purposes this means indefinitely). This means that BLP violations, Spam, etc could theoretically be indexed. Ideally unreviewed articles (how many ever there are) which are in the queue would be less than 90 days old. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 06:34, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

DGG and Barkeep49 Thank you both for the info. Very enlightening. Onel5969 12:00, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

• Whatever happens, BLP, subtle spam, and COPYVIO should be given the highest priority at the back of the queue. Always bearing in mind that rather than speed, quality and depth of patrolling and the use of correct CSD criteria are essential to good reviewing. Sloppy reviewing is not an option. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:30, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Initial thoughts - autopatrolled redirects

Related to phab:T227250#5363710, I'd like to see what people think of a potential bot task to automatically patrol redirects (and only redirects) created by users in a pseudo-user group.

Proposal

A new pseudo-user group is created for users that do not meet the requirements for Misplaced Pages:Autopatrolled but have a consistent track record of creating "clean" redirects.

Precedent

Prior to the creation of the autopatrol user right, User:JVbot/patrol whitelist was used to control a bot that would automatically patrol articles created by certain users. A similar set up would be used to control User:DannyS712 bot III, which would automatically patrol redirects created by certain users. Redirects that are later converted into articles are added back to the new pages queue (phab:T223828).

Discussion

Pings: @Rosguill, Barkeep49, MusikAnimal, Insertcleverphrasehere, Kudpung, CAPTAIN MEDUSA, Elmidae, DGG, and Onel5969: --DannyS712 (talk) 00:35, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

What do people think of this idea? This is not an official proposal at this time, I am merely trying to assess if this should be pursued. Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 00:32, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

• DannyS712, Sounds better than the current system where there are just way too many to patrol and many just fall off the back of the queue. — Insertcleverphrasehere _{(click me!)} 00:43, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
• Conceptually that sounds fine to me. In general I think reviewer time is better spent on articles than redirect so ways of minimizing the redirect queue sounds like a win to me. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:07, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
• Is the bot still ran manually? I would not support this sort of pseudo-user group unless the mechanism to auto-patrol is fully automated. Let's say you create 200 redirects in the span of a few hours. You must wait for the human to run the bot when they wake up for them to be patrolled, all the while patrollers are reviewing those redirects unnecessarily. That aside, WP:PERM is as hectic to administrate as ever, so I'd be hesitant to add another thing for people to hat-collect unless we really need it. Maybe the list could be internally maintained here. But it's better I think that we attack the root of the problem. We'll find out soon if we can extend the backlog for redirects (phab:T227250), and phab:T92621 should help with the redirect->article->redirect scenario. We can also discuss increasing the rate limit on patrolling redirects, specifically, since that seems to be holding some of you back (and fast reviewing of redirects is realistic, as opposed to articles). — MusikAnimal 01:16, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
• It's a good idea but impractical and invites too much new bureaucracy for little gain. I fully concur with MusikAnimal.. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:06, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
• I too agree that this is not a priority. Articles are the priority. DGG ( talk ) 04:40, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
• I have to agree with MusikAnimal, this user right may be for people to hat-collect. ___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 11:28, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
• I support this proposal. I don't meet the requirements for autopatrolled but I do create a lot of redirects when reviewing request on WP:AFC/R. Or we could just restart the bot. Masum Reza 00:48, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

co-ordinators

In the last NPR newsletter, it said "announcing details of a possible election for co-ordinators". So has anyone stepped up to be one?___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 15:20, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

In the last newsletter it said: Our next newsletter might be announcing details of a possible election for co-ordinators of NPR. If you think you have what it takes to micro manage NPR, take a look at New Page Review Coordinators - it's a job that requires a lot of time and dedication. (The bolding is mine). If, and only if, the election takes place, candidates will be provided with the venue for putting themselves forward. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:56, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Kudpung, thanks for the clarification. ___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 11:25, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Wishlist

Insertcleverphrasehere, do you have any idea what this means precisely? Phab is still an enigma to me. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:11, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Kudpung, It means making the NPP toolset available to be used on other language wikis. — Insertcleverphrasehere _{(click me!)} 12:01, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Insertcleverphrasehere, yes I know that, but is that the reason why they are delaying the work on it for us? I never understand all the different statuses and progress. Sometimes a non WMF dev just breezes into Phab and shunts smoething off into a holding bay. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:41, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Kudpung, Not sure. Sorry. — Insertcleverphrasehere _{(click me!)} 00:26, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Time away from NPR

Hey everyone I just wanted to drop a line here and let y'all know I'm still around work right now has been very crazy and they have implemented mandatory overtime for the foreseeable future. This is why my NPP activity and Wiki-activity in general has been scarce in general lately. I will try to get back to normal as soon as I can. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 09:47, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

thank you for note--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 16:23, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Question

—usernamekiran(talk) 14:26, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm sure it's in there somewhere, but a quick question. What exactly triggers the disappearance of the curation toolbar (or link in tools to bring it back). I'm guessing it (???) days and reviewed? 30 days? (as that's what special:new pages says and shows) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ched (talk • contribs)

@Ched: yes, the curation toolbar stays for 30 days since after the page is marked as reviewed. But sometimes it gets disappeared in a week too. To bring it back, I usually add the code at the end of the address bar in the browser. I don't remember it now, and I am on mobile. But you can see that in a page with with toolbar. It is similar to the noredirect thing. —usernamekiran(talk) 14:30, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Usernamekiran, do you have that link? I can't find documentation of it and recently had wanted to use it. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:39, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Appending ?showcurationtoolbar=1 to the address bar will reveal the toolbar, though no guarantee to work all the time. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:51, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

@Barkeep49 and Ched: apologies for the delayed reply, even with this page being in my watchlist, and the ping. I was going to post the same code as Ammarpad has posted above. Like he said, it is unreliable. And for redirects, one can use &redirect=no This comes handy especially if you are on mobile, and dont want to switch to desktop view. —usernamekiran(talk) 04:06, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Page Curation Update - FEEDBACK NEEDED

IFried (WMF) and the team have continued to be at work updating the NPP toolset. Our request for 'Potential Issues' from ORES should be flagged in Page Curation Toolbar Page Info flyout is now live. Yeah! There are a couple other areas under development where some feedback/discussion among us seems like it would be useful. I'm creating separate sections for those two below. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Adding a "Potential COI" alert to the feed

Through discussion this turned into a request to use Abuse Filters 148 and 149. In her latest update IFried wrote: "Here is what we propose:
We indicate if there is a match between the username and article title.
We don’t indicate if there is a match between the username and external links in the article. This is due to technical complexities, which would make it difficult to consistently and accurately provide useful data. We came to this conclusion after discussing username + link matching in greater depth. If you would like more technical details, we can certainly share them.
Since this work will specifically check one form of potential abuse, we think this feature should be renamed. Rather than calling it “Potential CIO” alert, we can call it “Username in Article Title."

With this in mind, we have two questions for you:
If we go with this proposal, will this be satisfactory? Or do you feel that it’s not useful in its current scope?
If we go with this proposal, do you prefer that we only check new users (i.e. the current behavior of AbuseFilter 148) or all non-autopatrolled users? If we choose the latter, this may give the “Username in Article Title” some additional functionality that is not found in the current AbuseFilters."
Does anyone have thoughts on the two questions? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

• Potential COI is also potential UPE. It should be possible for the system to detect if the obvious (not so obvious to all reviewers) hallmarks are found for paid editing and flag the article as such in the feed. I've already mentioned this recently somewhere but I can't remember where. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 19:38, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

  Kudpung, so is that a "No it's not useful in its current scope?" Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:37, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Check all users.

Indicate if there is a match between the username and article title. Call it 'Potential COI'

Indicate if the criteria for paid editing are met. Still call it Potential COI'

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:55, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

• Would it be possible to run a check on the article creator's userpage (not just the username)? They may have an innocuous username, but display on their userpage that they work for the relevant company (through a standard COI disclosure statement, or just in plain text). GirthSummit _(blether) 19:41, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

@Girth Summit: That would probably take more time and programming than we have available to us at the moment. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:24, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

IFried (WMF) posted a more detailed explanation of this on meta and so you can read and/or respond there if you're interested. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:24, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Send Message to creator without needing to 'unreview'/'re-review' the article

In order for this feature to work they will need to separate the review from feedback buttons. I have indicated this is no problem. They will also need to call on a specific template, Template:Sentnote-NPF for this to work. The toolbar started calling on that new template already and Bradv created a redirect to the existing message template, Template:Reviewednote-NPF. Do we want identical templates in this scenario? If not someone can do some work there (ping to Winged Blades of Godric who I know has done NPP template work in the past). Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:46, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure what we've actually been asking for here. I have been expecting something on the lines of:

1. Tagging, but leaving unreviewed: Thank you for creating xxxxxx. A reviewer has tagged the article as needing your attention before it can be accepted for indexing by search engines."
2. Tagging, but passing as patrolled: The standard message, with the message details completed by the reviewer.
3. A further idea: For all new articles passed as patrolled, a thank you template with a few (really just a few) links to help pages, the Teahouse, and 'Your first article'. Most of the new articles are created by new users and this would also help demonstrate that there are a humans behind Misplaced Pages. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 19:52, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry for not being clearer. What's being asked here is what do want the template Sentnote-NPF to look like? Right now it's redirecting to Reviewednote-NPF. Is that what we want or do we want a distinction between the two? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:36, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Barkeep49:

1. New template: "Thank you for creating xxxxxx. A reviewer has tagged the article as needing your attention before it can be accepted for indexing by search engines.""

2. Template:Reviewednote-NPF

3. A new template that should automatically be sent when an article is passed as patrolled without further comment.

Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:48, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Kudpung, so returning to this #3 is outside the scope of this project and would have to go on a new wishlist and so I'll add it to the suggestions page shortly after this reply. IFried (WMF) can correct me if I'm wrong but I sending a message to a user is now completely separate from whether it's reviewed or not. So there might not be a way to to make both 1 & 2 happen. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 22:48, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Yup, Barkeep49, you're correct. We have decoupled two sections that were previously tied together: a) “mark as reviewed,” b) send a message to the creator process. They're now separate processes. With that in mind, we’re requesting that the community adds the following template: Sentnote-NPF. This template is already being called in the code, so we’ll need it added in order for the new custom message template (sent to page authors) to be available. Thanks. IFried (WMF) (talk) 16:57, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for this, Barkeep49. I have yet to put it to the test. I may be one of the the 'grandfathers' of NPP/NPR but although I still do a bit of patrolling and keeping a casual eye on things, I admit to not being entirely up to date with all the technical improvements we successfully called for in the last Wish list. If sending a message to a user is now completely separate from whether it's reviewed or not, is working, it's important and useful, while #3, while it would be nice, is not urgent. My argument is that it would serve as encouragement to new users whose articles have been reviewed, by showing them that there is a human interest in what they are doing - this would be in complete contrast to the myriad of templates pasted on new users' talk pages by the greatly abused 'Welcoming Committee'. Although it shouldn't be difficult to code, if we can't get it squeezed in somehow, let's definitely earmark it for the next wish list, although I think the wish list system is a terrible way of begging to get stuff done. There is plenty of money out there to do these things, but nothing much will change as long as the WMF continues to largely ignore the stakeholders in preference for the stuff that the devs themselves want to do.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:35, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

I think being dependent on the wishlist for improvements is less than ideal as well. You might have noticed (and putting it out there for others who read this and haven't noticed) that I made another suggestion which would hopefully be a top priority for any future wishlist to have things be less hardcoded. I look at all the amazing work happens with Twinkle and think that even a small portion of community talent brought to curation regularly could do some good stuff. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 23:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

WP:Twinkle is worth reading and I fail to understand to this day why the WMF did not develop Curation as a js gadget. Perhaps it's something to do with rivalry WMF vs the Community - Ryan could answer that one ;) However, it was offered to us as a compromise for their refusal of ACTRIAL so we weren't going to look the gift horse in the mouth. With ORES in the Feed and the current enhancements to the Curation tool, I do think we now have a very good set of tools for both NPP & AfC reviewers, with just a few more tweaks to make, but the progress on development is not as good as on Twinkle where the devs will quickly incorporate any new ideas or requested changes; the great advantage (for me at least) is that all the templates are user-configurable. On glancing through Suggested Improvements I note that this one is actually tracked at Phab. Perhaps in hindsight, it's probably kinda really what I was wanting above. Let's hope it gets done.

BTW, I'm still curious as to how Vincelord is reviewing new pages and why he is not using Curation. How do we maintain accurate stats if not all patrols are in the right logs? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:31, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Kudpung, presumably through twinkle or the "mark as patrolled" option which can appear in the lowerleft when page curation is turned off. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:39, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Template to use

If I hear no objection in the next day or so I will port over the current wording of Template:Reviewednote-NPF which reads:

Thanks for creating Article Name

NPP Reviewer's username while reviewing this page as a part of our page curation process had the following comments:

Comment

To reply, leave a comment here and prepend it with Re:NPP Reviewer's username}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with Barkeep49 (talk) 00:03, 12 August 2019 (UTC) .

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

This way the new send message feature, which would go live on the ability for us to send a message to the article's creator, regardless of whether or not we mark the article as reviewed. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 00:03, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Let's try it.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:35, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

I have now done this. See the current template at Template:Sentnote-NPF. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 23:49, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Something important I hadn't fully realized, but now the only way to leave a message is to click the "Add a message for the creator". Typing a message in the box and clicking review will not leave a message. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 00:23, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

We need to get this right. Messaging the creator should be made easier for the reviewers and encourage them to use the feature more often. Can you look into it? You know best where these things are tracked at Phab. Cheers. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:59, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Status Update for Project Posted on Meta-Wiki (August 20, 2019)

Hey, everyone! I've just posted a status update and a question for the community on the Page Curation & New Pages Feed improvements project page. IFried (WMF) (talk) 00:27, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

In case you don't want to click over, the update reveals that making the curation tool available to other Wikis won't be done. It also says that implementing sorting or filtering by page views of an article in the queue is not feasible but is it worth giving development time to just noting that information in the queue? I have give my thoughts on the discussion page and would encourage interested reviewers to do likewise. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:58, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Requesting Feedback on T207238: Special:NewPageFeed - add option to filter by pageviews

I posted this update on Meta-Wiki, but I'm sharing it on Misplaced Pages too, so we can get some more input (see details below)

• T207238: Special:NewPageFeed - add option to filter by pageviews and the associated spike: T225169: Investigate whether it's efficient to order by tag value (DBA input requested): This work presents significant challenges, but there may be an alternative solution.
  • First, the challenges (according to analysis from the engineering team): In order to filter/sort by inputted numbers, the numbers must be stored in the database in a specific manner. This first step alone would take several weeks, if not months, according to the estimates provided by Wikimedia database experts. Then, we would need to populate the sortable cells with pageview data, which comes from an external service. To do this, we would need to create a process that pulls the data from the external service and stores it in MediaWiki’s PageTriage table. Then, we would do this work repeatedly, so that the numbers would remain up-to-date, over the entire PageTriage database (which consists of tens of thousands of rows, if not more). This process is both uncommon (in MediaWiki servers) and complex; we would need to define this process and identify the correct way to implement it, in collaboration with Operations and Database experts. In total, we do not find the request, in its current form, within our scope. For more details on the technical analysis and discussion with the database administrators, you can check out the associated investigation ticket.
  • Second, the alternative solution (as described in the T225169 investigation): We could display the number of pageviews in the article record, without allowing for sorting or filtering. Would this be a satisfactory alternative to the community? And, if so, how would you like the number of pageviews displayed (e.g. average per day, median per day, total views in the last 30 days, etc)? Note that the results displayed will be from 24 hours earlier than the display time, and we’ll want to query from a maximum of 30 days ago (for the sake of general efficiency and manageability of this feature). We do not yet know if we can do this work — but, if we could, would it be worth our time and effort, in your opinion? IFried (WMF) (talk) 18:51, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

On masking IP addresses

The WMF has been thinking about the best ways to handle IP editing. The WMF-Community discussion is at m:Talk:IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation. This is of particular concern for NPP, AfC, and others who control new content and combat vandalism. Please consider joining the discussion and weighing in with your pros and cons. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 19:07, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Criminal: France, Criminal: Spain, Criminal: Germany, Criminal: UK

I don't know what to do about these. These are clone pages from the same user and the third one came online like this. I have warned them, but their standard approach seems to be to just blank the talk page, so it's not easy to get a clear picture of how they've approached editing here for the last 14 years. I thought about proposing a merge but these also seem to be WP:CRYSTAL (will film). I've come here because I thought it likely that by the time other editors get to them, they might not get a full picture like this. Advice? Usedtobecool  ✨ 21:12, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

This is the second editor I am aware of who goes heavy on the Netflix article creation. No time to do deeper thinking but I wanted to throw that out there as a thought. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 21:26, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Usedtobecool, I see that they're currently all marked as reviewed despite there not being any corresponding item in the article's logs? What's going on here? _signed, Rosguill 21:55, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Rosguill, it looks like JTtheOG reviewed them. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 21:57, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Rosguill I didn't even understand the question (too new at all this). But hopefully, Barkeep49's reply answers that. Surprised to find the Germany one was still going by France (I'd just assumed it'd be promptly corrected by the creator, so took the permalink quickly and left) in the lead sentence. I have just changed it. Usedtobecool  ✨ 22:12, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Usedtobecool, yeah Barkeep's comment cleared it up. You can find a page's logs (for all sorts of things, including page review) by clicking a link from their history page. For some reason, the patrol logging for these articles was not listed under "all public logs" but was listed under "patrol log". _signed, Rosguill 22:20, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Rosguill, I found the answer with Superlinks. I think it's by far the most useful script for NPP because of all that it shows you without leaving the article page. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 22:23, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

I'd suggest putting up a merge proposal for the lot - there's as yet no need at all for separate articles, and the cast lists could well be accommodated in one place as well. It would probably be a good idea to advertise such a discussion on the relevant project noticeboards - mergers of freshly created content often suffer from lack of page watchers. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 00:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

User Curation logs

Best Damn Brewing Co. (now at AfD where it should be, whatever the outcome), is shown as having been patrolled by Vincelord. However, their Curation log shows a total of only 7 pages ever being patrolled, which was in Oct/Nov 2018, whereas Misplaced Pages:Database reports/Top new article reviewers shows them to be one of the more frequent reviewers. Is this a bug, or am I looking in the wrong place, or just simply missing something? My own Curation log seems to be consistent and up to date. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:52, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

It isn't a bug – Vincelord just isn't using Page Curation. See his patrol log. — JJMC89 (T·C) 04:37, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Bangladesh towns

I keep finding, in the new pages feed, articles on Bangladesh towns / districts where editors are adding and then immediately after removing redirects. Eg. , , . I've asked User:Great Hero32 why they are doing this but they are not the only user doing this it seems. I can't fathom why they would be doing this, any ideas? In anycase, it's clogging up the new pages feed so unless there's a legitimate reason we should ask them to stop? Polyamorph (talk) 08:21, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

They've replied on my talk page. Seems to me to be an unnecessary burden on the new pages feed.Polyamorph (talk) 13:26, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

This is somewhat bizarre. I don't really understand the convoluted explanation they present, but my guess is that they may consider this the only method to create a new article - make a redlink, click on the link, then create the article following the prompt. Maybe if they were gently informed that they can just search for the term and work from the search result, or work from draft, this could be avoided? I agree that the current practice is annoying and borderline disruptive. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 15:57, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

OK, I've left the user a note, we'll see if it stops them. I think the IPs are the same user logged out for whatever reason. Polyamorph (talk) 16:27, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Copyvio tool down?

Earwig seems to be down for me. ∯WBG 09:35, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Transient or on your end? Works for me right now. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:06, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

It has been giving me spotty trouble, but if I click on it two or three times when that happens, it seems to go through.Onel5969 17:16, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

It sometimes happens to me too. It works if I refresh the page. Masum Reza 19:11, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

It's been down for several days. As a result, I've temporarily given up reviewing pages. Perhaps someone should report it to whomever is responsible for is upkeep. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:21, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I haven't had any issues with the earwig tool recently, which isn't helpful to you, but this notice has appeared which might help? "Update (16 August 2019): You may have seen an error about "JSON could not be decoded" recently. This should be fixed now. Please let me know if you continue to see it.". Cheers, Polyamorph (talk) 10:50, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

It works most of the time for me, and when it produces an error message, I just try again and am usually successful the next time. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:26, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Need someone to double check Draft:Charles N. Findley

Draft:Charles N. Findley is a memorial with a looong tail of material copied from another wikipedia article. I thought the subject was obviously non-notable, so I rejected it. I selected an option that I thought would link to WP:NOT but turns out it links to 5P (I think it's same difference but I don't know for sure). I don't know how to amend/take-back a review that's already posted, or where the page is that says which option generates what messages. So, it might take me awhile to find and read, to be able to know exactly what to do. I am also not sure if G11 is too insensitive for a memorial page. Advice, links to help pages I am looking for, appreciated. In the meantime, would someone care to look at the draft and fix anything that could have been handled better? Thanks!Usedtobecool  ✨ 15:46, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

There is an obituary "Findley, Charles N. 1986-2017". St. Joseph News-Press. 13 September 2017. which can be used for biographical details if the article on the disaster has a section discussing the victims. Otherwise I would suggest simply explaining our notability requirements to the author as you would to any one else. If the bulk of the material is copyvio and from Misplaced Pages either add a dummy edit with attribution or, since is is unlikely to become an article just G11 it -- for the sake of sensitivity maybe leave a personal note rather than a template on their talk page. Cheers. Jbh 18:44, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Ayoub El Amloud - for example

I know I keep droning on about this in various places, but this article is typical of the reason why I totally fail to understand why academics are considered non-notable by default until they have jumped through many, many hoops, but the quarter million bios about soccer players are nearly all like this. Something needs to be done about this kind of SNG. Maybe I'm just biased - I am an extremely rare breed of Brit who can't abide soccer. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:54, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

There was a discussion at the start of July which seemed like it might lead somewhere but ultimately I think people got tired of the conversation and nothing ended up happening. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:01, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

I expect it's because the demographics of our readers and contributors somewhat match that proportionality of "interested in soccer" vs "interested in academia", and consensus in the end is driven by these proportions. Vide Pokemon and friggin' wrestling :/ --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 02:39, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, there are a couple of other genres too that enjoy absolute minimal notability requirements, books and albums for example, but IMO, popularity of the subject is not a reason to debase our notability quality to almost nothing. Problem is that when this kind of thing goes to RfC, naturally all the soccer and Pokemon (what is Pokemon?) fans turn out to vote.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:35, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Very disconcerting

I am asking Kudpung, DGG and any other AfC/NPP reviewers who may be interested to please review the cited sources listed in this diff. Please do not comment at that discussion or I will be accused of canvassing. What I need to know from our experienced reviewers applies to the sources only, and if they are indeed (a) RS, (b) the information is verifiable, (c) the sources unequivocally establish the Catahoula bulldog as a notable breed, (d) does not require any OR on the part of the editor, and (d) the information provided by the sources is enough to satisfy GNG. Once I see the results, I will make a determination if I'm going to continue as a NPP volunteer. Thank you. _Talk 📧 01:24, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Atsme, the first thing is that Misplaced Pages does not categorize on whether a dog breed is notable. What we aim for is to establish if the subject is notable enough for inclusion. I've spent a precious hour this morning going attentively through that list of sources and without analysing them all individually here, without prejudice to the AfD closure at the time, I would say that GNG is met by enough of these sources.

Those of us who do a lot of NPP will certainly not win all our XFDs - I have one running at the moment which is being shot down in flames (I see now where I was technically wrong, but I considered the article to be run of the mill news however tragic). Of your 273 AfD votes, without considering "No Consensus" results, 82.3% of AfD's were matches and 17.7% of AfD's were not, and this is very good and the standard to be expected from an experienced editor. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:13, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Atsme, the first thing is that Misplaced Pages does not categorize on whether a dog breed is notable. What we aim for is to establish if the subject is notable enough for inclusion. I've spent a precious hour this morning going attentively through that list of sources and without analysing them all individually here, without prejudice to the AfD closure at the time, I would say that GNG is met by enough of these sorces all our XFDs - I have one running at the moment which is being shot down in flames (I see now where I was technically wrong, but I considered the article to be run of the mill news however tragic). Of your 273 AfD votes, without considering "No Consensus" results, 82.3% of AfD's were matches and 17.7% of AfD's were not, and this is very good and the standard to be expected from an experienced editor. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:13, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Kudz, this is about my work at WP:WikiProject Dogs and the mess we have in our encyclopedia. I don't think you are grasping the gravity of this situation. We've got advocacies wanting to euthanize dogs they say are bully types. It's horrible. I won't get into that here but something has to change because they are using WP to get recognition and validate these bully dog breeds so they can target them. That is not what WP is about. See my comment here and some of the sources being used to include a non-notable dog. They fail WP:V and WP:NOR - they're using sources based on anecdotal information - none of it verifiable. It's a joke. I'm about to throw in the towel, Kudz. I'm embarrassed that we have dog articles that are sourced to websites like this, and this...and that's what they're using to establish notability. _Talk 📧 04:26, 25 August 2019 (UTC)