Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini - Misplaced Pages

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Air France Khomeini return flight was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 19 December 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Ruhollah Khomeini. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to fail. the new article remain.Saff V. (talk) 06:47, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

@Rosguill: plz provide reasons to merge?

Comment: Ruhollah Khomeini's article is too long and it is necessary to be shortened. In addition, Ruhollah Khomeini's life in exile is extremely notable and supported by RS used in the article.I believe that none of four reasons is not true for this.Saff V. (talk) 14:24, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

@Saff V.: it seems like a case of overlap to me, and this article already has a fairly detailed discussion of Ruhollah Khomeini's exile–I was under the impression that merging the articles would only add a few paragraphs of length here, and would avoid creating a fork and having two separately maintained accounts of Khomeini's exile. _signed,Rosguill 17:46, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

There is no overlap or creating fork, in fact, the part of life in exile in Ruhollah Khomeini article is split into a new one, the Ruhollah Khomeini's life in exile. If you think that some material is same, (according to Splitting) you can move them into the new article and make that one shorter.Saff V. (talk) 06:42, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for speedy deletion

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Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

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New sanctions

Trump has announced new sanctions against him. --Auric talk 18:06, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Nobody:

America: places sanctions on a man who died in 1989

Cinefan Cinefan (talk) 18:14, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Anti-communism category

Albeit I did add Adolf Hitler and Margaret Thatcher to this category, since then I've realized that I don't really think specific people should be added to this category. Yes, they were staunchly anti-communist, but maybe something like could better fit? Cinefan Cinefan (talk) 16:29, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Staunch anti-communists seem to be most closely connected to the Anti-communism cat. I think the more nuanced Critics of Marxism is less relevant — a bit too scholarly and not mainstream enough. El_C 18:22, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Pov issue

@Stefka Bulgaria: the edit include the pov issue and undue weight problem. while it was mentioned that "Revolutionary Tribunals" had been the part of campaign to cleanse the society in this source, or in another source it was brought that Khomeini retorted that they were accused but were in factguilty, Abrahamian described that the aim of creation of the "Revolutionary Tribunals" was to continue implementing their version of the Shari’a, which is just pov of him and gives undue weight to article, because some sources (as I gathered) are opposite of it. Saff V. (talk) 12:04, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I just included a quote from a reliable source and author (Ervand Abrahamian is an Iranian historian). I think the statement is perfectly valid. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 08:57, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

@Stefka Bulgaria: Not only I did not say anything about the reliability of Abrahamian source, but also I am going to point to wp:due which demand that Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represents all significant viewpoints (based on their weight) that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources. As I brought material from other sources, there are various viewpoints about "Revolutionary Tribunals" but you just mentioned Abrahamian's idea.Saff V. (talk) 06:51, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

@Saff V., if you've found material from other sources, just add them to the article. As long as they meet WP:RS, then they will be ok for inclusion. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 17:21, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

what is the relation

@HistoryofIran: Please read carefully the edit summary, I did not say anything about the reliability of the source. I did not see any relation between 16 executions for crimes related to sexual violations and Khomeini? I wonder if you could explain it.Saff V. (talk) 13:40, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

I very well read your summary, and I never implied that you questioned the reliability of the source. They are clearly related as they have something to do with his reforms. Look, I'm not here to constantly hold your hand and explain things to you - WP:COMPETENCE, I've lost count of how many times I've linked this to you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:43, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93: I need your insight here, recently new section titled Homosexuality has been created in the article, but there is some material has nothing to do with the Homosexuality , for instance, these courts executed over 100 drug addicts, prostitutes, homosexuals, rapists, and adulterers on the charge of "sowing corruption on earth or In February and March of 1979, there were 16 executions for crimes related to sexual violations. It is the first issue with that.

Secondly, the source of these two claims Soon after the 1979 revolution, Ayatollah Khomeini established the death penalty for homosexuality. In February and March of 1979, there were 16 executions for crimes related to sexual violations is this book that the author referred the claim to another book. It is more interesting that in the footnote 31 of the later book, p.292 , the author has used email exchanges as a source of information! Can we rely on this and include material with such an unreliable source? Thanks!Saff V. (talk) 07:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

There is also a good New York Times source that includes a direct interview with Khomeini that we can include in this section. I will try to include it later today. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 09:21, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

There is any thing about the death penalty for homosexuality ordered by Khomeini in the interview published by New York Times. Please be more careful! In other hand the interview was recorded on 12 September 1979, how can this so close source to the event support the death penalty for homosexuality? Saff V. (talk) 09:42, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

The section is not only about the death penalty for homosexuality, but homosexuality as a whole under Khomeini's rule. Please stop asking me to "be more careful" for adding reliable sources to the article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 09:52, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Saff, your POV is showing (again), please consider your words more carefully and stop causing something out of nothing, it's getting rather boring at this rate. This looks a big case of WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT as well. This is what occured under Khomeiminis leadership, whether you like it or not. Last but not least, you have been told by various users in the Reliable noticeboard that the source is reliable, end off. HistoryofIran (talk)

@Saff V.: History books are always written based on less reliable primary information. The reliability derives not from the original source, but from the author's responsibility to verify it, and from the publisher's repsonsibility to fact-check what they are publishing. As such, I see no reason to discount this source, unless another equally weighty source has challenged that assertion. Vanamonde (Talk) 15:07, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

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