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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by MilHistBot (talk | contribs) at 17:20, 25 January 2020 (Ba Congress Passed A class review). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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A fact from Ba Congress appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 21 September 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Apparently, George Musulin was the envoy of the President of the United States? By what authority? He was a captainlieutenant in an intelligence unit attached to the Chetniks. Any source that makes this claim is inherently suspect. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:36, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
If an accurate reflection of the source, the claim is extraordinary, and requires an extraordinary source. I ask why this role as presidential envoy hasn't been mentioned in any other sources that discuss the congress. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:56, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
All sources that deal with this topic, I think including recently added one (diff), confirm that Musulin was an American citizen and an American military officer who was a member of the American mission that acted against the orders of American president. All sources agree that it was American president who ordered that Musulin should go to Chetniks in 1943 and that it was also American president who ordered that he should leave Chetniks later in 1944 (after Churchil made pressure to Roosevelt). I sincerely apologize if I am wrong, but I think that it would be extraordinary to claim that Musulin was envoy of anybody else except American president. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:05, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
I accept your apology, because you are wrong in a critical respect. Perhaps this is an issue with your understanding what an envoy means in English, which revolves around its meaning in diplomacy between countries. The fact that Musulin was an American and was present at the conference doesn't make him an "envoy of the president". To be an envoy of the president he would have had to be personally appointed by Roosevelt to represent him at the conference, which is a pure fantasy intended to make his presence more important than it was. Roosevelt didn't personally appoint Musulin, a lowly OSS lieutenant, to do anything. Musulin was an American officer that was attached to the British liaison team with DM and reported to his OSS superiors, not to the president, as an envoy would. There is no evidence that Musulin was appointed by the president or reported back to him. This is a ridiculous claim and I am removing it on the basis of BLUE. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:43, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
I disagree with this (diff) removal of assertion cited by more modern source. Musulin was present at the congress on behalf of somebody. Musulin was not there to act as ficus or to prepare and serve coffees. The source clearly say Musulin was present on behalf of US Army and American president. That corresponds with common sense and context given and supported by all sources on the topic. Plenty of sources refer to members of Allied missions with Chetniks or Partisans as envoys. If envoy is not correct translation (all dictionaries I saw online, including wictionary, say it can also mean "representative") it can easily replaced with better word. Now the text is factually incorrect and contradictory. It implies that Musulin was present in connection with British mission although British mission refused to participate or, as many sources say, they were not even invited. Please revert this edit.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:59, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
The source is clearly in error, and if your translation is correct, appears to be trying to make Musulin's presence more important than it was. This makes me concerned about the bona fides of the source. The fact that he was an American officer and attended doesn't make him an envoy or representative of the US president, or even of the US Army. He was clearly an observer not a participant, as there are no mentions of any discussions involving him during the congress in any source I'm aware of. He was attached to and under command of the British mission to the Chetniks, whether you like it or not. He even parachuted in with Armstrong, the British mission chief. Tomasevich states this clearly in two places, and even explains what the various command statuses of the Americans that were with the Chetniks between August 1943 and November 1944. Other more senior US officers (Seitz and Mansfield) were on an escorted fact-finding tour of occupied Serbia with Hudson and a Chetnik liaison officer at the time of the congress, a tour which had been approved by Armstrong but not cleared with OSS in Cairo. There was no separate American intelligence mission to the Chetniks until McDowell and his team arrived in August. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:54, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Multiple sources explain that Musulin held a speech during the Congress. Some sources even present pictures of him doing so. There is a scholarly consensus that the British Mission was not present at the congress. No valid reason for apparent refusal to acknowledge this and to revert problematic edit was presented. Also, there is no valid reason for another repeated (probably one of many thousands) unnecessary harsh comment against me (whether you like it or not). In order to avoid being subjected to this kind of treatment this will be my last comment in this article. This page is removed from my watchlist. All the best. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 15:52, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
If you have sources that state Musulin made a speech during the congress, you should add them and that information to the article. As I said, I am unaware of any. I did not state that the British officers were present, in fact I agree the sources say that they were not, only that Musulin was attached to the British mission, a fact you seem unable to accept. This needs to be included in the article because it explains why an American was in occupied Serbia. Finally, this repeated "picking up your bat and ball and going home" due to being over-sensitive to direct language pointing out where you are wrong or where you appear to be inserting a certain POV into articles will not improve the encyclopaedia or enable you to make a case against me in the future, which I have no doubt is your long-term aim. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:38, 3 July 2019 (UTC)
