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Requested move 22 August 2017
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: no consensus. There were weak !votes on both sides, and ultimately the discussion came down to the accuracy of the n-grams, where there is no agreement. There's not a consensus either way on this matter, and I don't feel further relisting will clarify the situation. Per WP:RMCI, this results in no consensus and the page staying at its stable title. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 20:07, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
Lingam → Linga – Per WP:COMMONNAME. Most of the references used in the article use the term Linga. See this chart here which shows the usage of the two terms. South Indian Geek (talk) 15:57, 22 August 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. DrStrauss talk 20:11, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
- Support: Clearly the current common name is Linga, also in spoken language too Linga is commonly used, though there's no reference. Thapa 75 (talk) 17:36, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
- Spoken language doesn't matter to Misplaced Pages, we have to look at the written sources, where Linga is more common. South Indian Geek (talk) 18:39, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose - Linga may also be used to euphemistically define human genitals in sanskrit language. Keeping in mind the spiritual aspect of the topic I suggest it be left as is. -Casktopicsay 19:22, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
- What you stated above applies for lingam as well, used to represent Shiva's phallus. Also, the spiritual aspect of the topic is not a reason to not stick with the common name. South Indian Geek (talk) 20:16, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
- Support - लिंग is usually transliterated as Linga. 86.97.129.80 (talk) 08:41, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose I don't believe the chart offered by South Indian Geek is accurate (see below) I have a Bachelors in Comparative Religion with an emphasis on Eastern Traditions, as well as being a 20 year student of neo-tantra and classical tantra. Today this is the first time I have seen lingam spelled as linga. Google search for "Shiva lingam"- 791,000 results. For "shiva linga" 564,000 results. Britannica and Oxford dictionaries list it as lingam. Sethie (talk) 23:29, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
- Oppose लिंग is a schwa deleted prakrit word of the sanskrit lingam. lingam is and ending it with anusvara is proper. Crawford88 (talk) 05:50, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
- What about Ramayana (Ramayanam), Avatar (avataram) then ? South Indian Geek (talk) 07:09, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
- Partial Support - User:South Indian Geek, I don't think ngram should be used to determine the correct name in this case. However, I find a number of reasons to support this proposal.
1. About 10 of the accessible references in the article use the term Linga. We should be sticking to the name used by majority of references.
2. I also do notice an inconsistency in the naming of articles. For example, see Mukhalinga, Jyothirlinga, Linga Purana and related articles that used the term linga in their title. Personally, I am ok with using either title for maintaining consistency within Misplaced Pages. I, being a person from North India, use Linga in my day to day conversations. Surely its better to move the single article lingam to linga instead of moving all the above articles. King Prithviraj II (talk) 13:38, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
- "Lingam" with the -m written as anusvara, is लिंगं . Written in the old (Vedic, etc) way with the nga (ङ) letter instead of the first anusvara, it is लिङ्गं Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:45, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
Is the chart listed above accurate?
I don't think the chart linked above by South Indian Geek is accurate on multiple counts.
Linga and Lingam are common Indian last names. A quick search on google scholar brings up over 50,000 articles with the word linga or lingam in them ] from my quick scan they are almost all medical papers, with people who have the last name of linga or lingam.
If we use ngram as an accurate tool for common word usage, when you set the perimeters to 2017 and set the smoothing to 0 (which is listed as the most accurate setting) lingam comes up as currently more common usage. The settings South Indian Geek's chart uses are for the year 2000 and smoothing set at 3- both of which are, I believe, are default settings.
Lastly, that same tool cannot even find the phrase "shiva linga" while it is able to find many uses of the phrase "shiva lingam" ] Sethie (talk) 23:29, 23 August 2017 (UTC)
- Smoothing is used to see the correct differences in charts on a larger scale, to see which word is used more commonly. 0 smoothing and 3 smoothing is the same, you can't view the minute differences on a large scale at 0. Ngram is used to determine which name is more common in many move discussions. Search Google books for Linga and lingam and the results are mostly shiva linga and shiva lingam with very few false positives. Britannica obviously doesn't have a common name policy, seen with many articles. It lists Linga as an alternate name. Also, please don't list your achievements like 'Bachelors in Comparative Religion with an emphasis on Eastern Traditions' in a move discussion. Google ngram takes only articles with the specific name linga or lingam and doesn't include most names like R J Lingam etc. South Indian Geek (talk) 07:09, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
- @South Indian Geek:
- Whether ngram is helpful in this case or not..... I don't know, I leave that for someone who is more knowledgeable to decide..... I do find it curious that it is not able to find one use of the word "shiva linga."
- regardless,If we set ngram to it's most accurate setting, and set the date to include as far forward as it can lingam wins..... "Set your smoothing level. Smoothing refers to how smooth the graph is at the end. The most accurate representation would be a smoothing level of 0, but that may be difficult to read. The default is set to 3. In most cases, you don't need to adjust this." ]
- I am not aware of a wiki policy that discourages invoking my personal knowledge and experience on a subject in a move discussion. If there is such a policy, please let me know. Sethie (talk) 07:26, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
It seems that both the users are unaware of proper usage of ngram. While ngram doesn't take every text into concern, it does look at names such as Veerasalingam, Linga Mital, etc. Ngram is to be used in discussion only when the term is specific. King Prithviraj II (talk) 15:50, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Article Content assessment
Hi all, I believe that this article's Content Assessment has jumped from level 'Start' to 'C'. If you guys agree then we can change the article's assessment on WikiProject Hinduism, WikiProject Religion and WikiProject India शिव साहिल/Shiv Sahil (talk) 14:55, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
Cleanup and removal of non-RS
This version of this article relied on too many websites/blogs/online prayer offering/tourism sites and other non-RS. I am removing them per our content guidelines. If there are concerns otherwise, let us discuss them. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:54, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Black stone of Kaaba is Lingam
There is many evidence that pre Islamic Arabian worship the Black stone of Kaaba which is Shiva Lingam created durng King Vikramaditya reign who ruled in Arabia in 100BC. Spartan locke (talk) 13:45, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
why sivalinga is facing north deriction ?
Sivalinga is a holy structure of hindu. As we see while worshiping linga we see it is facing north because it is always facing Mt.kailas . 'which is known as a place where siva lived.
Wrong explanation on shivalingam
The explanation or fact that was given is wrong. Shivalingam is not a phallus shape. We need correct information. Shivalingam is a connection of cosmos and earth in scientific. Don't publish any wrong information. Hari 1213 (talk) 07:55, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, people used to argue that before the lingam at Gudimallam was discovered early last century. Johnbod (talk) 13:46, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
Description, history and others about shivalingam is wrong.
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I've had give the information of shivalingam but the Misplaced Pages editors disagree with me. I don't know what wrong with them, it's like discriminating hindu gods. I'm requesting to Misplaced Pages editors to rewrite the information about shivalingam again.
{{Hari 1213 (talk) 11:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)}}
- (edit conflict – I was writing this text in the section above but will add it here as it directly relates to H1213's post here) @Hari1213:, your edits violate Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines in several ways. Essentially the same content has been restored multiple times, with some changes which however do not change the policy violations. I will use the most recent version of your edits to illustrate this.
- The text does not have a neutral tone, but is written from the point of view of a particular religion. Examples include (but are not limited to) "In the shiva lingam the seven chakras of kundalini remain fully active. And so it’s the most powerful thing which makes a person spiritually awaken and brings peace in mind.", "Additionally, there is a mysterious or indescribable power in the linga.", "It indicates our mother nature holds us in her." This is the kind of phrasing that is appropriate for a religious or poetic text, but not for an encyclopedia.
- The text is not adequately sourced, despite the addition of some references. As an example, I checked all three references for the first part of the first paragraph. The Encyclopedia of Hinduism, page 17, does not appear to support any of that information. Introducing Hinduism: A Graphic Guide does not have pages so "page 17" is hard to find, but again I am unable to verify any of the claims in there. (As an aside, that book defines "lingam" as "phallus", which I believe is one of the claims you dispute.) The Lord Shiva does not meet the requirements for a reliable source.
- The text is often difficult or impossible to understand – this is not a policy violation as such, but it is of course not helpful to our readers to have encyclopedia articles that can't be understood. For example, the first sentence read "A Shivalingam or lingam is known as a symbol of lord shiva in form of a lingam in Hinduism that being worshiped for decades" (a lingam is a symbol in the form of a lingam?). There are also multiple language errors that make the text difficult to understand, as well as use of terminology or other vocabulary that's specific to the religion.
- Finally, the edits also removed quite a lot of well-sourced content, including the basic explanations that helps a reader understand what the article is even about.
- If you have suggestions for additions, things that are missing in the article, please suggest them here on the talk page together with the supporting sources. Similarly, if there are claims in the article which you have good reason to think is inappropriate, bring it up here on the talk page. Please make explicit suggestions such as "Change to " with a source (but don't make a suggestion for changing the entire text in one go.) Uninvolved editors would then be able to see whether something should be added or changed, and they could edit the article accordingly. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 11:30, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
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