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Discrimination Start‑class Low‑importance

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Potential neutrality issue

While the subject definitely warrants an article as it's come up in politics in contemporary times, it is controversial and should be framed as such. Adding criticism of the theory, for example, would make the article more neutral. Kirbanzo  18:11, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

A good start would be rewriting the lede so that it's not explicitly racist. -Thucydides411 (talk) 11:00, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I've rewritten the lede to attribute the term. However, the body of the article still presents this concept as if it were a scientific discovery, rather than a contested sociological concept. -Thucydides411 (talk) 11:11, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

This is a New Yorker review of Robin DiAngelo's book White Fragility, which gives a critical view of the concept: . -Thucydides411 (talk) 12:59, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I've added in a criticism section. Sdio7 (talk) 23:45, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Jesse Lile?

Who is Jesse Lile, and why should we care about his criticism? We readers need to know his area of expertise, at least — an explanation as to why his opinion is paricularly important. MeegsC (talk) 13:57, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I've shortened the description of his criticism. -Thucydides411 (talk) 18:17, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

I've added a snippet to identify his professional background. Schazjmd (talk) 18:33, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

False statements in lead

The lead says DiAngelo coined the term in 2011, but its been around at least since 1996, e.g., this paper NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 19:56, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

The paper you link only uses the term in its references to another paper (Roman, L. G. (1993). White is a color! White defensiveness, postmodernism, and anti-racist pedagogy. In C. McCarthy & W Crichlow (Eds.), Race identity and representation in education. New York: Routledge.) that uses the phrase in its title. I don't have access to that 2d paper to see how they're using it. "White defensiveness" has a literal meaning so I'd think it was strange if nobody had ever used it before DiAngelo. But in this article, maybe it would be clearer to say DiAngelo popularized the phrase to mean all the baggage she attached to it, rather than coined. (I haven't read her book; I'm assuming that she equates "white defensiveness" and "white fragility" in it, as that's how the article reads.) Schazjmd (talk) 20:12, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

There are two related terms here: "white defensiveness" (coined in 1993, as far as I can tell) and "white fragility" (coined by Robin DiAngelo in 2011). Both come out of "Whiteness Studies," a sub-field of Critical Race Theory. The two terms should be differentiated more clearly in the lede and throughout the article. -Thucydides411 (talk) 11:25, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for peering behing the paywall. If the terms are "related" this implies they are not synonyms, so its unclear why "White Fragility" is given as an alternative name for the topic of this article? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 12:07, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

The term "white fragility" (as opposed to the book article) used to redirect to White privilege#White fragility. Then this article was created in March 2020 and the redirect changed. When this article was written, Peipsi-Pihkva lumped the two terms together, and DiAngelo was just a minor part of the article. Since then, the focus in the article has gradually shifted to place more emphasis on DiAngelo's views and counters to it. (There is also the related White backlash article.) I think the earlier version of the Definition section did a better job with the overall article concept than the current version that overemphasizes DiAngelo's "white fragility". Schazjmd (talk) 13:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! This isn't really my area but I'd encourage interested eds to try to tune up this collection of articles. It may makes sense to do some merging/splitting/re-arranging, I don't know. FYI, DiAngelo's work was added to theWhite privilege article in March 2015 as a paragraph in a different section. I assume it was given a sub section heading later on, and that's what the redirect pointed at. This doesn't matter, unless eds try to sort things out and I just thought I'd share the diff link to save someone else the trouble of looking. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 14:56, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

I'll have to look more at the literature on "white defensiveness," but Google ngrams indicates that it's a term that came and went in the 1990s. I'm a bit doubtful as to whether it's actually notable enough for its own page. -Thucydides411 (talk) 19:04, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

This is premature and I don't want to get into it now (and in any case I don't know enough to discuss it)..... if this page "white defensiveness" goes away, what happens to DiAngelo's coined term "white fragility" (as opposed to her book by that title)? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 19:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

If this article went away, there's still White privilege#White fragility (the concept). Schazjmd (talk) 19:43, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Good point. I think I need a map NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 21:00, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

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