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Portrait of a young man
The article features a portrait of a young man with the caption saying: "Roman-era portrait of an Egyptian man from the Hawara tombs of the Fayum collection, c. 125 − 150 CE." Actually, the man is, most likely, a Roman, not Egyptian, because he wears a beard. As opposed to Romans, Egyptians wore no beards at that time. Beit Or 15:31, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- The Hawara mummies have actually been tested in the study cited under the Origins section and were found to be of elite Egyptians, not Romans or Greeks. — · t 22:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Both of you are wrong and right. That portait is not simply a 'native' (African) Egyptian, he is a mulatto and native African(Egyptian) and ruling Roman. It appears as if anything pertaining to the ancient Egyptians on this site are clearly dishuised as fact or at least or lead people's minds away from Africa and black. Just look that the pic of the people in the Article. Where is Nasser of Sadat? They are not arabs( find one for me), they are native Egyptians wit a little something else in the mix. This portrait along with others actually prove the blackness of the ancients because the blackness still comes through. Curled hair does not come out of thin air. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.182.185.117 (talk • contribs) 20:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
First Nasser was from Arab origin from Banu Morr in upper Egypt , second Sadat looked black because his mother was a sudanese , and modern egyptians are definitly not a Black African people LeCaire
Nasser doesn't look Black to me in the least. Sadat may be dark skinned, but he isn't Black by any definition of the word. Curly hair is a feature of most North Africans whatever their skin color. As to the collage, most of the people included are more on the dark skinned side of the spectrum (Nawal el Saadawy, and Abdlehalim are typically seen as dark). karkaron
This article should be featured
Post response on User Werdnak
- I agree. However, it needs just a little more work.
Egypt in Africa
I want to ask a question: someone told me that Egypt should not really be considered as a African country because Egyptians do not really consider themselves to be Africans. How would Egyptians respond to this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100%RSA (talk • contribs)
- I am Egyptian. We (the Egyptians) are divided considering the question you asked. Some of us consider that Egypt is an African country more than anything else as we are the founders of the ancient civilization of the Pharaohs. While others consider Egypt to be an Arabic Islamic country because we talk Arabic and 88% of the population is Muslim. I support the first point of view.
- Egyptian versus Arabic Egypt is indeed an endless debate, but this has nothing to do with Egypt being an African country. It is an African country simply because geographically it lies in Africa. Since this is an encylopedia, it classifies people/countries according to well-established facts & not according to points of view.--Wedian 15:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- I am Egyptian, and I don't think there is an argument about Egypt and Africa. It is a geographical fact that doesn't allow for points of view. Most Egyptians, however, feel more kinship to the East Med and west Asia than they do to Sub-Sahara. The exception here is that there is a definitive identification with Nubians, as well as some identification with Ethiopians. Egyptians, in general, don't classify themselves as Black or White. As to the Arab identity thing, I hate the knee jerk we-are-not-Arabs attitude. I prefer a balanced approach where we are Egyptians and Arabs in that order. karkaron
- Yes, Egyptians are geographically African. But no, Egyptians are not Black or White or Arab. It is not a so called "knee jerk attitude", it's the truth simply because we predate the Arabs. To ignore these facts is to ignore our origins and the glaring fact that we are not simply funny-sounding "Arabs". The imprint of our mother culture and common sense say otherwise. The label is not an appropriate one. You don't ever hear the Arabs of Arabia say they're Arab and something else in that order. Why should the Egyptians have to accept something else? We have our own unique identity, it's Egyptian and it's good enough. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hamada2 (talk • contribs) 09:06, 27 December 2006 (UTC).
well , most of the people i know - including myself - doenst look at all like Ancient Egyptian people , so the guy who is telling us that we are the sons of the pharoahs he really doesnt know the very long history of Egypt and the different people who settled in it , about that " Egyptian " identity , i suppose offcourse that he meant the Ancient Egyptian identity and culture , which died actually 2,000 years ago with the end of the Ancient Egyptian Civilisation , the language and culture decides , Egypt is indeed an Arab nation not an African one not only in terms of language and culture , but in some places in terms of genetics due to Arab migrations to Egypt and their mix with the settled people . The richness of modern Egyptian culture , Egyptian history and monuments comes from many sources not only the Ancient Egyptians (who were never the only ethnic group in egypt by the way) but also from the Greeks , Romans , Christian Copts , Arabs & Turks . and Yes , most Egyptians doesnt consider themselves Africans but Arabs. "funny-sounding Arabs" : that is really civilised User:LeCaire
- Your Original research is completely irrelevant to the article. You need to learn how to spell and write English. I was being sarcastic with "Funny sounding Arabs", but of course that completely went over your head. Egypt is a 100% Egyptian country. Everything and everyone that came to this country was absorbed but the Egyptians are here to stay. Nothing will change this simple fact regardless of how much people like Nasser try. Hamada2 04:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
jew as ethnic egyptians?
jews are an ethnic group much as they a religious group. so writing judaism as a religion of ethnic egyptians, or israel as state that populate an egyptian "diaspora" community, is completely absurd.
BTW, i know my english is not the best... Varcety 16:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
- The Egyptian diaspora in Israel is not a reference to Egyptian Jews. It is a community of Egyptians (i.e. Muslim and Coptic) who immigrated there following the signing of the peace treaty or are simply working there . Judaism in the infobox is a reference to the fact that some Egyptians converted to Judaism, and thus it is one of the religions that played role in the history of the Egyptian people. You will notice that the articles on Berbers, Kurds and Persians all mention Judaism as well. — · ☥ 10:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Ruby...
Putting Ruby alongside people like Abdel Halim and Naguib Mahfouz...am I the only one who feels offended here?--195.229.242.88 17:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
- Once again, the picture is meant to portray a diverse group of Egyptians. That you are offended by its inclusion reflects merely an opinion since great many other Egyptians disagreed with the opinion when a they voted Ruby as one of the two most interesting Egyptians in 2005. The collage should show one aspect of contemporary Egyptian pop culture. I have been told that Ruby is no longer as notable, so it might make sense to replace the picture with another, but not simply because it offends conservatives. — · ☥ 18:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
- Uh, conservative who? I'm trying to point out that she's merely a nobody who has overall contributed zero science/culture to Egypt and will mostly likely be forgotten in a few years unlike legends like Abdel Halim. What a joke! Just because they're popular now they're getting more attention in articles, for example compare the article for Nageeb Mahfooz and Amr Diab. Yeah. I rest my case.--195.229.242.88 19:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
- I think Ruby is as Egyptian as anyone else. I also think the collage should have as many females as males. I think less controversial examples include: Soad Hosny, Faten Hamama, Angham, Mona Zaki, etc.. Oh and BTW where's Um Kalthoum?karkaron
- Of course, there could be so many other people in that collage, but lack of space and copyright issues set significant limits. There still seems to be a value judgement placed on who should be in it though. The Roman-period Fayum portrait is of a pretty random man, but it's interesting to include because of the time era, and like you said about Ruby, he's Egyptian. I considered including the picture of the Fellah, but thought I might run into a similar situation. It would be nice to have as many women as men, but perhaps not all singers/actors. Outside of the entertainment industry or feminist activism, who else would you suggest? — · ☥ 05:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
- Well, beyond the arts you'd have to be more random, in which case it gets even harder. I remember a couple of famous athletes, a famous physician, and a very popular ex-minister of environmental protection. But I don't even remember their names, let alone have pictures of them. Sooo ... I guess the collage is good enough now, if I find anything of interest not loaded with copyright questions I will let you know. BTW, I think the Fayoum portrait definitely belongs there.
- The problem here is that we don't have pictures for every important Egyptian. When she is forgotten, we will remove her picture. As for now, she is popular. Also, this is not the hall of fame of Egypt. We don't classify people according to their contributions to Egypt or else all of the pictures would be of Pharaohs who made Egypt the most powerful country in the world. These pictures are just random examples to cover a wide range.