Talk:Middle Ages - Misplaced Pages

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Middle Ages is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

This article appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 12, 2013.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 19, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed
April 17, 2013	Peer review	Reviewed
May 26, 2013	Featured article candidate	Promoted
June 16, 2024	Guild of Copy Editors	Copyedited
November 8, 2024	Featured article review	Demoted
Current status: Former featured article

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Middle Ages Top‑importance

	Middle Ages portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle Ages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Middle Ages on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages
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Visual arts

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Military history: Medieval

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	Medieval warfare task force (c. 500 – c. 1500)

History Top‑importance

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Section sizes

Section size for Middle Ages (39 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	6,010	6,010
Terminology and periodisation	5,083	5,083
Later Roman Empire	8,338	8,338
Early Middle Ages	52	51,947
New societies	6,026	6,026
Byzantine survival	3,901	3,901
Western society	6,116	6,116
Rise of Islam	3,449	3,449
Trade and economy	1,846	1,846
Church and monasticism	4,627	4,627
Carolingian Europe	5,535	5,535
Carolingian Renaissance	2,069	2,069
Breakup of the Carolingian Empire	5,566	5,566
New kingdoms and Byzantine revival	5,594	5,594
Art and architecture	3,814	3,814
Military and technological developments	3,352	3,352
High Middle Ages	50	41,835
Society and economic life	10,745	10,745
Rise of state power	8,037	8,037
Crusades	5,341	5,341
Intellectual life	4,267	4,267
Technology and military	4,137	4,137
Architecture, art, and music	4,901	4,901
Church life	4,357	4,357
Late Middle Ages	50	26,476
War, famine, and plague	3,156	3,156
Society and economy	2,587	2,587
State resurgence	5,624	5,624
Collapse of Byzantium	1,569	1,569
Controversy within the Church	3,467	3,467
Scholars, intellectuals, and exploration	4,221	4,221
Technological and military developments	2,595	2,595
Late medieval art and architecture	3,207	3,207
Modern perceptions	3,421	3,421
Notes	34	34
Citations	34	34
References	21,342	21,342
Further reading	1,406	1,406
External links	1,773	1,773
Total	167,699	167,699

Semi-protected edit request on 27 September 2024

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The word “spelt” should be “spelled.” (First paragraph) 2601:602:D280:B3B0:DD7B:562E:E31D:40A7 (talk) 04:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Not in British English according to the OED, and the aticle is tagged as British English. Norfolkbigfish (talk) 08:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Query

@Norfolkbigfish: I highly appreciate your constant attempts to contribute to our community efforts. However, please try to avoid original research and also try to use the "Preview" button before saving your edits to avoid obviously distructive edits. For instance, could your refer to reliable sources stating that the Middle Ages "saw the rise of agriculture as the primary economic force", or to scholarly works suggesting that Germanic migrations began in the Early Middle Ages? I know that WP can be edited by any editors but editors who do not have a certain level of knowledge about an article's topic can hardly improve it without familiarising themselves with the relevant literature. Sorry, I must revert all your edits because they did not improve the article, and I do not have time to correct all of your misinterpretations. Borsoka (talk) 01:53, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

There were review comments unactioned at Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/Middle Ages/archive1 since the 21st October, so in attempt to move these on I summarized the lead and another section as the comments suggested. No factual information was added. The article says Scholarly consensus characterises the period by the economic predominance of agriculture and the issue with Germanic migrations required a tweak in language to position this as a precursor to Early Middle Ages rather than a constituent part. A reversion was therefore disproportionate. Norfolkbigfish (talk) 11:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Please compare the verified text you quoted from the article what you wrote before commenting. If a short text contains two unverified statements, its total reversion is not dispoportionate. Borsoka (talk) 11:32, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Restoration

I must apologise before the whole community because my edits destroyed an FA and as a consequence it was delisted. The destroyed version must obviously be restored because our readers cannot be forced to read a version representing a lower standard than the restored version. I urge the original nominators to re-nominate their version. I will show my contrition for my distruptive edits by comments during the process. Borsoka (talk) 02:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I added a new main picture because it was chosen through compromise, not through my bludgeoing tactics. Borsoka (talk) 02:40, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm catching up after some travel, and given the lack of responses here, felt it necessary to state I am not pleased with this result. I've watched your edits @Borsoka over the years on this article and am disappointed it is being reverted. The standards for FAs are much higher now than before. I hope to see this important article moved forward again with whatever process makes sense. Biz (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Compromise?

Watching from the sidelines I have seen many passionate editors give their best for the article. Like any worthy knightly quest, their efforts should not be in vain. I have then tried to find ways to take the best from both versions, at least in prose (I see no reason why sources from both could also not be used, giving a varied academic support to the article). I request compromise, because I think both versions of the article have their strengths, one really gives a great picture of western Europe (not suprising given the emphasis of English language scholarship) while the other is more continental in its approach. I am optimistic that we already have great medieval articles, we just need to bring the best of them together.

Here is one example

Black Death "Between circa 950 and 1060, severe droughts struck the Middle East and the Eurasian Steppe experienced anomalous cold. After 1250, the Medieval Warm Period began to transition to the Little Ice Age. These environmental challenges were followed in 1347 by the Black Death, a pandemic that spread throughout Europe during the following three years. The death toll was probably about 35 million people in Europe, about one-third of the population. Towns were especially hard-hit because of their crowded conditions - one town, Lübeck in Germany, lost 90 percent of its population.

All this impact changed economic and social structures. Peasants who survived had to pay less rent to landlords, and town workers demanded higher salaries but were then much more highly taxed. The trauma of the plague led to profound social and religious changes. Communities showed increased piety with the establishment of new charities. The flagellant movement showed that there was widespread fear combined with extreme religious zeal. Because of this, Jewish communities became scapegoats for the disaster and were severely persecuted. The economic aftermath reconstituted relationships between landlords and tenants. Urban economic structures began to shift as cities adapted to their new, reduced populations.

Charlemagne

Christmas Day 800 saw the coronation of Charlemagne as emperor, a watershed in medieval history. The occasion represented both a symbolic revival of the Western Roman Empire and a functional challenge to Byzantine hegemony. An itinerant court, which travelled with the emperor, formed the hub of sophisticated administrative structures. Some 300 counts were responsible for administering local regions, while imperial emissaries, or missi dominici, served as roving inspectors and troubleshooters. Essential records of grants and administrative decisions were preserved by the royal chapel.

The cultural impact of Charlemagne's reign was profound. His court revived many Roman administrative practices, while it spurred the development of the Carolingian Renaissance. Religious practices became more uniform across his domains, while education and literacy received royal patronage. His relationship with Byzantium proved complex, since his imperial coronation presumed a status as equal to that of Constantinople-a source of diplomatic tension, even as cultural exchange between the two empires continued.

Women

Women's roles in medieval society were complex and varied depending on social class and region. Although technically subject to male authority, women's real influence and activities varied extensively throughout medieval Europe. Aristocratic women held positions of great influence chiefly as wives and mothers, while queen mothers were especially important in Francia. Many noblewomen enjoyed quite significant informal political authority, but the nature of that influence proved fragile and rested upon male connections. The abbess also provided other forms of aristocratic female authority in especially monastic contexts.

Working women were involved in a variety of economic pursuits. In addition to their work in managing a household, many working women also contributed to economic production by spinning and brewing. Urban women were permitted to trade, but access to guild trading was commonly through the rights of husbands. All classes of women worked in agricultural labor during harvest season. Their legal status remained formally subordinate to male relatives, though they could inherit land in the absence of male heirs. Regional variations in legal protections and special provisions for widows created additional complexity in women's social position."

All this unsigned by User:Sunriseshore. . Johnbod (talk) 02:34, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

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