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Disambiguation link notification for December 11

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Joseph Bilger, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Clichy.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 19:55, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Democratic Union of Labour (France)

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Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Democratic Union of Labour (France) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, a question that should have been asked at the help or reference desks, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Misplaced Pages:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Chew (talk) 22:55, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

European challenge

Hi, feel free to add your articles to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge. Keep up the good work! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, but I'm not sure I understand what it is? If I join the French 1,000 challenge, what do I do? JASpencer (talk) 16:50, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 18

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Félix Torres Amat, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Canon.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 19:52, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Gaston du Fresne de Beaucourt

Hi, JASpencer, and thanks for creating this article as a translation from French Misplaced Pages. None of the references panned out, so I have tagged them (and made some other improvements) and moved it to Draft:Gaston du Fresne de Beaucourt where you can work on it to add sufficient sourcing to be valid for mainspace. Once it is, please feel free to move it back to mainspace, or if you prefer, submit it to Afc for review. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 20:53, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Nomination of Tendency (party politics) for deletion

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Tendency (party politics) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Geschichte (talk) 06:54, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Gustave Charles Fagniez

Hi there! Thank you for your improvements to the Gustave Charles Fagniez article. Could you please fix the red date format error in reference #1 that you introduced? Thanks, and happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 20:42, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out. It seems that it was fixed between this message and me looking at my Misplaced Pages account, but if I've missed something please let me know. JASpencer (talk) 05:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Looks like Ira Leviton changed |date=Second semester 1930 to |date=1930, which removed the error. If there's a different way you want to revise the reference, feel free to do so. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 06:31, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

You do hard work improving the encyclopaedia.

Yaa114 (talk) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 6

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Charles Mannay, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Sorbonne.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 08:00, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

L'Esprit public: please incubate developing articles in Draft space

Hello, and thank you for your many translations from French Misplaced Pages. Please be sure to comply with English Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines regarding new articles, in particular, the requirement that the topic be WP:Notable, in Misplaced Pages's sense of the wordd, and that the article comply with WP:Verifiability policy. The fact that an article exists in French Misplaced Pages is not sufficient evidence of either notability, or verifiability. Please start your translations in Draft space, which is a protected area where you may develop articles in peace, and nobody will bother you about not having enough references, or unclear notability. Once an article is in mainspace, however, all Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines apply, and articles may be moved or deleted if they are not compliant.

You recently created L'Esprit public as a translation from the French L'Esprit public (revue). Thank you for starting this, but as of revision 1268352315 of 09:41, 9 January 2025, it demonstrated neither notability nor verifiability; clearly, it was not yet ready to be displayed as an article in mainspace, so I moved it to Draft space, in this edit of 10:39 9 January. You then recreated the article in Main space with a copy-paste, effectively starting a brand new page with rev. this revision of 10:57, and started to edit it.

This created a problem, because now we had your original article with a history of a couple dozen edits in Draft space, and another copy you created in main space, with one two revisions in its history. This can get very problematic due to the issue of parallel pages with different histories. To prevent this situation from getting even worse, I swapped the two: restoring your original draft to mainspace again (rev. 1268362398), and moving the brand new, history-less copy-paste article to draft (rev. 1268362381), and also did post-move clean-up on both, undoing all the changes I made for Draft space. So everything is back to the way you had it in the first place, but the current situation is untenable.

You are now back to the original page you wrote, back in main space, with its original history. The problem is, the original problem of questionable notability and insufficient sourcing still remain, and this article belongs in Draft space and not in mainspace until those problems are resolved. If you keep creating new copies of it in mainspace when it gets move to draft, that is an even bigger problem. So I need to ask you this: can you commit to adding sufficient sourcing to L'Esprit public now in mainspace to demonstrate notability and verifiability? Because if not, I plan to move the article back to Draft space again very soon. I would consider a third recreation of the article in main space after that as disruptive.

To avoid these problems in the future, please start all translations of articles like :fr:Nom_de_l'Article in Draft space, as Draft:Article_name. There, you will not be bothered, and will have as much time as you need to develop it. For right now, please add sufficient sourcing to demonstrate notability of L'Esprit public asap. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 11:51, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Being in the French Misplaced Pages, or any other major language Misplaced Pages, on the face of it is a strong prima facie argument that the subject is notable. And that applies particularly if it's about a subject within that language. Of course there may still be the need for a notability tag, but the burden of proof is on the person questioning the notability.

I think there are further reasons why this particular article is notable, but I will address them in that article. JASpencer (talk) 12:08, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

In response to this:

Being in the French Misplaced Pages, or any other major language Misplaced Pages, on the face of it is a strong prima facie argument that the subject is notable.

Absolutely not, and if you continue to use that as your indication of notability, in the absence of notability requirements of English Misplaced Pages, you risk having your editing priviliges at English Misplaced Pages suspended.

In response to:

the burden of proof is on the person questioning the notability

Again, absolutely not. You appear to be operating under a misunderstanding of English Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines. The burden of proof of notability is entirely on you and if you fail to meet this guideline, any editor may challenge you and bring your article to WP:AFD for possible deletion. A much milder, and friendlier step is simply to move the article to Draft space, where you have all the time you need to demonstrate WP:Notability. This is what I attempted to do, but you caused a significant problem by recreating another copy of the article in Main space, lacking the original history. Please do not do that. I urge you to use Draft space for all your translations, unless notability is clear from the first version. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 12:18, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Moving to the draft space creates lots of problems and I'd far prefer the notability tags. Draft space certainly isn't taken as a friendly move, however it's intended.

I'm fine with a challenge to notability, it improves the article. But these are articles that are already judged to be notable on a Misplaced Pages site. I know that some of our sister Misplaced Pages sites have had issues with either bias or lack of editor involvement, but French Misplaced Pages doesn't have a problem with either of those.

Please can you let me know if you take this to an Admin noticeboard or other forum.

JASpencer (talk) 12:36, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

I reject your claim that taking an article to Draft space creates problems; on the contrary: it avoids all sorts of problems, with virtually no down side. If you see problems in Draft space, please enumerate them. Notability tags are available, and I use them sometimes, when it is clear to me that the topic is, in fact, notable, but the article does not demonstrate it. If the article does not appear to be notable, there is no reason in the world not to move it to Draft space. You ought to be happy at that outcome: nobody will bother you about it, as long as it remains in Draft space. But you may get pushback, if you move it to mainspace.

I must emphasize to you that English Misplaced Pages and French Misplaced Pages have different policies and guidelines: what is notable on French Misplaced Pages may not be notable on English Misplaced Pages, and it is absolutely crucial that you understand this point. It is not a question of bias, nor lack of editor involvement; it is a matter of different policies here and at fr-wiki. Please do not rely on what you know about fr-wiki policies, as they simply do not apply here. If you do so, you are likely to get tripped up by that assumption, and I see some signs of that happening already. Please familiarize yourself fully with English Misplaced Pages policies, especially regarding WP:V and WP:N, and forget everything you know about French policy when creating articles at English Misplaced Pages. A judgment by some French editors (sometimes only one French editor!) that some topic is notable at fr-wiki, has absolutely zero weight here at en-wiki.

Bottom line: this is English Misplaced Pages, follow en-wiki P&G. P.S. I have no reason to escalate this to a noticeobard, unless you double or triple down after having been informed about a problem. Everybody makes mistakes, and that's how we all learn. If I had to take it to a noticeboard for some reason, notification is required, so of course, I would. But I have no reason to expect it will come to that, so you're good. Mathglot (talk) 13:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Use sentence case for section headings

All section headings in English Misplaced Pages use sentence case, per MOS:SECTIONS. See for example, this edit of mine, correcting section headings in title case. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 12:02, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Use English for article titles where possible

In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage, as described in article title policy. A descriptive title in another language such as "Journaux confisqués pour collaboration" should become a descriptive title in English, such as, "Newspapers confiscated for collaboration". However, since it is clear that the original article, fr:Journaux confisqués pour collaboration is actually only about French newspapers, and not newspapers worldwide, per WP:PRECISE it should be called "French newspapers confiscated for collaboration". Even French organizations and institutions require English names, if reliable English sources use English to refer to it; so, for example, we have the articles, National Assembly (France) (not, 'Assemblée nationale (France)'), Senate (France) (not, 'Sénat (France)'), Treaty of Verdun (not, 'Traité de Verdun'), and so on. Always use English, if English sources have a way to talk about it. If no English sources write about the topic, use English for descriptive titles, and French where no English sources are available. Mathglot (talk) 12:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Fair point JASpencer (talk) 12:37, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Maurice network

 Courtesy link: Draft:Maurice network

I see you've been doing some articles related to the WW II French Resistance. One network you've mentioned in one of your translations is the Maurice network and neither we, nor French Misplaced Pages, have an article on it (search fr-wiki for réseau Maurice)). If you are interested, it would be great to have an article on this here (then later somewhat can translate it into French). For starters, you can find detailed information about it at the Musée de la Résistance en ligne, and there are several more references listed at the bottom of that page so we don't end up with just one source.

I'm not sure if you have created articles from scratch before; if it's been a while, please see Help:Your first article which covers all the essential points. One additional thing to keep in mind, is a warning about literal translation or even WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE; if you just translate or paraphrase from that page, it may be considered a WP:COPYVIOLATION, and subject to deletion and/or WP:REVDEL. Everything you write using that source should be a summary and neither a direct translation, nor a close paraphrase. That's a very important point.

Here's a trick I use sometimes, to avoid copyvio: I read a whole paragraph of the original French source, then I close the book and just think to myself about what it said; like running through my head what I just read. My memory is nowhere near good enough to remember a whole paragraph, so inevitably I will remember just the gist of it, and the main points. That is *exactly* what we want in an article–not a translation, but a summary with the main points. So, try that, and see if it works for you. If you use Draft space (and please do), then you don't have to worry about getting anything wrong; just write whatever you remember, no matter how spotty, or with blank spaces or forgotten names; write it as is. Later, after you've got your first summary draft done, you can go back to the original, and fill out all those names and places you couldn't quite remember, and fill them in after the fact. I'll just start writing something like, 'Jean Martin de la Something was born in Faubourg-de-something in 1894(or was it 49?) and married and had ?4 children...' you get the point, just write what you remember, and avoid the temptation to go look at the source again; that's 'cheating!' This is kind of a way to trick yourself into not violating copyright, but it works. At least, for me it does. Btw, if you have a photographic memory, this won't work! Hope this helps, Mathglot (talk) 07:26, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I'll have a look at this when I go back to the French Resistance. JASpencer (talk) 08:47, 10 January 2025 (UTC)