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June 2020

Warning icon Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to add defamatory content, as you did at Harsh Mander, you may be blocked from editing. Nothing in that article says that he played a critical role, in fact he's only mentioned once (we don't pay a lot of attention to headlines) Doug Weller talk 12:29, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

"In an affidavit filed in the Supreme Court, the police said the activist's speech in question not only incited violence but was seriously contemptuous, as it made derogatory remarks against the top court before a huge gathering of people.", " Harsh Mander visited the site on December 16 and told protesters to not have faith in the Supreme Court and to fight their battle on the roads to get justice." and " ... सॉलीसीटर जनरल तुषार मेहता ने कोर्ट को बताया कि मंदर ने जामिया में हुए धरना प्रदर्शन में न सिर्फ भाग लिया बल्कि वहां पर विवादित बयान भी दिया था।" ( Solicitor General Tushar Mehta told the court that Mander not only participated in the Jamia Protest but also gave controversial statements.. All the 3 news article mention his role in inciting violence. This must be mentioned at his page. --Aryan ( है?) 05:28, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
@Doug Weller: Sorry, I forgot to ping you. --Aryan ( है?) 06:11, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
The problem, as you've been told already by Tayi Arajakate, is that you are presenting statements made by the Delhi police as statements of fact. Please carefully read WP:DUE and WP:WIKIVOICE carefully before further editing such contentious topics. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:10, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
@Vanamonde93: So the problem is that I am stating the fact without mentioning the source of information. But, not including this statement would be a delibrate attempt to whitewash his image. I think a statement such as " Delhi Police have accused him of ... " would be fine ?  

June 2020

Warning icon Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Misplaced Pages's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis into articles, as you did at Shaheen Bagh Protests, you may be blocked from editing. Tayi Arajakate Talk 12:35, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

@Tayi_Arajakate None of my edits were personal analysis.
  1. "Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Sunday said there has been no discussion on implementing a National Register of Citizens (NRC) in India, even as he clarified that the Citizenship (Amendment) Act (CAA), 2019, would not affect Muslims who have been living in the country for generations."
  2. "The document then mentions incidents of violence around New Friends Colony on December 15 when some current and former JMI students, and people having allegiance to political parties as well as their supports, assembled at JMI to protest the newly enacted Citizenship (Amendment) Act and the National Register of Citizens. They planned to march to Parliament and President House. The mob kept switching roads when prevented from moving and indulged in stone pelting, states the chargesheet."
  3. "The police then mentions that later in the night, on December 16, the mob retreated strategically inside JMI campus and used the premises as a cover and started pelting stones. The mob positioned itself to ambush the riot control unit. The police were able to control the situation by temporarily apprehending 52 people under Section 65 of the Delhi Police Act. A total of 97 public persons, 35 police officials were injured; three police booths were also damaged, stated the document."
  4. "The illegal occupation of the areas for protest and continued presence on streets drew large gatherings, especially during the evening, and caused incalculable inconvenience to commuters and residents, and created extremely tense and polarised atmosphere in the area,” the police stated in the chargesheet."
  5. . Hindu Sena stated that they would remove all "Shaheen Bagh Jihadis" at 11 am on 2 February.Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page). This does not mention Yogi Ji indulging in hate speech.
  6. "Delhi Police's crime branch on Tuesday revealed that Kapil Gujjar, the youth who opened fire at anti-CAA protest site in Shaheen Bagh on February 1, is a member of Aaam Aadmi Party "
  7. This article doesn;t evn use the word " fundamentalist".

If there are any other problems with edits, please let me know. --Aryan ( है?) 06:08, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

@Tayi Arajakate: Sorry, I forgot to ping you. --Aryan ( है?) 06:14, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
The primary issue here seems to be that you're taking statements made by the Delhi Police as statements of fact which is a belligerent party in the civil conflict and disregarding already cited independent sources. The representation of Prime Minister's statement made during an election rally as equivalent to government denial is also original research without any official correspondence on the matter considering the context in which contradictory statements were coming from the Home Ministry with procedures of implementation already taking places in Uttar Pradesh. I'd also suggest taking it up to the talk page of the article if you have issues with specific words used to summarise sources instead of making large scale edits which alter the semantic in contradiction to the one in the sources. Tayi Arajakate Talk 15:24, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
@Tayi Arajakate:The current state of article is ignoring all instances of violence by the Jamia mob. No source mention Yogi Ji giving hate speech.

official written statement by Nityanand Rai is equal to government denial. --Aryan ( है?) 04:52, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

What exactly is this "Jamia mob"? Dogwhistling is completely inappropriate on wikipedia if that was the intention. If you are referring to the incidents at Jamia Militia Islamia then no, the article on the Shaheen Bagh protests do not cover it. A quick search would also show that multiple RS do mention Yogi's hate speech. Nityananda Rai made a verbal statement on the floor of the parliament after being questioned on the election speech, not through any documentation. The statements also contradict that of repeated assertions from other officials on the same floor, which is likely an example of Obfuscation than anything else. One can potentially write the whole episode as a section or even a whole article but not in the form you added without it being OR or without violating WP:NPOV. Tayi Arajakate Talk 06:07, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/police-seeks-contempt-case-against-activist-harsh-mander-for-remarks-on-supreme-court-2190022. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  2. https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/police-identify-incidents-that-led-to-north-east-delhi-riots/article31743199.ece. {{cite news}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  3. (in Hindi) https://www.jagran.com/politics/national-activist-harsh-mandar-wants-to-save-mumbai-attack-convicts-azmal-kasab-jagran-special-20087275.html. {{cite news}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  4. Varma, Gyan (2019-12-22). "No discussion held to introduce NRC: Modi". Livemint. Retrieved 2020-06-25.
  5. Trivedi, Saurabh (2020-06-04). "Police identify incidents that 'led' to north-east Delhi riots". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 2020-06-25.
  6. Udayakumar, Ganesh Radha (30 January 2020). "BJP's Tajinder Bagga warns Shaheen Bagh of surgical strike on Feb 11". India Today. Retrieved 2020-01-30.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  7. Feb 4, Agencies | Updated:; 2020; Ist, 20:11. "Shaheen Bagh shooter Kapil Gujjar is AAP member: Delhi Police | Delhi News - Times of India". The Times of India. Retrieved 2020-06-25. {{cite web}}: |last2= has numeric name (help)CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link) CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)
  8. "Man Opens Fire in Delhi's Shaheen Bagh 2 Days After Jamia Shooting, Shouts 'Only Hindus Will Rule'". The News18. 1 February 2020. Retrieved 1 February 2020.
  9. Ellis-Petersen, Hannah (6 February 2020). "'Feed them bullets not biryani': BJP uses Delhi elections to stoke religious hatred". The Guardian.
  10. Tripathi, Purnima S. (28 February 2020). "BJP's Delhi election campaign:Hate and perish". Frontline. The Hindu.
@Tayi Arajakate: By "Jamia mob" I refer to the stone pelting protesters who have illegally blocked roads and are referred as " sit-in peaceful protest, led by women" in the concerned article. Nityanand Rai issued a witten statement, not a verbal one as you have claimed.. Both your sources say that Yogi ji called then terrorist, but neither explicitly calls it hate speech. Now saying that calling them terrorists would be classified hate speech, would be adding your personal analysis or synthesis ( assuming that the classification is correct ).Speaking of Delhi Police, if their statement is not a RS, then many of the sources on the article are based on the protesters/mob members' statement would have to to removed. Further, the article does not mention Islamist extremism ( as claimed by Tharoor Ji), mishandling of journalists by mob or accusation on Kejriwal for supporting the protest.. The article does not adhere to WP:NPOV in its current state. --Aryan ( है?) 11:13, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. "No decision on NRC, no document needed for NPR: Nityanand Rai".
  2. "No decision yet on pan-India NRC, documents won't be required under NPR: Nityanand Rai in Lok Sabha".
  3. "No decision yet on nationwide NRC, Minister tells Parliament".
  4. "'Why I am a Hindu and why you aren't allowed to be Muslim': Shehla Rashid once again taunts Shashi Tharoor".
  5. "Slogans like 'La Ilaha IlAllah' narrow the scope of anti-CAA protests".
  6. "FIR lodged for manhandling of TV journalists at Shaheen Bagh Read more At: https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/fir-lodged-for-manhandling-of-tv-journalists-at-shaheen-bagh20200124232248/". {{cite news}}: External link in |title= (help)
  7. "Arvind Kejriwal govt feeding biryani to Shaheen Bagh protesters: Yogi Adityanath Read more at: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/arvind-kejriwal-govt-feeding-biryani-to-shaheen-bagh-protesters-yogi-adityanath/articleshow/73889665.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst". {{cite news}}: External link in |title= (help)

"I refer to the stone pelting protesters who have illegally blocked roads", now who is this being attributed to? Yogi Adityanath? Because "sit-in peaceful protest, led by women" is attributed to three articles from The Hindu, Livemint and BBC that are verifiable. On the matter of Yogi himself, extract from the The Guardian article states:

Standing before a political rally in Delhi, Yogi Adityanath, the firebrand Hindu nationalist chief minister of Uttar Pradesh known for preaching hate and violence against India’s Muslims, did not mince his words. The thousands of women who have been gathered for two months in the Delhi suburb of Shaheen Bagh in protest against India’s new citizenship law were “terrorists”, he said...

Extract from the Frontline (magazine) states:

Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath, who the BJP roped in as its star campaigner, was given a long rope to peddle hate (see box). His entire campaign was loaded with innuendos against Muslims and the ongoing protests against the CAA/NRC/NPR. In one of his speeches, he said if these people did not listen to words, they would definitely listen to bullets (“boli se nahi to goli se to samjhenge hi”).

Per the RS, calling them "terrorists" is being classified as hate speech and that is not the only thing. Both the citations can be used individually to attribute hate speech in the election campaign to Yogi Adityanath, so no it is neither synthesis nor is it any personal analysis. It is as unambiguous and specific as it gets, original research refers to material whose conclusion can not be attributed to any single RS.

On the matter of Nityananda Rai, it seems he did provide written answers to the question in parliament but even that still does not address the entire sequence of events and can not be left only as a vague "government denial" without contextualisation. Note that WP:OR also states "It is important that references be cited in context and on topic." On the other hand statements from partisan individuals (in this case politicians; who are not RS) involved in the protests do not have anywhere near the same weight as reports of mainstream news publications (please read WP:FALSEBALANCE) and need not be included. WP:NPOV refers to "representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic". If you have examples of material where publications are attributing something to protesters but is unattributed and given wiki-voice in the article, you are free to bring them forward and please take any and all of your "concerns" to the talk page of the article where they can be addressed with greater input because I'm sorry but I'd rather not waste my time here anymore. Tayi Arajakate Talk 13:21, 27 June 2020 (UTC)