Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 16:21, 10 January 2025

Welcome!

Hello, Graywalls, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

• Introduction and Getting started
• Contributing to Misplaced Pages
• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article
• Simplified Manual of Style

You may also want to complete the Misplaced Pages Adventure, an interactive tour that will help you learn the basics of editing Misplaced Pages. You can visit the Teahouse to ask questions or seek help.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! RFD (talk) 15:05, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you too!

This situation reminds me a lot of something that happened about a year ago. It dragged on for months, with lots of moans and groans from the prolific article creator about how we were all so unkind in deleting his articles when we could have fixed them for him. When he'd irritated enough people, that contributor was eventually banned from creating any new articles. Deb (talk) 19:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Still Hacking Anyways

Can you PLEASE stop this ridicioulous quest against the Dutch Hacker scene? Deleting pages about our hackerspaces and events. Its like a holy war and it is draining us. You're waging war against a whole community. Why? You're literally destroying our cultural heritage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C00:1611:BC00:3DB4:E81:9710:FFB0 (talk) 12:19, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Indeed! I second this motion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flok (talk • contribs) 12:22, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

each and every one of the individual conferences didn't show sufficient notability to have their own article IMO. I'm merging them together, although one user opposed it, so it's up for consensus gathering right now whether the article should remain stand alone or no Graywalls (talk) 20:40, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 2

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Raymond Kaskey, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Portlandia (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 12:37, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

The Ivy Hotel

Thank you for your comments on the Misplaced Pages page “The Ivy Hotel”. I originally created this page on Aug. 1, 2015. My primary reason for creating this page was my interest in adaptive reuse projects, of which I considered this to be an interesting example when I learned about the project. I neither work for, nor have any connection with, the Ivy Hotel.

Concerning the issues that “… the page appears to be an unambiguous copyright infringement.: This page appears to be a direct copy from: https://web.archive.org/web/20150624025437/http://www.theivybaltimore.com/about-the-ivy/history-of-the-ivy/ and https://www.theivybaltimore.com/history/…”

I initially researched the history of the buildings that now comprise the Ivy Hotel. I tried to establish the narrative by using a range of sources, including those derived from the Ivy Hotel website at that time. I did try to extensively footnote with each source, including the Ivy Hotel. When I created and further contributed to this page, I developed multiple versions of various sections, and perhaps my final submission didn’t include a proper rewording of the passages, which are of specific concern.

According to the “View history” there have been contributions made by other Misplaced Pages editors since I initially created the page. These include some important technical additions to the page, such as the addition of a photograph, as well as some other standard technical geographic Misplaced Pages information.

I would certainly be interested in further researching and revising the particular sections of concern, to bring them in line with Misplaced Pages Copyright Policy. I hope that this page may continue to be maintained, and that other interested persons may ultimately make further contributions concerning this important subject relating to Baltimore, Maryland.

Thank you.

Archivist Robert

Archivist Robert (talk) 04:16, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

What connection, if any, do you have with the subject of this article? MER-C 09:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

The Ivy Hotel I learned of this adaptive reuse project in the media when the Ivy Hotel opened in June 2015. I have no other connection with the subject of this article. Archivist Robert (talk) 16:12, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Such an ostensible copy and paste is only one of multiple concerns with the article. It was just the only one that needed to be addressed immediately. You have also made extensive promotional edits at adaptive reuse related lodging industry article Catskill Game Farm, including this edit Special:Diff/925747883. This is the version before before you started working on it. This was after Graywalls (talk) 16:17, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Gosh, that's block-worthy levels of spam. The claim above is not plausible. MER-C 17:26, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: King Hussein Bin Talal Convention Centre Managed by Hilton

Hello Graywalls, and thanks for patrolling new pages! I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of King Hussein Bin Talal Convention Centre Managed by Hilton, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Not unambiguously promotional. You may wish to review the Criteria for Speedy Deletion before tagging further pages. Thank you. creffett (talk) 17:44, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Minor edit

Hi Graywalls. I added an image on the Raratonga page that I marked as minor but as you brought it to my attention it was not a minor edit. I have since reuploaded the image captioned Te Rua Manga (The Needle) lookout but did not mark it as a minor edit this time. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Georgia mann (talk) 02:20, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi Graywalls, I am writing in response to your message that said: "Hi, I'm one of the contributor to the articles." I'm not the director, that is Mary Sherman; I am an unpaid volunteer board member. We didn't use PR firm, it was an author who is now banned from Misplaced Pages. Thank you for your help! Eventually we will figure this out, I hope. Srcohen614 (talk) 23:18, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Graywalls - you are indeed right that one (or more?) of my minor edits likely didn't fit the criteria, my mistake! I made three minor edits that were pretty much adding a full stop and spacing (just publishing what I wrote then tweaking spacing as a separate edit once I know how it looks), then must've ticked the box on autopilot when I added the dose info for the nasal spray. Anyway if I'm right that it was dose info for either the nasal spray or for cesaerian section in the medical use section for heroin so feel free to critically review that section and I won't take it personally if you change any of it (actually this is my general policy, change and nitpick all you want, but tell me if you want to take it all out). Actually I was wondering if adding dose info is beyond the scope of a wiki on a medication? I know the Equianalgesic#Opioid_equivalency_table table has a lot of specific dosing info for opioids, and some specific opioids have dose info in their wikis. Since diamorphine is a fairly big article I felt that I had some info to add that was already present in the existing citations but wasn't quoted in the text, but perhaps adding more info doesn't help an article per se? Lmk on my page or drop by if you want to discuss it further. (BOBBOBLEYBOBSON (talk) 11:42, 3 July 2020 (UTC))

Thank you for your explanation of minor edits. Many of my edits are adding books to bibliographies, and I wouldn't think that they would be subject to dispute. But, since you cite one of my edits that added a a book as not a minor edit, I will no longer check "This is a minor edit" for them. Maurice Magnus — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maurice Magnus (talk • contribs)

Hackaday reverts

You claim on my talk page that I made a "third revert". This is not accurate. First you made a significant cleanup of the page, after that I restored the Hackaday.io part. After that, you removed it again, in my opinion not following WP:DUE correctly. Then I added it only a second time.

In case you're including the revert of the COI template, that has been discussed on the talk page and should not be included.

I'd like to resolve any problems now. What's the exact policy listed in WP:DUE that makes you remove that part? This isn't at all like a "minority viewpoint", it's a significant part in the history of the website. Dwaro (talk) 20:35, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

@Dwaro:, evidence has been presented on your talk page. Graywalls (talk) 21:05, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

AfD for Frances Broaddus-Crutchfield

FYI. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 06:02, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@ThatMontrealIP:, I wonder if there's a more efficient way of dealing with this. It's unfortunate how resource intensive it is to deal with numerous non-notable articles created by one user. Graywalls (talk) 06:05, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Can't think of one!ThatMontrealIP (talk) 06:10, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Blocked versus banned

I see that in this edit you marked AGRMEditor (talk · contribs) as having been banned. I can'f find a record of that - he had a username block, but I find no record of a ban. Am I missing something? If not, you should probably correct the tag that you added. --Nat Gertler (talk) 21:45, 23 June 2020 (UTC) @NatGertler:, that is part of the pre-formed template. There's no different settings for it. Graywalls (talk) 21:49, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

You have received a prestigious award

	The Blondin award of good balance
	You have been presented with the exclusive Blondin Award because you kept your cool so well when a promotional editor flung a lot of crap at you recently. The image represents the amazing Charles Blondin carrying Jimbo Wales safely across the Niagara Falls. Bishonen | tålk. 17:59, 29 June 2020‎ (UTC)

COIN

Hi! I replied over at COIN regarding Dudva's images. Long story short: two of three example image changes I looked at looked like improvements to me. I don't think they are up to anything nefarious. If anything I think they show a photographer's sort of nerdy interest in better image chrominance and luminance levels. It is very complex to analyze and discuss image COI. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 03:03, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Made up words

In your edit of St. Louis Southwestern Railway you've either made up the term "Cotton Belt System" or transferred that over from a bad source. That term never existed. --SSW9389 (talk) 07:19, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

@SSW9389:, that phrase was already in the article before I even touched it. Graywalls (talk) 21:08, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Henderson

Hey Graywalls, I'm out of there. It's the same thing every time this comes up. We have an editor who flagrantly goes aginst the consensus against NOT writing about one's own family, and is enabled by editors who don't properly fact-check him. And whenever I point that out, I'm supposedly the bad guy. I've had enough of being disparaged like that. Vexations (talk) 19:01, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

@Vexations:, that's unfortunate. Have you seen the situation with Mitzi.Humphrey edits? I think burning out opposition is one of strategies with people who do these type of articles. Graywalls (talk) 19:21, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Graywalls, OMG yes. If I had to give advice on how to win at CoI editing it would be this: Keep editing; ignore consensus; argue that you're being victimized; use hard-to find references and make them difficult to verify; omit links and page numbers from citations; point out that finding errors in ones edits is "mean"; call people who point out your CoI "disruptive" and accuse them of not assuming good faith (because GF is infinite, you can never run out, you're always entitled to more); make arguments that require extensive rebuttals, then accuse your opponent of "bludgeoning"; when forced to make edit requests, overwhelm the edit page until you find someone who will not check your sources and do your bidding; exhaust them by adding so may errors that they give up, because it is easier to introduce falsehoods in Misplaced Pages than to identify and fix them. Vexations (talk) 19:44, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Is it time to take the Henderson edits it to ANI? I have been wondering about this. The net effect of their efforts has been to circumvent the COI guideline.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 19:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

ThatMontrealIP, I don't think that would work, nor for me anyway. I think I was the first one who pointed out that he was writing about his mother, and used some fairly harsh terms to describe her activities. For example, I called his mother's depictions of pacific islanders for a "South Pacific Nite" racist. I also pointed out that Henderson is a collector of art made by a Nazi). I'd be unable to participate in an ANI discussion without becoming the fodder for more attacks on my integrity. Someone could conceivably try to get me banned for pointing out that an editor who is a collector of an artist with a NAZI past has a CoI with that subject. Best to stay as far away from ANI as possible. Vexations (talk) 20:35, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

I think another COI/N or NPOV/N discussion would be a good start. The idea of writing his own essays on his own website only including what he wants, (meaning only things that make him look good) then essentially copying and pasting that and changing copyright on the original to CC-SA-BY transfers COIness directly into Misplaced Pages and had everyone in COI/N thread knew about the extensive copying and pasting, the responses may have been different. He's been maintaining civility and are not directly editing so... but in my opinion, those articles that are essential mirrors of Henderson legacy websites should not persist on Misplaced Pages without substantial cleanup even those who turn out to pass WP:GNG. Passing GNG is no excuse for including undue junk like "a boat in which he owned 5/16 ownership was wrecked by someone else and insurance settlement blah blah blah blah blah blah Graywalls (talk) 21:08, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Also he admits to connecting the dots himself that sources don't directly connect. here Talk:George_W._Blunt_(1856)#Daniel_Westervelt_of_Westervelt_&_Co._shipyard. I seem to recall Lydiaship finding something that failed verification in one of his other articles. When a website created in this manner is released CC-BY-SA and copied over, bias and original research error of the person who wrote the page comes right into Misplaced Pages. Graywalls (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Deletion at Killings of Aaron Danielson and Michael Reinoehl

Please refrain from deleting neutrally worded, reliably sourced, relevant material from Misplaced Pages articles, as you did here: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Killings_of_Aaron_Danielson_and_Michael_Reinoehl&oldid=prev&diff=977828599 Thank you for your cooperation! Ghostofnemo (talk) 02:02, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the merge help

Appreciate any help possible at project merge. Merging articles can be fun, but they're a slight bit complicated, so I went ahead and finished the process you started at Compassion & Choices and its talk page for you. If you want, check out User:GenQuest/Merge for a step by step help guide so none of the many steps get missed. Feel free to ask me for clarification on anything, merges included, if needed. Again, Graywalls, thanks and happy editing! Regards, GenQuest 06:24, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

September 2020

why did you blank Sacred Heart Pioneers men's ice hockey instead of AfDing it or PROD? {${\displaystyle \mathbb {JPG} }$} 08:48, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

@Jacob Gotts:, I should've been clearer in edit summary, but it wasn't a plain blank. It was a redirect. As you know, you can't go back and edit the edit summary. I re-directed it to Sacred Heart UniversityGraywalls (talk) 08:57, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Ah, I see. {${\displaystyle \mathbb {JPG} }$} 08:57, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Do you disagree with the redirect? Graywalls (talk) 08:58, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Nah everything seems fine to me :) {${\displaystyle \mathbb {JPG} }$} 09:04, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind welcome

In over 8 years, you are the first Editor to provide any sort of helpful welcome and I thank you for that. Since you are listening, I want to make a comment, the sort that you probably read all the time. I edit Misplaced Pages maybe once or twice a year and not because I want to be an editor. I did the editing on the article because it was in such deathly poor condition. The reason that I only edit the article once or twice a year is that one session of editing seems to cause a storm of nationalism and attract a war-like stink that attracts everyone to the article. So, it took me 8 years to SLOWLY make the article bearable even though it is fraught with non-compliancy. Sometimes it was fun editing because I could add good things to other articles where my additions were welcome and didn't start a "holy war". I don't know how anyone is able to stomach such daily Misplaced Pages Wars... however, I do understand a bit because my only motivation is that EVERY Misplaced Pages-scrapping site in the world will parrot any INCORRECT information contained therein and people all over the world will believe it to be so when it's not. I'm not long for this world, so people knowing the truth is not as important to me as it used to be. They say truth is like poetry... everyone hates it. What is more interesting to me is the geometry of truth and lies. The truth being the Y axis and the lie being the X axis. All truth and lies are able to be charted on a spherical cartesian coordinate system. Anyway, thank you for your kind welcome message. I might decide to let the article go and let the world fight over the truth, lies and compliancy of it all, without me. (Mini4WD (talk) 14:53, 25 September 2020 (UTC))

@Mini4WD:, you can use your personal sandbox rather than the article itself as your own scratch paper. Original research is forbidden, so if there is something you think you think you know is true and relevant, the best thing would be to put it in your sandbox, then you can go find reliable sources backing it up and once you have the source, you can put it in. If you find something in the article that is not properly sourced (for example, does not have sources, is sourced to forum posts, self published websites, remove it, and make a note in the edit summary why you removed it. The WP:BURDEN falls on people adding or adding back to produce sources directly supporting the inserted claim. If you have respected hobby magazines and like that's not available online(likely common for 70s and 80s periodicals) , you're certainly welcome to use that information too and cite the name, issue, and page number. If you believe existing contents are wrong, but it is properly cited, you're welcome to find another reliable source and share what the other source says along side it. This is explained in WP:VNT. Graywalls (talk) 00:49, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning up the MIni 4WD article

Hello, this is Yuuyatails.

I noticed that you had cleaned up the Mini 4WD article. That article was filled with a lot of unreliable sources and false information prior to the clean-up. The reason why it hasn't been clean-up is that the Mini4WD guy had shown some hostile attitude toward other contributors who tries to clean-up the article or tries to talk him out.

I want to say, thank you. Yuuyatails (talk) 06:29, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

@Yuuyatails:, still though, its looking a bit too much like Tamiya fan POV. I don't think we need product releases of specific models. It's a general encyclopedia after all. Contents should be discussed on the article's page.. so edit warring can be avoided between all parties. Graywalls (talk) 08:05, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Pending changes reviewer granted

Hello. Your account has been granted the "pending changes reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.

Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

See also:

• Misplaced Pages:Reviewing pending changes, the guideline on reviewing
• Misplaced Pages:Pending changes, the summary of the use of pending changes
• Misplaced Pages:Protection policy#Pending changes protection, the policy determining which pages can be given pending changes protection by administrators.
  

GeneralNotability (talk) 00:17, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Lake Oswego, Oregon

U.S. articles use WP:USCITIES, where the "notable people" criteria is different. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:56, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Teahouse talkback: you've got messages!

Indymedia

Hi I just noticed your edit summary at Dutch squatting ban, which is a weird coincidence because I also edited several hours ago to add the 2020 events. The summary was as follows debris removal. see WP:RSP about the use of the disreputable source Indymedia. Also removing squat.net self published clutter, as well as n-1.cc stuff.. First off and as previously mentioned, I don't find terms like debris, disreputable, clutter helpful, it just seems to foster a battleground atmosphere. Secondly and more importantly, where is the RSP consensus on Indymedia? Because I am not seeing it and I dn't think there is one. With self-published sources, I would argue that context is everything. I'll take a look at the edit in more detail now. Mujinga (talk) 14:57, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

@Mujinga:, Looking through pages that are connected, linked. I do that. Please see "Independent Media Center (Indymedia, IMC)

The Independent Media Center is an open publishing network. Editors express low confidence in Indymedia's reputation for fact-checking, and consider Indymedia a self-published source." about halfway down WP:RSP. Graywalls (talk) 18:19, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Great thanks for the information, I can better understand your position now. I was going through the RSP archives and didn't see any consensus, so I will take that further. I'll be sure to keep you updated! Mujinga (talk) 10:21, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Anarchism

Hi Graywalls,

I saw your work on articles related to anarchism and wanted to say hello, as I work in the topic area too. If you haven't already, you might want to watch our noticeboard for Misplaced Pages's coverage of anarchism, which is a great place to ask questions, collaborate, discuss style/structure precedent, and stay informed about content related to anarchism. Take a look for yourself!

And if you're looking for other juicy places to edit, consider expanding a stub, adopting a cleanup category, or participating in one of our current formal discussions.

Feel free to say hi on my talk page and let me know if these links were helpful (or at least interesting). Hope to see you around. czar 07:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Ketch

You deleted text ref'd by this. It looks to me like a legit source. Please explain. --Cornellier (talk) 12:27, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

@Cornellier:, The source does look legit, but the way it's written, it wasn't quite clear if it was directly supporting what the wiki article said, which is "Staysails can also be hoisted between the top of the mizzen mast and base of the mainmast to help downwind performance". I put the contested content back in. Please see if you find the source directly supporting what it is saying. Secondly, the ASA article says "Like cutter rigs, ketch advocates also sing praises for its characteristics in heavier winds." This is an opinion statement. I wouldn't say it's a factual statement of "has an advantage". Graywalls (talk) 12:42, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, gave it a bit of a copyedit and added a new link. Not sure if this is encapsulated in WP policy, but I think generally "blogs" have become more acceptable as refs. Once they were considered "self published" diaries, but nowadays there is a blurring of the distinction between a blog article and a magazine article, depending on the authority of the writer. --Cornellier (talk) 13:40, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

@Cornellier:, it can be hard to distinguish. The practical-sailor's that particular article looks like it is alright since it says he's the editor rather than a user submitted contribution. You may find the explanations listed under WP:FORBESCON, as well as WP:BLOG Either way, how do these sources directly arrive to your factual conclusion "that it is less efficient than a sloop when sailing to windward."? I'm seeing "they say", "critics" and opinions that can't be presented as facts. Graywalls (talk) 13:59, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Uh, OK, I don't have time for this right now, so i'll just revert my work. But as far as opinions and facts are concerned you might as well delete everything that isn't ref'd by merriam-webster.com, dictionary.com, and the National Museum of American History since at the end of the day they're all just the writers' opinions. --Cornellier (talk) 14:39, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

RDA and RDB

I share your concern about promotional materials getting into wikipedia, and appreciate the time you take to identify and remove such materials.

I use ceramic tweezers for working on tiny electronic parts. Ceramic tweezers are hard, precise, non-conductive, and don't wear. I have been using ceramic tweezers long before there was any such thing as vaping.

After breaking a few tweezers, I began to look for replacements. Many of the vendors stated that their product was suitable for RDA, RDB, or similar. For example: . I did not know what RDA or RDB might stand for, but I wanted to learn.

I spent several hours searching for the meaning of these acronyms, until I came upon the Construction of electronic cigarettes article in wikipedia, where they were defined. I thought I would save other readers the same frustration, by adding the initialisms to disambiguation pages. Had theses initialisms originally been on disambiguation pages, I would found them immediately.

Despite my personal preference not to use chemicals for recreational purposes, I think wikipedia readers deserved to know what the initialisms mean. I have reviewed the MOS:DAB page, the initialisms I entered seem to meet the all the requirements. Perhaps you have more experience in this area, and you can tell me where else to look. I am always trying to learn more about wikipedia policies.

Thanks for your work to improve wikipedia. Comfr (talk) 22:24, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

My concern is that it's too many for a three letter abbreviations for something so obscure and specific like MOD - microwave oven fan, MSW for mouse scroll wheel and such. That whole E-cig article is a huge mess btw. Graywalls (talk) 22:46, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree. We live in a world of three letter acronyms, especially in the space industry, where everything has an acronym. Fortunately, wikipedia disambiguation pages have helped me navigate through the sea of acronyms. Understandably, disambiguation pages will lose their value if they become clogged seldom-used acronyms.

Fortunately a filter is applied by MOS:DABENTRY, which requires "exactly one navigable (blue) link to efficiently guide readers to the most relevant article for that use of the ambiguous term." The terms RDA and RDB followed that rule, and are defined in the E-cig article. However, neither MOD nor MSW appear in the articles microwave oven or mouse scroll wheel.

Can you think of other objective ways to filter the contents of disambiguation pages? Would you consider updating the MOS page? Comfr (talk) 19:51, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Defined in the ecig article, but who defined it? Do reliable sources use it? I'm only seeing vendor pages. Graywalls (talk) 21:15, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

You bring up a good point. Thanks. At least one of the references is a trade journal that uses both RBA and RDA. I assume they have editorial control. There also are many more references in the article to vendor pages. I would like a reference to NYT or WSJ, but no such thing in this article. I found archived versions of two references, and added them to the article. The more time I spend on this article, the more repulsive vaping seems. But that is only my personal opinion. Comfr (talk) 02:43, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Journals such as and would you actually suggest our disambig lists be populated with every abbreviations we can find in PMID articles like this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902006/, biology, chemistry, or internal transmission parts abbreviation SAE journals can come up with? I just feel that you're talking about such obscure things that it doesn't really merit it. The page on the construction of ecigs definitely needs to have vendor-page based contents substantially trimmed out. Also, after looking at several disambig, the ones I've looked at so far only go as far as the main page of the article, not into sections, but I've only looked at a few. https://www.matec-conferences.org/articles/matecconf/pdf/2018/66/matecconf_icmmpm2018_03025.pdf Here, you'll see the surface material used on clutch plates called "clutch friction material" and abbreviated CFM. Well, I'm not totally convinced creating a disamig for CFM to Clutch#Materials or creating disambig for SM to Manual_transmission#Synchromesh would be appropraite even though I can find such usage https://books.google.com/books?id=hKlfEB8tkcAC&pg=PA738 Graywalls (talk) 19:09, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I responded only to your reasonable concern about who defined the acronym. You have demonstrated that reliable sources use many acronyms that might overwhelm our disambiguation pages. We are still left with no objective criteria for deciding which acronyms are eligible for disambiguation. Comfr (talk) 21:14, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I have found at least 7 trade journals references that define RBA and/or RDA. There are many more, if you include referenced vendor pages. Outside wikipedia, I see literally hundreds of examples, such as the Amazon page. It seems to meet all the requirements of MOS:DABENTRY. Comfr (talk) 19:00, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

A look to a draft

Hi @Graywalls:! Recently I've been working on the draft of a biography and I think it's ready to be moved to the principal article, but it don't seems well to me to do it myself, so I requested someone else to do the job. I saw that you have contributed with some biographies, would you mind to give a look to the draft in which I've been working? Yo can foun it here: Draft:Leo_J._Trese. Thanks in advance! Clementeste 16:28, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Your edit in HGO

Hi Graywalls! You edited the HGO article lead to read "its objectives are educate the public education in the art and science of music,...." Could I ask you to adjust that to, say "to advance public education in the art and science of muisc...", so as to be gramatically correct and to avoid replication of 'education'.? Thanks, --Smerus (talk) 08:35, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Why

Why are railfans unreliable sources?? --100.6.117.196 (talk) 00:37, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Edit Request on Concord Law School

Hi Graywalls. I put together a response to your query on my requested edit on Concord Law School. Would you take a look and revise? The edit to Concord's accreditation status made by user TJRC, which is currently live, is incorrect and misleading. Please review the source material I provide in my reply on the Talk page. Thanks. Ewqwdqemdh (talk) 16:32, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Bottle Bill edit unclear

Hi Graywalls, I just noticed an edit you made in the last few hours is confusing. This change appears to contain a typo: "disbursed $19.08 million in 2018 and $17.05 in $17.05 to distributor members". Would you mind clarifying or correcting? Thanks, —EncMstr (talk) 18:36, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

@EncMstr:, thank you for pointing this out. That version should have never made it into the article. Do you find it clear now? Graywalls (talk) 19:37, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Much better! Thanks! —EncMstr (talk) 20:38, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message

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Fifth Column

Hi, how do you feel about helping tackle the issues with Fifth Column (band)? The entire article is almost completely unsourced and like G. B. Jones, there appears to be COI in connection with User:Intheshadows and their recent IPs. On the COI issue, digging through the histories of all the articles connected with this user, there are IP edits in a similar pattern going back to 2004-2005. I'm also unsure as to whether the other two band members, Caroline Azar and Beverly Breckenridge, meet notability requirements. Possibly the former, but the latter seems doubtful. Mansheimer (talk) 14:37, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to deleting it, although it can be time consuming to do the background research to start the AfD. Graywalls (talk) 23:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC) @Mansheimer: Graywalls (talk) 23:03, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

The band is I assume sufficiently notable for inclusion, though given the wall of unsourced text in the current version, an AfD might be a good idea since it could help get other editors interested in tracking down reliable sources, if any exist, should it survive the process. Either way, the current article is a badly written mess and most of it probably needs to be rewritten anyway due to the COI, which has obviously been a problem going back many years (all the IPs that contributed the most text can be geolocated to Toronto) and no one appears to have bothered bringing up the COI issue until you did. I've done a general search for sources and there are a few articles that pop up (there's a film review of a documentary about the band from The Quietus, for instance ), but I'm not sure any of them meet the standards of WP:RS/WP:V. What do you think? Mansheimer (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Deleting all the railroad material

The diesel shop is reliable as it is souced from GE rosters so stop removing it, as well as Utah Rails no it is not fan cruft it's about trains why shouldn't it be there because the people going to the article are expecting trains and the utah rails site the man who made it worked with the Union Pacific Historical Society so stop removing it also stop deleting all the railfan stuff i see you think that you found a gold mine of fancruft but it is not it is information so stop with the crusade against railfan "fancruft" --108.17.71.32 (talk) 23:52, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Undisclosed pay

I noticed you added {Undisclosed paid} tag for User:Achagerty on the page Ellerbe Becket. Was just wondering how you found out.Eccekevin (talk) 17:45, 29 January 2021 (UTC) @Eccekevin:, per https://en.wikipedia.org/Template:Undisclosed_paid , these templates can be placed when article appears to have been UPE. The edit history of that user is quite indicative of UPE. Graywalls (talk) 21:35, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Don't understand

Hi. I don't understand why you deleted my edit to "List of books about anarchism." I also don't understand Wiki-speak. For reference:

Revision as of 15:03, 3 February 2021 (edit) NorsemanII (talk | contribs) (Reverting edit by User:Graywalls - links to the full text are useful, do not repeat this edit without discussion on talk page. Reverted edit by User:Eliswinterabend, unable to find an appropriate reference regarding your addition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eliswinterabend (talk • contribs) 16:31, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Updates for ADM article

Hello! David here with Archer-Daniels-Midland Company. You've helped me with several requests at Talk:ADM (company) to update basic product information. There are currently two outstanding requests:

• one to add mention of flour milling
• another to add mention of vanilla

For the vanilla request, you'll see I've shared additional sources as you requested. Do you have a moment to take another look and update the article? Thanks again! ADM DavidW (talk) 22:08, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Hello again! Thanks for your recent improvement to the ADM article. I submitted a (seemingly uncontroversial) request here to add mention of flour milling, but the discussion shifted to a larger (and legitimate, I think) one about how products and services should be displayed. I've tried to get User:CorporateM to revisit the discussion twice, but I've seen no replies or updates to the article. I was curious if you had any thoughts; at minimum, I am hoping you might be able to respond to the original flour mill request before that gets lost in the shuffle. I'm trying to balance addressing material gaps and inaccuracies in the article with not being pushy or overstepping. Thanks in advance for any additional help or feedback. 23:11, 4 March 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ADM DavidW (talk • contribs)

A7 on Advanced Technology College Mekelle

Hi Graywalls -- I've declined the above as educational institutions are exempt from A7. Regards, Espresso Addict (talk) 02:37, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

NAC

hi Graywalls. I undid your close of the discussion at COIN. You are very involved it that one. Wait for someone else to close it. Possibly (talk) 16:15, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Acceptable Sources on Hardcore punk page

Are these ones acceptable? If not please feel free to remove them from the article- Hoponpop69 (talk) 22:47, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Hoponpop69:, no they are not. Please read WP:RS, WP:SPS and WP:BLOG. Graywalls (talk) 04:31, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

correction. Those two wordpress blogs definitely are not reliable. I don't know enough about noecho.net to comment on the reliability and the way in which parts or all of links within their site could be used as sources for Misplaced Pages. Graywalls (talk) 05:19, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Tellus

Hello Graywalls, about your possible undisclosed paid tag on the Tellus Audio Cassette Magazine page, I wish to clarify that I was not paid when employed by Mr. Nechvatal between the years 2008-2011 for my Misplaced Pages work on that moribund non-profit project, or on any other Misplaced Pages pages. Though co-founded by Mr. Nechvatal, Tellus was (and remains) a Harvestworks non-profit project. Since 2008, I have chosen to volunteer my time and expertise in the period of the 1980s New York art/music world for free for Misplaced Pages after engaging with that historical period when preparing the Nechvatal archive that was donated for free to The Fales Library Special Collections ]. I left that activity ten years ago. Perhaps this past experience may mean I am a connected contributor concerning the Tellus page. I don't know. If so, I will stay away from it. But I remain an objective and active unpaid volunteer for Misplaced Pages in that period of art/music history. I believe my 13 year extensive editing record here displays that. Would you please remove the tag. Valueyou (talk) 10:15, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

@Valueyou:, the edits by Valueyou isn't the only issue with that article. It has been extensively edited by clearly connected, organizational role named accounts like Tellus archivist and much of these for-consideration (volunteer credit, non-$$ consideration, whatever) advocacy edits remain. Even if your account was the only editor of concern, I'm not convinced simply stating "was not paid" is a justifiable cause to remove the paid editing tag as every suspected paid editor would simply say the magic word to have the template removed. The article needs massive clean up. I can only see the tag going down after that has happened. With the tag in place, someone else will notice it and do the clean up. When that's done, then, someone else can remove it. Graywalls (talk) 10:24, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

@Graywalls: I agree that like many Misplaced Pages pages it had a rocky start. Looking forward to your massive clean up. Valueyou (talk) 10:29, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

@Valueyou:, By someone else, I should emphasize that it means someone who do not have conflict of interest on this subject. It wasn't appropriate for you, someone deeply involved on this subject to untag a COI related template on something you're so deeply involved in. If you were wondering how I came upon this article, it went form Colab, to Joseph Nechvatal, then branched from there. Graywalls (talk) 10:42, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

@Graywalls: Don't take it personally. Thanks for the lecture, but I have been editing here a lot longer than you and I tend to Misplaced Pages:Be bold in my edits. I removed the tag because you refused to do so and to get on the record that aspersions were being cast in my direction by you there. I like to solve problems and create the value of pages at Misplaced Pages, not just police and tag and slice them. If you would have looked at the (perhaps misleadingly named) id page of Tellus_archivist, you would have seen that that person identifies as Continuo, a music blogger, who has no direct connection with Tellus and certainly was not paid for creating the page of a moribund non-profit (thus no conflict of interest on the subject - but rather generous service to both Tellus and Misplaced Pages). You can check that out at where it states that the Tellus Ubuweb archive was edited by Steve McLaughlin in conjuction with Continuo's weblog long after Tellus ceased production. So I ask you politely to remove the tag you placed on the Tellus Audio Cassette Magazine and save me and other Misplaced Pages editors the time and energy to fix what you have done behind you, because I do not agree with your statement that "with the tag in place, someone else will notice it and do the clean up". Please cooperate with me on this and remove that and other tags you casually applied that refer to bad starts of pages long ago settled by the Misplaced Pages community. I have been editing here for around 13 years out of a desire to improve Misplaced Pages in the art and music areas, and I know that we must respect each other. I respect you and I ask the same from you. Thank you. Valueyou (talk) 14:12, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

ADL & COI

Hi Graywalls!

I understand your concerns and I responded on the COI notice board. Feel free to ask me any questions directly.

OceanicFeeling123 (talk) 19:37, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Greywalls: I am rolling back your ADL-related edits until there is a community consensus regarding them. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:07, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

If sand when the community decides that your concerns are justified to the extent that the ADL-related material you removed (without discussion) from numerous article was in appropriately added, you can restore the material, but until then please do not do so. Respect WP:BRD and let the discussion you have started reach a consensus. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:22, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken:, Please read WP:ONUS. When challenged contents are removed, those wishing to add back in must establish consensus. The matter of ADL and their meat puppets are currently being debated at COI/N. Please do not restore until consensus to restore the edits by COI puppets have been established. Graywalls (talk) 01:43, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

The material you removed was sourced. The source has been discussed and has been determined to be reliable. Your removal of that material were BOLD edits, which I have REVERTED. Now the article stays as it was, in the status quo ante, while the issue is being discussion. Please do not restore the material, you will be edit warring if you do. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:48, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Read what WP:ONUS says. It is up to YOU, the one wishing to restore contents to obtain consensus. Graywalls (talk) 01:50, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

I see that you have decided not to follow BRD. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:57, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken:, This matter is currently discussed at COI/N. You systematically reverted every change and re-inserted the contents without establishing contents. In one of the edit summary, you asked for proof ADL is spamming the sources. The discussion at COI/N more than shows that, although perhaps you were unaware of the discussion when you reverted every one of my removal. Please don't jump the gun and re-insert the contents that's being discussed, following WP:ONUS. I pinged you there so you can find the section. I suggest you voice your comments there if you're interested in having a part in that discussion. Graywalls (talk) 02:00, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

The existence of that discussion, which you properly started, is exactly why you should not have retored your edits when you did, since you are pre-empting a consensus discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:08, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Re speedy-delete for The Lab (organization)

Hi! In case you didn't see it, User_talk:Seraphimblade#Move_"The_Lab_(organization)"_to_draft_space? may be of interest - I asked for draft-ification of an article you tagged for speedy deletion, because there are substantial secondary sources available and also at least one person interested in improving the article (me), and it's now back in action as an article. I encourage caution with tagging articles about long-running community non-profit organizations as spam, instead using prod or even AfD. Thank you. Dreamyshade (talk) 22:52, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

@Dreamyshade:, I appreciate sharing your thoughts, but I don't believe the nomination was improper. I agree with the other two commentators on that matter. CSD requests are reviewed by an admin so if something is unduly nominated, it would be declined. There was nothing but fluff in the whole edit history. If the organization passes GNG, there's no prejudice against re-creation. Thank you, Graywalls (talk) 08:52, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Hi Graywalls! Thanks for the message regarding the specificity of a 'minor edit'. I'm new to (editing) Misplaced Pages. I'll read through the docs before making any more changes. Cheers! LantonMills (talk) 00:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Would you have a look at this article

Hello Graywalls, I'm wondering if you would have a look at this article: George Faunce Whitcomb, I cannot figure out how this person is notable. It was created by a known COI editor who writes about his family who is asking the COI tag to be removed. I've been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt however this article seems questionable to me. You have more experience than I on COI cases, so I am hoping you find a moment to review it and look over the comments on the talk page. Thanks in advance. Netherzone (talk) 21:34, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, Oh.. that editor. This article's kind of a tough one, because some of the cited sources are not readily available for inspection from anyone's computer. While you're probably right, it's premature to come to a conclusion. Graywalls (talk) 07:53, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Luke Hughes (furniture designer) page - reverting of changes

Greetings. I recently noticed that you reverted my clean-up of the Luke Hughes (furniture designer) page by reimplementing the template messages. You had commented that it did not meet WP:WTRMT. I've studied the guidelines closely here and can see that it does meet the requirements to remove the template messages. Please can you expand as to why you do not believe that it does? I've tried to assist here by responding to a message on the article's Talk page. LAficionado (talk) 01:06, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Reverts

Hi Graywalls. I noticed your reverts on Collins and Milazzo exhibitions. There were three big ones in the space of a couple days. The thing is, they are a little bit disruptive. Vexations was working on sourcing the list, albeit slowly. Vexations is a long-standing respected editor. You can't cut him some slack? If you could cut the regulars a little more slack, that would be great. I'm working on adding the sources for the shows. I would advise against reverting additions to the Collins and Milazzo exhibitions page, in the near future. Thanks. --- Possibly (talk) 02:51, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

@Possibly:, perhaps it could be draftified? I believe the contents should have waited until sources are added, rather than added back in unsourced, and sources added over a long period. Perhaps there could be a compromise? Things being added without citations and adding citations later is not a practice that should be encouraged. Graywalls (talk) 02:59, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

There's no need to draftify, I am sourcing it as we speak. They are clearly notable and the article contains no unsourced material. You should chill a bit, have some faith in your colleagues.--- Possibly (talk) 03:08, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

removal of unsourced sections

You seem to have trouble finding sources for visual arts related articles, as with Peter Halley. I seem to be able to find sources for pretty much anything you delete. Next time you find something that is not correctly sourced, just send me a ping: "Hey Vexations, I can't find a source for this claim, can you help?" I most likely can. All the best, Vexations (talk) 21:46, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

FYI

See Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(technical)#VisualEditor_duplicating_named_citations. When you edit using the Visual Editor, it is expanding every named-ref call with the full ref definition, causing ref errors. I fixed it on Salvation Mountain, just wanted to make you aware of it. Schazjmd (talk) 23:14, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Bold, revert, discuss

You've edited long enough to know the bold, revert, discuss cycle. Kindly revert your edit-warring reversion and open a discussion in the article's Talk page. ElKevbo (talk) 00:12, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

It has already been started. Your message on my talk was a bit rushed given how soon it was you left it. Graywalls (talk) 00:13, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

User:Ovedc

Bi Graywalls, unfortunately your inquiry request archived here, maybe you will open it again ?

HabiJax

I thought Twinkle would have notified you so sorry this is coming to you a bit late. I closed your RFD nomination of HabiJax because that's not the right venue for blanking and redirecting an existing article. I instead listed the page at articles for deletion. You can find the discussion there. Thanks. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 16:38, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Regarding your edit and comment: "remove unsupportable contents. I checked the source. What I removed was ghost name check and public relations puff." I had no problem finding the original source on Wayback Machine, reinserted it into the cited reference and expanded it. Mgrē@sŏn (Talk) 22:06, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

The link was not working. I am the one who got the archive link and put the link in there... I removed the name drops that was not supportable in the archived version I pulled up. Graywalls (talk) 22:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

The link doesn't work because the MayportMirror.com went out of business several years ago. Mgrē@sŏn (Talk) 00:14, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Which is why I added the archive.org link so I can review it as well as anyone else reviewing it for merger consideration. Check edit history. Graywalls (talk) 00:16, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

@Mgreason:, and I have the same opinion about Habitat for Humanity – New York City too, which is mostly fluffed up with primary source. A lot of it can be trimmed, and merged over. Graywalls (talk) 22:32, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Looking at your talk page, I see that I'm not the only editor you seem to have a problem with. Mgrē@sŏn (Talk) 22:09, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Psychological testing

User:Graywalls. I know the website I referenced. It is the website managed by an expert in industrial/organizational psychology and occupational health psychology. The expert is Paul Spector. His website is very well known to researchers in i/o psychology and OHP. It is an error to claim that the site is not reliable. The site is curated by a leading expert. Iss246 (talk) 01:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

I think you may have mistyped

Here, did you mean to say "related to Spector"?? Sundayclose (talk) 16:00, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Edward Forman edits

Hi, I saw you reverted my recent edits. I was thinking that these were additive and not removing/altering anything in the original article. Could you please help update the article with them if you see fit (I can request the update in the talk page as well)? I feel that the article is incomplete without a small brief about Forman's later life. I want to do it by the book. Please help. Sabih omar 23:33, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

I have added the update as a suggestion in the talk page, FYI. Thanks for the gatekeeping. Sabih omar 23:46, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Email?

Do you have email thru WP? Netherzone (talk) 03:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I don't... why? Graywalls (talk) 04:05, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Found something that I thought was interesting. Not that important Netherzone (talk) 04:21, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Gary Hugh Brown

I'm only about half done reviewing Gary Hugh Brown and am mortified by what I've found when comparing the content to the sources. A whole lot of misrepresentation. Netherzone (talk) 00:30, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol invitation

Hello, Graywalls. The new pages patrol team is currently struggling to keep up with the influx of new articles and redirects needing review. We could use a few extra hands to help. I believe that someone with your activity and experience is very likely to meet the guidelines for granting. Reviewing/patrolling a page doesn't take much time, but it requires a strong understanding of Misplaced Pages’s CSD policy and notability guidelines. Kindly read the tutorial before making your decision, and feel free to post on the project talk page with questions. If patrolling new pages is something you'd be willing to help out with, please consider applying here. Thank you for your consideration. We hope to see you around! Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 19:29, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Hovhannes Tumanyan Museum

My sole purpose in editing Misplaced Pages is to contribute positively to the platform and improve the quality of its content. I do not have any conflict of interests and have not been paid for editing, and I fully understand and respect Misplaced Pages's policy against such practices. I kindly request an open and constructive dialogue to address any concerns or suspicions you may have. If there are specific issues or questions about my edits, I am more than willing to discuss them and provide any necessary information to clarify my intent. Mynameisliza (talk) 21:54, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Pine Cone

Do you think the Carmel Pine Cone meets WP:NCORP? Netherzone (talk) 03:24, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Maybe, maybe not? Many, many newspapers are in the same position though. Boise Weekly, Portland Mercury Portland Tribune just to name a few. I'm not particularly interested in pursuing AfDs on newspapers everywhere. I don't think it will be helpful. Graywalls (talk) 03:33, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Shayan Modarres

If you have time, please examine Shayan Modarres for COI. The history doesn't seem to show anything suspicious, at least not to me, but the overall tone of the article is highly promotional and makes the subject seem more notable than they actually are and doesn't feel like it was written by neutral Misplaced Pages editors. Mansheimer (talk) 03:19, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

@Mansheimer:, I didn't find glaringly obvious signs of COI, but the NBIO/GNG seems unsustained. You may want to AfD it if your own WP:BEFORE check do not find evidence of meeting GNG Graywalls (talk) 06:20, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

COIN - Carey3146

I have just made a formal proposal at the current foot of this topic. I am leaving this message on all this discussion's participants' talk pages to draw attention to the proposal. Your opinion, whatever it may be, is welcome at that proposal 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 07:54, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

You may be correct about the venue. I don't feel strongly about it, thinking that the COI material is present above it. If you feel that it should be at ANI I'm happy if you transfer it there. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 12:19, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

WP:NCORP

Hi, the reason I reverted your edit is because the RFC on schools determined that public schools and colleges need to pass WP:GNG which can include local sources whereas NCORP is a higher standard that rules out local sources and other sources that may be acceptable for WP:GNG. For profit schools do come under NCORP. This was determined when NCORP was revised in a major RFC. Also the RFC on schools stated that local sources were acceptable for public schools in its closure, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 23:02, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

@Atlantic306 I can't make much sense out of it. The two sentences that's currently at WP:NSCHOOL contradicts one another. I started a discussion at N ORG talk. Graywalls (talk) 06:47, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Pure Storage

Hi Graywalls. I started a discussion here related to my COI contributions to the Pure Storage Misplaced Pages page. I was looking for someone with no history with the page to weigh in and saw that you were active on COI issues. Maybe you could take a look and weigh in? ZacBond (talk) 17:24, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Moreland School District redirect

Hia @Graywalls. I see you reverted my CSD for Moreland_School_District redirect. I want to accept and publish to mainspace the draft at Draft:Moreland_School_District. As a page with the same name already exists in the redirect, I requested CSD so I can properly move it. That is the process for when redirects already exist and a draft is ready to be moved, so I am not sure why you thought it wasn't a correct technical reason for deletion. Maybe I have missed something in the process? Let me know! I hope you don't mind I have requested CSD again but if you still feel this isn't right feel free to revert. Qcne (talk) 07:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

@Qcne:, I do mind. I feel you should have waited until discussion rather than re-inserting reverted CSD, which was reverted with an explanation. I think you're well aware of the proposer's edit history. If you reviewed the edit history prior to your CSD, you'll see it was on the same organization before the re-direct. It was re-directed, because it was seen as non-notable. Graywalls (talk) 19:24, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Respectively, your explanation for the CSD reversion gave me no context that you were reverting because of ongoing discussion and the user's paid editing issues. I genuinely thought you had made a mistake in the revision and did not know you were involved in the wider discussion of the draft. As I said on the Talk Page, I reviewed the draft on it's own merit and therefore followed the correct AfC process.

Perhaps leaving a comment for AfC reviewers would be helpful for any future drafts. Please don't think I am being rude by that suggestion. Qcne (talk) 21:40, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

I did leave a comment, right on the page where it says "comments" as did other people. Graywalls (talk) 22:13, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Opioid crisis content

Since you recently cleaned up Opioid epidemic in the United States, there is still a problematic statement there that warrants attention. "The NEJM published its rebuttal to the 1980 letter" would be better characterized as "The NEJM reexamined the 1980 letter". "rebuttal" implies there was a problem with the letter itself, which does not appear to be the case. I see that the BBC article calls it a rebuttal, but that probably isn't MEDRS.

Also, the article about that letter, and especially its editing history, might be worth a look. Unfortunately, a good edit has been repeatedly reverted for reasons that have nothing to do with actual content. 223.205.189.152 (talk) 13:17, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

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GetYourGuide

Hi Graywalls. My name is Clare and I work for GetYourGuide. I put together some proposed edits at User:Claresayasronning/getyourguidedraft I was hoping an impartial editor would review. This is to trim directory information, correct that GetYourGuide is an online marketplace (not a travel agency), and a few other things. @CorporateM: suggested you were "tough but fair" and I should see if you'd be willing to take a look at the edits.Claresayasronning (talk) 18:06, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

@Claresayasronning: The proposed looks better than how it is now even though it could use some tweaking. Can you make an edit request on the article's talk page with the revised version that's ready to be pasted in? Graywalls (talk) 22:11, 1 December 2023 (UTC) Graywalls (talk) 22:11, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks so much for taking a look. I've posted here per your instruction with a copy/paste version of the article with the edits incorporated. The new, revised version of the page would still have a lot of uncited content, a Forbes Contributor, and other problems, but it's a step in the right direction. I don't think any volunteer editor would review all of the edits necessary to get the page into decent shape all-at-once, but hopefully this gets it halfway there. Claresayasronning (talk) 19:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Request for review: Garrett Camp page

I work for Garrett Camp. The current page is pretty bare bones and still has a promotional "Awards and Honors" section among other issues. I shared a proposed expansion a few months ago. Spintendo had some minor feedback, which I addressed. Would you be willing to take a look to see if the draft is ready for article-space? John Pinette (talk) 00:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

FYI

FYI, The edit you reverted appears to be a copy within Misplaced Pages from History of Oregon although it wasn't properly attributed. S Philbrick(Talk) 20:33, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Another walled garden?

What I find odd about the most recent flurry of articles is that it might be yet another WP:WALLEDGARDEN. For a community with a population of just over 3,000 people, there sure are alot of articles about it, and they all link to one another. When I look at a similarly affluent and artsy/touristy small town, say Aspen, Colorado (population 7,000 - twice as large), there seem to much fewer articles about it. I've been monitoring several small-town articles in Colorado as they are prone to promotional editing by chamber of commerce and tourism companies, but I have not encounted the same type of potential walled gardens. Netherzone (talk) 22:32, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, yep. seems like it. I don't count on Henderson coming forward on his own. There will likely be more of them to be discovered in their previously authored articles. It's ridiculous. Graywalls (talk) 21:23, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, check out the last two dozen or so edits I've made. Somehow, a lot of these "walled garden" building pages contain(ed) the name and the URL of the CURRENT tenant. With a history of extremely promotional tone, amplification of flattering contents, omitting unflattering contents and the UPE, I wonder if the placement of present tenant could be a major reason for creation of these articles.

Another editor caught Greg making a false claim of something being National Register of Historic Places. I've wondered why many of his claims about NRHP are referenced to ci.carmel.ca.us. Will need more random checking for sure. Graywalls (talk) 09:50, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Walled garden inside a walled garden?

Apologies in advance for the length of this. I started looking at some of the historical building articles, and there is a cluster of them that are actually all part of the same block in Carmel, linked up to a cluster of builders. (Some are more broadly distributed in Carmel.) I've only just started to analyze this, and need some more eyes, hence pinging Melcous {{u|Graywalls) for feedback.

What also strikes me as odd, is that many of the entries historical significance is referenced to a Calif. Dept of Parks & Recreation database that is sometimes linked in the refs to the National Park Service, or to some other type of spreadsheet like the Sanborn Fire Insurance Maps, this spreadsheet, or toa "Downtown Historic Survey" document. Most have been nominated/submitted for historical recognition but have not received it. These don't seem to be on the Calif. Historic Registry nor the National Registry of Historic Places. I'm not sure if these types of documents are enough to confer WP:NBUILDING.

Some examples of structures: The Tuck Box, Garden Shop Addition, Philip Wilson Building, Lemos Building,[ Blue Bird Tea Room, Mary Dummage Shop, Amelia Gates Building, Adam Fox Building, Bank of Carmel, Bernard Wetzel Building, Carmel Weavers Studio, Doud Building, Draper Leidig Building, Enchanted Oaks Building, Fee Building, Goold Building, and many, many more. Just because something has been nominated and submitted to the record, does not mean that it is designated ON a state or national record . It almost seems like a coffee table book is being gone thru and an article is being made for every page?

Some reoccurring names: Pedro J. Lemos, Ray C. De Yoe, Percy Parkes, James Franklin Devendorf, Frank Hubbard Powers, Hugh W. Comstock (not a comprehensive list for structures or people).

Also, I recently discovered a toolforge tool for mapping the number of articles to a specific place. You have to turn on location services/geolocation in your browser for it to work (I'm on Safari). I'm still getting the hang of it, but what it revealed through a couple of searches was a huge cluster in the same area of Carmel, California, and Carmel-by-the-Sea. I mentioned it before but it is really overwhelming how many articles there are for a place with a population of only about 3,000. Most much larger cities don't have such over-coverage.

I am wondering if many of these can be redirected, merged, or consolidated and which ones might be non-notable per WP:NBUILDING once the sourcing is analyzed, since it seems like some of the sources aren't even about the structure, but about associated persons or nearby structures (which seems to fit walled garden linkage). Also see List of Historic Buildings in Carmel-by-the-Sea for buildings that have simply been submitted to the Downtown Conservation District Historic Property Survey or are on the Parks & Rec database. I haven't started clean up yet, wanted to get some other opinions first. If I am wrong about this, please do let me know. Netherzone (talk) 18:52, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, A lot of these Carmel-by-the-Sea things are definitely parallel to WP:Pokémon test as the historic homes book by Momboisse's with captions of the house is kind of like this Pokemon characters guide. Creating an article on each Pokemon listed there using that book as a reference would not fly. Neither should a lot of these Carmel/Monterey/Pebble Beach stuff. Graywalls (talk) 19:41, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. What seems dubious is that so many of these buildings are not on the National Registry of Historical Places. If they were, I would not be concerned. These were simply nominated or paperwork was submitted for a lesser designation (state, parks & rec, local), that was never granted or registered. Netherzone (talk) 19:52, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Agree this is concerning. You will see from the editor's talk page that I personally do not think that being on the Register in and of itself makes a building notable as WP:NBUILDING also requires significant coverage in third party sources (and are we really saying all 95,000 buildings on the US register + every building in every other country with a similar kind of register is worthy of an article here?) Even more concerning if the register entry itself is not even verified. There are so many of these articles that it feels overwhelming. I have nominated the article I've been looking at as an example - 27–29 Fountain Alley - for deletion in hopes of getting a subject expert or more experienced eyes on this. Melcous (talk) 21:45, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Roy Bahat

I noticed you were one of the biggest contributors to Bloomberg L.P.. I was wondering if you could take a look at Talk:Roy_Bahat. The page is about the head of the Bloomberg venture capital arm. I have a disclosed conflict of interest, as I work for Bloomberg. Angela.Martin2023 (talk) 18:07, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Gore-tex use in making bagpipe bags reversion

Please explain why you reverted https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Gore-Tex&oldid=1192522139. What you wrote isn't helpful. -- Frotz(talk) 23:04, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

@Frotz:, it was sourced to a product manufacturer's page, then a one-man instrument service shop blog. I didn't really look into how prevalent it was, although after verifying the usage through a reliable source, I see it is reasonable, and I replaced the source. It's pretty common on Misplaced Pages for someone to insert usage sourced on vanity sources in order to promote the source. Graywalls (talk) 01:19, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Tesla Cybertruck sources

Hey, good catch on the Engadget revert (thanks), turns out it's actually listed in green at WP:RSP which I should've checked beforehand. If I may ask your feedback, is teslarati.com an independent reliable source for the article? Not sure what to make of that one. As of the current version, it's used for citations 25, 27, and 32. Left guide (talk) 09:49, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Mary L. Hamlin

Hello Graywalls,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Mary L. Hamlin for deletion, because it's a redirect from an article title to a namespace that's not for articles.

If you don't want Mary L. Hamlin to be deleted, you can contest this deletion, but don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks!

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

CoconutOctopus talk 21:14, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Notability standards for restaurants

As I promised in our discussion yesterday, I have significantly expanded Smyth (restaurant) and Goosefoot (Chicago restaurant). Cullen328 (talk) 21:49, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Titmouse, Inc. Page Edits

Hi User:Graywalls. I see the filmography section of the Titmouse, Inc. article has become quite the source of discussion. After reviewing the Misplaced Pages pages you suggested on the talk page about the list rules, it does look like a filmography section isn’t appropriate.

I do have a question for you about other edits I have proposed on the talk page. One of those is adding citations for some content that currently isn’t sourced. Given that my talk page content hasn’t received any response thus far, could you advise me on whether this is still worth pursuing? It seems like the page could use some sections, and I have content regarding some of Titmouse’s projects that I would like to propose that I think would improve and update the page. I would appreciate any feedback or recommendations you may have regarding future updates. I want to follow the appropriate rules and criteria. Thank you and best, JillTMouse (talk) 21:34, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

You posted the wrong obituary

NY Times obituary is for Alexander D. Henderson, Jr. not Alexander D. Henderson (businessman) 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:11, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

LastPass

Hi Graywalls. I have a disclosed conflict of interest with LastPass. Currently, there is a "Security incidents" section on the LastPass page that relies heavily on primary sources, citations that are misrepresented, and other improper cites. I put together a detailed breakdown here. Pursuant to WP:COI, I should not edit it myself. I wanted to see if you have time to review the breakdown and make any changes you feel are warranted as an impartial editor? Let me know. See Talk:LastPass#Poor_citations from November 2023. AmyMarchiando (talk) 18:25, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

OR and Rent regulation

The sources aren't individual datapoints, they're sources that explicitly make the point that there is a consensus of economists. MrOllie (talk) 00:50, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Controversial merge

@Graywalls: You redirected the article American Legion Post No. 512 without discussion. Based on WP:MERGE, "Any editor can perform a merge. No permission or discussion is needed if you think the merge is uncontroversial; just do it (but it might get reverted). Otherwise, the merge should be first proposed and discussed, as detailed below. When performing a merge, one should remember to reconcile talk pages, and to attribute copied content, as required by Misplaced Pages's license. At minimum, this means adding words "Merged content to/from page" to edit summaries. See How to merge below for details." BTW, this is not really a merge because you are not merging anything, it is just a redirect.

I could have "undone" this edit, but decided to speak to you first. I understand from your comments you said "Not independently notable to merit its own article. The building isn't NRHP. Redirect per WP:BRANCH." However, you did not discuss this with me first. According to the guidelines, the article needs "substantially discussed by reliable independent sources that extend beyond the chapter's local area." The article has 10 sources, at least two by secondary sources. This should be enough to establish notability. By redirecting to American Legion you loose any mention of the American Legion Post No. 512. Perhaps you just don't care, but it means a lot to me and I am sure people from the Monterey County, California. Please reconsider not redirecting this article. Greg Henderson (talk) 16:33, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@Greghenderson2006:, Actually, I don't believe there's adequate WP:SIGCOV to merit a stand alone article for the building and local branches/locations of a larger organization don't merit its own article unless the branch itself is specifically notable. I don't think Legion post 512 meets WP:NCORP threshold. Nobody owns an article, so there's really no expectation to ask anyone in particular to make a new edit, unless you're talking about disputed edits. @Lyndaship:, do you have any thoughts on this article? I just happen to notice you edited on this article recently, albeit a minor edit. Graywalls (talk) 18:13, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

My edit was solely as a result of Gnoming removing deleted portals. However, having read the article following your ping I am amazed that any editor felt it deserved it's own article. Lyndaship (talk) 18:20, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@Graywalls: Yes, it is a disputed edit. I don't think you should "delete" by redirect an article like this without going through the formal WP:AFD deletion process. Greg Henderson (talk) 18:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

WP:BRANCH is relevant. One could claim Walmart Cornelius, Oregon is "Notable based on criteria WP:GNG: American Legion Post No. 512 has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject" citing "multiple coverages" per https://www.oregonlive.com/forest-grove/2013/07/wal-marts_impact_in_cornelius.html https://katu.com/news/local/arson-arrest-made-after-small-fire-set-in-cornelius-walmart yet, just it would be ridiculous article to create and probably subject to deletion, just like this Legion Post article you're disputing. Graywalls (talk) 01:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Not sure how you can compare a Walmart Cornelius, Oregon with two news sources any comparison to an actual American Legion Post that is notable for being a historic meeting hall and landmark since 1921, recognized by the city of Carmel as an important resource, and was originally built by World War I veterans. You complexity deleted the article without any kind of Afd nomination. This is a disputed edit that should be reverted. Greg Henderson (talk) 01:51, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Being recognized as "historical" by local village or township is not really a credible assertion of notability. Graywalls (talk) 02:00, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

@Greghenderson2006:, I do not believe this branch of American Legion Posts merits a standalone article, so I am not reinstating it. If you insist, there's nothing preventing you from reverting it and at that point, it will be taken to AfD and consume more community resources over this. Graywalls (talk) 07:22, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

@Greghenderson2006:, so I have addressed your concerns here. Now please do the courtesy of answering my question at Talk:Blue_Bird_Tea_Room. Graywalls (talk) 19:59, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

I will on the Blue Bird Tea Room Talk page. Greg Henderson (talk) 21:26, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Jay Penske

As you're the expert, I thought I'd give you a heads up on possible COI editing patterns at Jay Penske. I toned a little bit down in his early life, but there's a lot of other primary source material to sort through that I will have to get to later. I wanted to get your thoughts before doing any additional edits, because some of this material looks to be pretty difficult to find through normal search engines, stuff that friends and relatives would know about, such as the early life primary sources from his prep school days. Mansheimer (talk) 19:01, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Big Sur CoI allegations

On what basis exactly are you suggesting that Btphelps was conducting UPE? RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 13:22, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

@RadioactiveBoulevardier:, Off wiki evidence strongly shows they have a massive COI with the pages White Stag Leadership Development Program and Béla H. Bánáthy. If you conduct research on the sources and names, it should become evident, but I can not post specifics because of WP:OUTING policy. Please see the WSLDP article talk page and GA related discussions on those two articles. Graywalls (talk) 13:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

WP:NODEADLINE…I’m not really familiar with the processes for handling UPE, but you probably are. If you think there’s a problem, go report them and afterward you could reopen a new thread on that article after those processes have concluded.

FYI, I had closed the thread because it was clearly not going anywhere. Also, I had just been on the receiving end of multiple non-admin closes by an editor who we’ll probably be seeing at RfA before the year is out and I wanted to see what it was like to do one…and the perfect opportunity to help out came up randomly.

In short…don’t just raise content-centered conplaints based on unsubstantiated allegations. Instead, summon Btphelps to the appropriate drama board and have at it until their innocence or guilt is determined.

From the above threads it sounds like you have a history at COIN…so you should know the process better than I do.

RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 13:43, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Joanna Shields, Baroness Shields

Hi Graywalls. I disclosed a conflict of interest here and requested stubbing a page (draft here) that has been plagued by improper COI editing from my predecessors. Another person at my firm already made a similar request and did not get a response. User CorporateM said you were recommended by an editor he trusts, Drmies, and that you seemed to be potentially responsive to such requests. I was hoping you might be willing to take a look. Bakerlr (talk) 19:39, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Speaking of which, North has a COI with the Boy Scouts. Drmies (talk) 01:59, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Drmies:, care to look at user btphelps ? There is very strong evidence of public relations editing which surrounds Béla Bánáthy and the now deleted White Stag Leadership thing and has much to do with scouting related stuff. They've been inserting a lot of refs to whitestag.org and pinetreeweb I submitted the evidence to paid-en-wp email. Graywalls (talk) 02:03, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Haha you didn't have to publicize that. Yes, there's a few. I don't see what's going on in Béla H. Bánáthy, and obviously you can't post it here. Drmies (talk) 02:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Interesting

Interesting, no? , Netherzone (talk) 23:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Now that item is a ref in Messina Orchard, but without any mention of Judi Henderson as the author, with a url that doesn't show all pages newsletter including page 3 where the author's name is visible. Here is the full version (not the shortened one): According to the newsletter masthead, Judi Henderson the does "advocacy". Coincidence? Netherzone (talk) 14:16, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, did some looking around and although suspicion is reasonable, I haven't seen anything conclusive yet. Have you had a chance to check out the Big Sur thing in which I tagged you in? I find definitive PR editing evidence off-wiki. It's the one whose contents Greg has been importing into some articles, like the Plaskett Family personal website junk. Graywalls (talk) 16:17, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I must have missed that. Netherzone (talk) 16:21, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Found some background on the advocacy author, looks like it may be a coincidence. Netherzone (talk) 22:14, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, Look at Béla H. Bánáthy and Ventana Wilderness Alliance. I just had affiliated White Stag Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/White_Stag_Leadership_Development_Program deleted. There's undoubtedly undisclosed paid public relations editing taking place. The reason I believe it is of your interest is that the user btphelps has been adding a whole lot of tourism advocating contents into various Big Sur/Monterey County articles and those are the contents Greg has been plugging into various articles he drafted. Graywalls (talk) 03:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, Is this considered on-wiki or off in regards to out? Netherzone (talk) 18:25, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, Thank you. I discovered their COI through sources outside of Wiki which is why I was not able to discuss any of it. It didn't occur to me to check their user page edit history. Since they voluntarily revealed it on wiki, I suppose it's safe to reveal with diffs. Graywalls (talk) 18:40, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Graywalls, you asked what to do if there's no response to the email--I don't know what to say, sorry. I'm not on that list, and I don't really know where those emails go. I didn't see anything on the Functionaries list. What I can say is that lengthy reports are less likely to get picked up soon than concise reports, but that's little help for now. Give it a few days, and maybe drop Arbcom a line next week. Drmies (talk) 17:24, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring. Thank you. --evrik  03:49, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello

Hello, for free tekno I have been working in the sector for 6 years. The article is old and contains errors.

We cannot always give sources, a source is not always linked to something provable.

When I tell you that you put a store as an active store when it no longer exists, just go to google.

There is not a newspaper that says: This store is closed. On the other hand, I know it.

Then you want sources on labels? Just type Protokseed, teksa omny lab, electrobooking and you won't see it yourself.

It is forbidden to advertise on Misplaced Pages so just put a link to a site, what do you want?

If I tell you that undergroundtekno is the biggest tekno store it's not written everywhere, but when we work in the sector this information is known, they release almost all the artists in our scene.

Electrobooking and no hour sign the biggest artists on the tekno scene, just go to their sites.

We cannot always provide sources so please restore the page.

In the article all the information is correct, some no longer exists and is incorrect.

The goal of Misplaced Pages is to inform and understand our scene.

Currently refusing the changes, you are misinforming people and this is serious because you are misleading people.

We must let specialists like us enrich the page. Bandjo83 (talk) 00:21, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

@Bandjo83:, those are the guidelines. The quality of encyclopedia would greatly suffer if we allow people to put in whatever based on what they know in their mind. You can start your own blog and put down whatever, but on Misplaced Pages, no source, no addition. Not just any source, but reliable sources Graywalls (talk) 01:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

So to give you information as being active structures when they no longer exist is it reliable information?

For you not to put the most important structures, but to put dead structures to activate is normal?

At home I call it a lie. Bandjo83 (talk) 11:45, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

You talk about reliability but even you, you don't know this universe and you think you know better than me.

You are the one who is unreliable because you misinform people.

This is the only reality at the moment.

Please restore the information. Bandjo83 (talk) 11:50, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

ANI

There is an ANI report about you that no one informed you about. Thought you should know. Canterbury Tail talk 15:31, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Next Steps for Stubbing

I wanted to check-in on Talk:Joanna_Shields,_Baroness_Shields#Suggested_Stubbing. I disclosed a COI and proposed a stub to replace the promotional page as a better starting point for future improvements. AfC was suggested, but I don't think I can use AfC that way? Since the page already exists and AfC is for creating new pages. Let me know what you think RE next steps for addressing the page's issues and the best way for me to help. Pinging @Drmies: as well. Bakerlr (talk) 17:59, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

• Bakerlr, I appreciate the disclosure. But Graywalls (I think) and I both know that this is not someone's first or second edit; and one cannot simply start a new account and disclose a COI if one is already a registered editor here. You wish to "respect the site’s independence, autonomy and community policies", and that's great--disclosure is part of that, even if it's to ArbCom, for instance. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 19:12, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Hi @Drmies: I don't understand your message. I do not have any other accounts. If I'm supposed to be doing something differently, let me know. Bakerlr (talk) 22:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
    • Well, this article, and possibly related ones, has of course been plague by undeclared COI editing, for quite a while, so if you think about it you might not be surprised that I had some doubts about the newness of the account. I'll have a look at your proposal. Graywalls, care to join me? Drmies (talk) 22:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

AmericaSpeaks

The entire article probably just needs to go. Drmies (talk) 17:18, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

@Drmies:, I tend to agree and I would personally G11 it, but I just have this feeling whoever reviewing the request would say no. Graywalls (talk) 17:21, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Well it's old. Just leave all the rest of the tripe in, and send it to AfD? I gotta run. Drmies (talk) 17:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

I do not receive payments for my edits, please. I'm here only to contribute to Misplaced Pages; Thank You! And God Bless You!!!. But, what really brought this topic? I thought wiki is free? Why bring up payment? Graywalls. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2RDD (talk • contribs) 12:26, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@2RDD:, it is a disallowed, but an extremely common practice for people to edit Misplaced Pages on their work time as work related activity, or part of their work for their client That is counted as paid editing. Graywalls (talk) 22:54, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Plutomania Records

@Graywalls: I noticed you added the tag COI on Plutomania Records. May I know the main reason you added the tag. Because the subject is not in anyway related to me; for me it's a neutral point of view. Pls know what to do about it. The owner of the label Shallipopi, or the label management itself is not connected to me in anyway. Pls, reconsider. Thank You! 2RDD (talk) 14:11, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Opinion requested

Hi. In September 2023, you nominated Building Owners and Managers Association for deletion in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Building Owners and Managers Association. I agree - that article had accumulated a bunch of fluff and was fairly advertorial when it was deleted.

I've restored the article and performed some significant surgery on it. It's currently in my user space: User:Toddst1/Building Owners and Managers Association.

I'd like to get your opinion on its current state as I have a declared WP:COI (see talk). I'm not in any way paid for my activity - just the opposite - I'm one of thousands of professionals who are members of the organization who pay them dues.

Thanks! Toddst1 (talk) 07:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

@Toddst1:, fails WP:NCORP still. No amount of editing will compensate for lack of notability. WP:AMOUNT. Graywalls (talk) 07:53, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Arc'teryx

Just wondering why you removed the Medium reference from the Arc'teryx page? If this is just based on your own personal editorial discretion can you provide some clarity on why you made this choice? 2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F (talk) 23:08, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F:, Please see WP:MEDIUM Graywalls (talk) 23:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply. I am the author. I agree there is a lot of questionable content on Medium but I do feel the reliability of Medium articles should be assessed on a case by case basis. The article in question is completely transparent about its sources and it is used as a reference by other websites (below). In general it's a piece of independently resourced journalism that I spent a lot of time on, and I do think others would consider me an expert in the subject matter.

https://row.oneblockdown.it/blogs/archive/street-utility-the-great-outdoors-aesthetic-part-one

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHSrk70Dfk6/ 2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F (talk) 23:39, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F:, You cited a product buying website, a BLOG no less. Please reference credible books, or scholarly journals in which it credits Chris Danforth from Berlin as a subject matter expert on the topic of style, culture, sneakers or history. So basically, something from Elsevier, Springer, Routledge and like where scholars refer to Chris Danforth as subject matter expert. I disagree as Chris Danforth meeting reliable source standard for which this source is used for. You can make your case-by-case appeal at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard if you disagree. Graywalls (talk) 00:27, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

I have 10 years of experience writing about streetwear subculture, on top of that I'm a contract copywriter for Arc'teryx.

https://blog.arcteryx.com/gear/climb-heritage-revealed-through-japanese-craft/

Academic publishers like Springer do not cover subculture in their material. You can read every book published by Springer, Routledge and you won't find a single vowel on street culture, graffiti, or streetwear culture. You should realize you are comparing apples to oranges here. 2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F (talk) 02:05, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

@2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F:, Are you the one who added this into the article the first place? It is best for you to create an account, so the name remains consistent. Graywalls (talk) 03:37, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Actually I was not the one who added it in the first place, which also speaks to the article's authority. Someone in the community added it. I just appreciate the traffic it drives to the Medium article and I like that it's in the Wiki. 2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F (talk) 04:10, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

@2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F:, I just appreciate the traffic it drives to the Medium article that's one of the reasons why low quality sources are not allowed, and even if good quality, promotional editing wouldn't be permitted. For example, we have a problem if a magazine was going around specifically adding their own articles into numerous articles for visibility purposes. Anti-Defamation League got caught doing just that some time ago. The Medium article in question is not getting restored into the article absent community consensus saying otherwise. Graywalls (talk) 04:32, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with promotion. The article was added because to Wiki for the same reason it was shared prolifically by people who understand this subculture: it is high quality and authoritative, and it's investigative journalism. I did not add the source myself, but by removing it you're taking it upon yourself to override the community member who deemed it relative to add to the record, when I do not think you intimately understand this subject matter. This is a particular subject that doesn't get written about in scholarly journals. I think you should consider adding it back. 2604:3D08:6F81:8300:10CB:5F5A:287:595F (talk) 05:34, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Edit warring

I noticed you've started your attacks on the Scouting articles again. This is your edit warring notice. --evrik  02:44, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@Evrik:, I see you're re-restoring your preferred version again, without consensus to include when the due weight has been challenged. I see you haven't started a discussion on contents either. Graywalls (talk) 02:46, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

You're edit warring again. A discussion was started here: ]. You chose to not engage in discussing things before unilaterally makin changes. Please stop. --evrik  22:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

@Evrik:, your understanding of WP:ONUS is inverted. I have removed it, because the contents are undue as demonstrated by lack of third party sourcing, if any sourcing at all and the contents presented are like an information guide, which violates WP:NOTAGUIDE. The responsibility to achieve consensus falls on the editor wishing to restore the content, but it seems like you're refusing to acknowledge that. Graywalls (talk) 22:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer?

How can it be that he is a Pending Changes Reviewer when he can't even properly review his own work? And and requesting AfC Reviewer rights shows that he still does not understand the problems with his own work. It's bizarre and seems like trying to game the system...again, but in a new way, finding a loophole. A penny for your thoughts. Netherzone (talk) 19:57, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, I wonder if he's got a "partner" working with him whom he wishes to review. Graywalls (talk) 21:37, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

That crossed my mind also but it may also be to gain credibility and "trust"? Netherzone (talk) 22:05, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Still using blogs as sources too. Netherzone (talk) 01:26, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, Pebble Beach, Carmel-by-the-Sea, Monterey County related biographical and building walled garden continues to grow. You seen his recently created things? Graywalls (talk) 21:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

No, I haven't looked. It's so exhausting and I've got a personal health matter I'm managing right now. Nothing is going to change because IDHT. Have you considered enabling email? Your personal choice of course. Netherzone (talk) 22:06, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Simone Badal-McCreath

It's unfair to label the source you removed on Simone Badal-McCreath as gossip: unanimous consensus is that Retraction Watch is a reliable source (Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 197 - Misplaced Pages). It is only reasonable that discussion of an academic's alleged plagiarism from a reliable source on this matter is included in their article.

Moreover, I really do not appreciate your accusations of edit warring. Blanking by folks with a clear conflict of interest, including the article's subject, clearly constitutes vandalism: reversion is therefore an exemption to edit warring policy. SummerPocket (talk) 00:50, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@Graywalls After further deliberation, I agree it's pretty much unnecessary to include in the article. SummerPocket (talk) 01:36, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Self-driving car: Reversion due to adding NPOV & RS Mercedes and BMW mapping company HERE

Hi Graywalls. I notice that you reverted to previous version due to my addition NPOV & RS Mercedes and BMW mapping company HERE.com. I am fine with that.

However, I still think it is useful for consumers to know what map company that their cars are using in a very highly competing market for for Autonomous Vehicles such as:

HERE Technologies

TomTom N.V.

Google LLC (Waymo)

Apple Inc (Apple Maps)

Baidu, Inc (Apollo)

Nvidia Corporation (NVIDIA DRIVE)

Aptiv PLC...

If a Level 3 Mercedes Drive Pilot and BMW Personal Pilot both make a same mistake at a certain section of the road, consumers could figure that out by knowing that they both using the same High-Definition mapping company and not different ones. That will also inform future consumers to make a choice such as avoiding and picking a car company that uses a particular High-Definition mapping company too.

Tamnguyenrn (talk) 05:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tamnguyenm:, The issue is that it's a vendor page, not an independent, disinterested source, so it is a concern of due weight. Graywalls (talk) 22:10, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

List of Universal Music Group labels

Hi Gray. It seems confusing to me as not all labels owned by UMG, unless would have reliable sources. Anything you can do to help would be kindly appreciated, as well as Template:Universal Music Group, List of Warner Music Group labels, Template:Warner Music Group, List of Sony Music labels etc. 2001:D08:2950:4BF0:17E1:CAC7:E765:6FBE (talk) 14:20, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Your edit to Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users

Thanks for . That was a real eye opener for me. Meters (talk) 17:31, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

All Saints Episcopal Church redirect

@Graywalls: I object to you redirecting the article All Saints Episcopal Church (Carmel-by-the-Sea, California) without going through the WP:DP process. The article was accepted by @SafariScribe:. The subject is notable based on the secondary sources provided in the article. Below are two examples. I feel the article was well written and similiar to other artilces listed here: All Saints Episcopal Church. Please reconsider your redirect and add a tag suggesting for improvements per WP:NCORP. If the problem is not resolved I will request dispute resolution WP:DRR.

• Hale, Sharron Lee (1980). A Tribute to Yesterday: The History of Carmel, Carmel Valley, Big Sur, Point Lobos, Carmelite Monastery, and Los Burros. Santa Cruz, California: Valley Publishers. pp. 63–64. ISBN 9780913548738. Retrieved 2024-07-08.
• Hardy, Maggie (March 30, 1995). "When City Hall Was A Church". Carmel Pine Cone. Carmel-by-the-Sea, California. pp. 17, 24. Retrieved 2022-06-10.

Greg Henderson (talk) 00:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

@Greghenderson2006are you able to start a re-direct for discussion ? Graywalls (talk) 00:31, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

@Graywalls, I agree with @Greghenderson2006, and have boldly reverted your edits. Such redirect may need discussion, let's say, on the talk page. Cheers! Safari Scribe 00:34, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

More gaming

It seems he is now downloading primary documents from unreliable sources like Family Tree, Ancestry, Find-a-grave, for example. and reuploading them to Internet Archive to make them look like they are from a reliable source. Netherzone (talk) 22:26, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/All Saints Episcopal Church (Carmel-by-the-Sea, California)

When I !voted in the AfD I was not aware of all of the  d r a m a  around the page creator and his approach to sourcing. I'm changing my !vote to redirect since I do think that's a valid AtD but I certainly do understand why the community consensus may emerge differently. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:41, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

American Library Association

Regarding Conflict of Interest tag: I suppose you mean me. I'm an over 30 year member of ALA who pays dues. My primary job is at a university teaching library science which includes teaching the history of library development. I am not an employee of ALA. I review ALA projects, statements, policies and news and update the page as I update courses for my teaching. The ALA is important to U.S. library history. Each semester as I update classes I often update ALA information. There is no one at the ALA--that I know of--who edits Misplaced Pages. Over the years I've tried to make it a better page. So many of the association's documents are only on their website which is why I have sometimes cited it and know it is a primary source. I will keep looking to see if secondary sources are available. I wish there were more secondary sources. I really have tried to expunge advertising type material. Thank you for reviewing the page, but I think the conflict of interest shouldn't be there.Kmccook (talk) 21:19, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Margaret Bruton

You made some edits to Margaret Bruton article. However references Bruton1964 and beaux are now not used in the text and are in red. You removed picture of Margaret's gravestone, which was not related to reasons for your edits. Her affiliations are documented in the book "Sisters in art" and such reference would fully source this section. Thanks. Puncinus (talk) 00:51, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

@Puncinus:, post discussions concerning contents to the article's talk page rather than my talk page. Graywalls (talk) 00:57, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Reference and User Services Association

You reverted my edit to create a standalone Reference and User Services Association page, restoring the previous redirect to RUSA awards, on the basis of "Fails WP:NCORP." I respectfully ask you to reconsider your decision and restore the new standalone page. I believe the Reference and User Services Association clearly meets the notability standard for inclusion on Misplaced Pages.

1. There are approximately 125 pages on Misplaced Pages that link to "Reference and User Services Association," indicating a clear demand for information about this organization.

2. The American Library Association (ALA) has eight divisions. Five of them have standalone Misplaced Pages articles. A standalone article for the Reference and User Services Association would take the total to six, and bring its coverage in line with coverage of sister divisions such as the Young Adult Library Services Association, the Public Library Association, and the American Association of School Librarians.

3. I easily located coverage of the organization's activities in reputable secondary sources including the scholarly journal Evidence Based Library and Information Practice (https://journals.library.ualberta.ca/eblip/index.php/EBLIP/article/view/4563), the scholarly journal Information and Learning Sciences (https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/ILS-11-2017-0122/full/html), the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/pr/wp/2018/04/02/the-posts-ron-charles-wins-louis-shores-award-for-excellence-in-reviewing/), American Libraries magazine (https://americanlibrariesmagazine.org/blogs/the-scoop/access-and-care/), The News Courier of Athens, AL (https://www.enewscourier.com/news/local_news/athens-resident-recognized-with-federal-achievement-award/article_1054620e-f38d-11ee-a10f-df3270aa2446.html), and the Library of Congress-published Guide to Federal Librarianship (https://www.loc.gov/flicc/publications/guide/Chapter2.pdf). Bleubsdorf (talk) 18:25, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Exchange at COI noticeboard

You said "We've crossed path in BSA articles. I have to say I've gotta agree to disagree with you on notability threshold." As I recall, we sort of butted heads on material in the article rather than on wp:notability which is about threshold for existence of an article. Maybe we also did it about existence of an article, but in either case it was a different situation. While IMO you went overboard on the deletionist side, IMO you had some good points blended in there about how the articles should evolve. Basically, when it comes to highly enclyclopedic material I'm an inclusionist (and IMO some of the BSA material falls into that category) , and when it's not enclyclopedic I lean towards exclusionist.

When I do NPP (and I've done thousands of articles there) I really don't go by that, I go by trying to learn and follow what the overall norms are. IMO the norms are to follow the guidelines pretty strictly on businesses. North8000 (talk) 23:21, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

@North8000:, And I'm just saying that more than likely, we'll have to agree to disagree on what's "encyclopedic" vs not. WP:IAR should rarely be used, because if it was used all the time, whenever there's a disagreement, all parties would push it towards what they think is an improvement. WP:NCORP, guidelines and policies sort of reflection a broader consensus. As @Drmies: also mentioned in those discussions, much of BSA councils fail to meet NCORP and a group of those passionate about scouting shouldn't be able to retain them just by saying "I like it" Graywalls (talk) 00:49, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

You touched on a lot of different topics there. To comment on just two of them:

• Regarding what's "enclyclopedic" my own definition is: "To what degree it passes WP:Not with flying colors". So beyond just meeting the "floor" of not getting clearly rejected by WP:Not, if wp:not does not even raise a question regarding it, it's strong on being enclyclopedic.
• IMO WP:IAR mainly operates in two different ways, and neither of them is the simple flat out subjective "what they think is an improvement" as the only consideration. One is by it's mere existence without even being invoked, as a counterbalance to wikilawyering type tactics. Misplaced Pages's rules are too vague, overlapping and conflicting to allow selective wikilawyering to rule. The other is invoking it (and what it says) as a mere consideration in conjunction with other valid arguments.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:18, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@North8000:, much of BSA/Scouting council pages that do not pass WP:NCORP is just like the Pokemon situation mentioned in WP:Pokémon test. Graywalls (talk) 14:27, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Big topic there. But I certainly don't agree something with a real world history of many decades, several real world facilities, and 10 or 100's of thousands of real world people is "just like" a fictional game character. North8000 (talk) 15:04, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

@North8000:, and as I said before, agree to disagree. Graywalls (talk) 15:15, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I think so. But just to be clear, if there is a council article which has a lot of history/content of the type described in my 15:04, 20 August 2024 post, has a section on a camp which could probably pass N:Geo, is overall in pretty good shape, except has no sources which clearly pass the N:corp variant of GNG, would you think that it should be deleted? North8000 (talk) 17:20, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Heads up

I noticed that the editor has now had email privileges revoked. This could mean several things, one of which might be trying to edit by proxy. I also noticed that their online "ad" now lists them as a "Quality Assurance Manager (QA Manager) at WP", obviously a non-existent position and also changed geographic location. Probably a good idea to keep a keen eye on NPP and AfC drafts, if you are not already on it, just in case any shenanigans emerge. Courtesy ping @Left guide @Melcous @User:Timtrent - Netherzone (talk) 18:50, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It was proxy by email, or a close facsimile of it.

It seems that the obsession with editing here is hard to shake. I have already suspected we will see block evasion in due course. I will be disappointed if I am correct.

The silly job description, well, we all have silliness within us 🇺🇦 Fiddle Faddle 🇺🇦 19:06, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone and Timtrent:, also "Misplaced Pages, the 💕 Overview" on SignalHire makes you go hmmm. Also some interesting thing on Rocket Reach but I can't really tell if they're spoof. Graywalls (talk) 22:56, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Graywalls, do you mean "Contact top employees " on SH and on RR "Misplaced Pages the 💕 Management Team" listed as an employee? Didn't see those specific links before. My previous suspicions of UPE were 95-to-99% based on the LinkedIn "Quality Assurance Manager at Misplaced Pages" and the admission thereof some time ago, but now I think it's clearly 100% based on this and the behavioral evidence. I agree with Tim that we may be seeing block evasion in the future, or additional attempts at editing by proxy. Netherzone (talk) 14:44, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, If those are not spoof, it might be something that needs to be sent to legal department since those profiles suggest they represent Misplaced Pages. Graywalls (talk) 06:12, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Notability tag use on articles post-AfD

I saw on two instances that you added the notability tag to articles that have survived AfD. That template is used as follows: An editor encounters a page, typically new or not new but neglected, believes that the topic is not notable but isn't sure enough to initiate a deletion process themselves and lets someone else double check and decide whether to start one--this is when and why the tag is placed; if the deletion process is started, specifically AfD, the tag is immediately removed (the afd template supersedes it), and if the outcome is 'keep', as the issue has at that point been discussed and is therefore not a maintenance issue anymore, the tag is not to be put back. Instead, WP:RENOM is followed by editors who believe that the outcome of the AfD was not the right outcome. Sincerely —Alalch E. 13:35, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

@Alalch E.:, thanks but given you left edit summary such as this template can not be used after an AfD which did not result in the article being deleted, I would appreciate if you can link to official guidelines with regard to not placing maintenance template on previous (years ago) AfD'd article that may not meet generally accepted notability standards now. Graywalls (talk) 16:45, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

In such a case, you revert the article to the last known notable instance. If you believe the AFD was decided wrongly, you renominate.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 12:19, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@3family6: why are you going through my talk page and posting to something from three months ago? I am not sure which article you're referencing but that other commentator's point is fair if it resulted in the AfD being decided as KEEP. If it was decided as "no consensus", re-tagging is absolutely warranted; and renominating an article within without waiting something time even if "no consensus" is just not a good idea. You don't want to re-nom something back-to-back. Graywalls (talk) 14:26, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

"why are you going through my talk page and posting to something from three months ago?" - Because old discussions can be revisited. This isn't like a forum with rules against necroposting.

I wasn't referencing a specific article, I was responding to your above reply. If no consensus was reached, you re-nominate.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 15:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@3family6:, it depends. I would also suggest re-visiting the template documentation, because it's been slightly changed recently. Previously, one editor UNILATERALLYwithout any discussion modified the template documentation "it must not be re-tagged" and I believe that version may have been up when this comment thread was started. That's been fixed since then.

It's perfectly appropriate to tag an article for notability and leave it like that for a few month after an AfD closes as "no consensus". While there's no formal waiting period, a few weeks minimum, but prefereably a few months should be given before re-nominating anything to AfD. If an article was closed as "keep" then I tend to agree it shouldn't be tagged without AfD nomination. Graywalls (talk) 15:51, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

That's fair.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 15:57, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Voyageurs Area Council

Although it's true this article had some questionable material that could use some love and attention in the form of better sources, I think your mass deletion of content was too heavy-handed. Some of the material you deleted actually referenced reliable sources and contributed to the notability of the subject, so I will be carefully restoring those items that meet WP:RS and making sure those sources are referenced properly. In general, I encourage you to spend more of your effort on attempting to improve articles (by finding and adding sources) rather than jumping directly to deletion. I know it is easier to destroy than to create, but working together to improve existing parts of wikipedia strengthens our online community. Johnson487682 (talk) 14:40, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Birds of a feather...

The editor who is giving you a hard time on the other Wikimedia projects is indeff'ed on en-WP. Look at the former's block log on en-WP to get a bit of backstory on them. Netherzone (talk) 20:48, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, yep, I noticed. Apparently, Yann at Commons felt I was edit warring/vandalizing though. I don't really understand the culture there. Graywalls (talk) 03:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Could you have a look at this?

I came across this on NPP, Martha Mood and it's an obvious COI (the editor's other creation was family history stuff). I noticed that it is heavily sourced to two self-published books by a Lester Kierstead Henderson of Monterey, Calif. I think the subject might be notable if the museum collections pan out (have not yet verified this). I removed some copyvio from the lead, but have not checked the rest of the article yet. If you have any time could you please have a look at it? Netherzone (talk) 03:47, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, definitely looks like done by her estate. Graywalls (talk) 21:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, by the way, check out the contribution pattern history on Jack Schlossberg, and various Schlossberg bio articles. It's starting to smell like public relations editing. Graywalls (talk) 23:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

You are likely right about this. He's a famous figure, so it might be hard to identify which editor(s) might be UPE. Unfortunately, WikiChecker has been down for weeks so it's hard to determine which editor is the main contributor.

On an unrelated note, check out the Italian poet/entrepreneur Menotti Lerro and all his associated articles such as his "movement" Empathism, his Cultural Pyramid of Cilento, his poetry prize Cilento International Poetry Prize, his plays Il Dottor Faust, Donna Giovanna, l'ingannatrice di Salerno his novels Augusto Orrel: memorie d'orrore e poesia, 2084: Il potere dell'immortalità nelle città del dolore, and many more. Now his "manifesto" colleagues are having articles written about them too. Menotti Lerro is spread all over en-Wiki, mentioned many hundreds of times in numerous articles but there is no article on him in Italian WP. An admin on Italian WP said his article there was deleted "for lack of encyclopedic value" was deleted in 2018.

I have been watching this Lerro walled garden develop for quite some time now. Definitely a promo/PR/COI series of articles, possible UPE. The main contributor denies a COI or UPE. It's a lot to plow thru, so no rush. Just wanted to put it on your radar. Netherzone (talk) 01:41, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, the user whose edits are at question is Maxen Embry. Graywalls (talk) 14:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

COI and other templates removed today on the main Lerro article and on his "manifesto" Empathism. He may-or-may-not be notable since the it-wp deletion, however it's clear this is an orchestrated PR effort on en-wp. Netherzone (talk) 16:02, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

See and regarding the promotion of the "Empathic movement" Empathism of Menotti Lerro. Netherzone (talk) 01:59, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I opened an ANI report. Netherzone (talk) 00:44, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Deleting Country Highpoints

@Graywalls, I have seen you have presumably gone through my edit history to fix articles I have done. I want to confirm this is to maintain Misplaced Pages policy on articles I have made a mistake(s) on, not any sort of bias or spite. Please note that mountains on peakbagger can also get their data from topographic maps and GPS surveys, not just from Eric Gilbertson or other users. On Mont Atilakoutse, for instance, elevation info was from a Differential GPS, specifically a 2002 dGPS survey (EGM2008). Your reversion of various articles due to his blog's presence has also led to factually incorrect information being on articles as Mont Agou is not the highest point in Togo. Have you nominated Felo Barkere for deletion because there is no reliable source? Peakbagger states the info comes from SRTM (Shuttle Radar Topography Mission) data. Thank you. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 00:53, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

While I understand cleaning up uncited and poorly cited content, if you revert articles, you should at least take the effort to keep the info that WP policy supports; otherwise you are degrading the quality of the article. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 01:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@KnowledgeIsPower9281:, I've removed sources based personal blog/website countryhighpoints.com, because that website fails reliable sources standards, rather than who introduced that website. If you were the only one inserting it in the first place, that in itself suggests an issue. When unreliable source insertion is identified, editors commonly remove that source. It would be better if there is a direct link to the said data, or citation from a WP:RS meeting source rather than a blogsite that republishes data from somewhere else to establish relevance. A blogger can read a data table or graph and get the density of water at 300°C at 1,000atm and choose to mention it. However, what's the relevance to have this data in a particular article? If this is data is cited in a reliably published source and put into context, it would put better context in even including that data. Graywalls (talk) 01:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the highest point of a sovereign state like Senegal warrants its own article. Peakbagger was used as a source there which got its elevation data from SRTM. DJ Cane said the following:

"Peakbagger has been used as a source extensively, but things written directly by him don't meet the guideline. If his survey leads to Peakbagger updating their updating the elevation info section, this seems fine to me for minor mountains. Major mountains like Mount Rainier should not have this information presented in the infobox but can have it discussed in the body because in instances like Mount Rainier there remains a large body of official reporting, which should be favored over Peakbagger ".

Felo Barkere would be considered a minor mountain, since it's not like Denali, Rainier, Everest, etc. KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 01:28, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@KnowledgeIsPower9281:, the thing is that there's not much secondary sources talking about it and at this point, the notability is in question. It is mandatory that presented contents are verifiable, but per WP:NOTEVERYTHING, not everything verifiable deserves an article. We go by WP:GNG and subject specific notability guidelines such as WP:NGEO. You may find this useful. Article notability is not something justified through what an editor feels should be included, whether that be the oldest cow, biggest rock, the (insert your superlatives here) est whatever in (insert qualifier here) Graywalls (talk) 01:45, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Have a look...

at this Netherzone (talk) 15:57, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, have you seen COI/N I just started? I was thinking the same thing. Do you wanna go ahead and open up the SPI since you got the ball going already? Graywalls (talk) 15:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I placed this here because I saw what you wrote at COIN. Please, you go ahead with an SPI since you spotted it. I've got to start my day in real life because it's after 12 noon already in my neck of the woods. If I discover anything else will jump in. Netherzone (talk) 16:03, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I was looking for better references for the Pacific Repertory Theater, and found this book. Read what page 243 says. Netherzone (talk) 14:13, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

https://spectrum.ieee.org/wikipedias-shakespeare-problem @Netherzone: Graywalls (talk) 00:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, I thought about it but haven't got around to it. So how confident do you feel they're soc.king or do you thinking it's more likely to be meat instead? Graywalls (talk) 14:46, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I think the IPs are LOUT, maybe there's some meat, but there are also good faith editors interested in theater. There is an old ArbCom case, not relevant to the Carmel/Monterey UPE. This is stale, but interesting: Netherzone (talk) 16:20, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, I'm surprised how pervasive public relations editing is in the subject area of Repertory Theatres. Graywalls (talk) 17:03, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Good thing you noticed and are working on cleaning up the promo/PR. I really wish Misplaced Pages was not used as a free-advertising venue and that people got the fact that it is an encyclopedia. I also think it's time to retire the "encyclopedia anyone can edit" slogan, or at least attach as a disclaimer to it. Netherzone (talk) 19:54, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, apologies for intruding here but I would strongly encourage one or the other of you to open an SPI (I'd do it myself but I don't know how to). The user will surely end up being site blocked in the not too distant future. If they have an alternate sock account that they have used for COI editing, evading a topic ban, distorting consensus at AfD, etc. then it would be for the best that it be determined sooner rather than later so that that can also be site blocked. If the other account isn't a sock account then no harm done. Axad12 (talk) 10:42, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12:, it's hidden in the "how to open" box. hit "show". https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations Graywalls (talk) 14:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, that's interesting. Thank you.

I'm reluctant to do it for fear that I will set it up incorrectly in some way, as I once did when trying to set up my one and only AfD and thus making it borderline inadmissible. On that occasion I received a ticking off for it, but no info on exactly what I had done wrong (despite a request for clarification). Sadly for me, someone whose computer skills are very limited and who was simply doing the best they could, that experience was sufficient for me to no longer attempt to use such processes.

I draw the line at setting up requests at WP:RPPI and WP:CP, which I find just about within my meagre skills. Axad12 (talk) 16:36, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Graywalls, @Axad12, do you know if it is possible to edit from a smart phone while running around while on a cable network? I don't know that much about such technical issues, but was just wondering. Netherzone (talk) 19:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Netherzone:, I don't exactly understand the question.. what are you trying to do?

If you're connected to say Comcast internet connection via WiFi with your smart phone, you would be editing from that network and the phone is essentially a computer on that network. Or did you mean accessing the internet from a physical-jack only network? For the latter, you'd have to setup a WiFi access point fed from that port, then you'd just connect to that by WiFi. If you put it into airplane mode, then enable WiFi, you'd be editing exclusively through WiFi. If you disable WiFi in standard mode, you'd be editing through mobile/towers. Graywalls (talk) 20:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

So if I understand this correctly, it's not really possible for a person to be running around doing errands and such while editing on a smart phone, while connected to a cable network, for example, Comcast(?) Netherzone (talk) 00:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

It's possible. @Netherzone: They're just editing without logging in. If one edits on Misplaced Pages without signing in, it will just show the IP from whatever network you're connected to as your public identity if you don't sign-in. So, it's like texting people from a random phone and saying "Hi, this is so and so" which would be disruptive if it becomes a routine thing. Anyways, all they had to was simply log-in before interacting, or log-in and stay logged in if they have a tendency to forget. Check out WP:LOGOUT. It's annoying, because you couldn't see their contribution history by user when they do this. Graywalls (talk) 01:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

G11 on Marjaree Mason Center

Hi Graywalls -- I see what you mean with this one, but I don't think it's unsalvageable -- could easily be pruned to something more appropriate. Notability is perhaps more of an issue, but it isn't A7; I'd imagine there's lots of press coverage available. Regards, Espresso Addict (talk) 00:39, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Reversion of collapsing at COIN

Not wishing to disagree with you, as I'm sure that we agree on all important COI/COIN related issues and have the greatest of respect for each other...

However, it was the opinion of both myself and GreenLipstickLesbian that the material was very off-topic and better off collapsed (as per their comment on-thread and their subsequently having thanked me for collapsing it). If anything, I thought the material was more off-topic than that in the previous collapse.

I must admit that it had occurred to me (after making the collapse) that GLL's comment re: the user previously having disclosed their identity on-wiki was very important and that I ought to have found a way of retaining that comment outside of the collapse (e.g. by adding a further post at the bottom of the thread including it as a quote). I am inclined to recollapse the material and add something to that effect. Would that resolve your misgivings?

My concern here is that it is very difficult to get admins to take action at COIN. The central issue in that thread is so simple that it could be summarised in a single sentence. However, the current length of the thread (due to assumed good faith contributions by a further off-topic contributor) makes it far less likely that an admin will read all the way to the end in uncollapsed form (or even start reading it at all). That was basically my motivation in collapsing the material, and I'm confident that we both agree on that reasoning. I would be grateful, however, for your thoughts. Axad12 (talk) 06:29, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Prior to that section, I suggested Green C over to COIN overo n Forest Theatre talk, so I wanted to hear all they had to say rather than have it in talk pages all over the place. That's why I uncollapsed just one of the parts. Graywalls (talk) 10:11, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Not sure I follow your logic. You uncollapsed the second collapse, even though GreenC had nothing specific to contribute to the discussion re: Smatprt and only made generalised comments about how serious they considered COI to be as a problem (plus various other comments about text deletion at the articles).

I don't see that they had anything to say that was on-topic. That was unfortunate, because it would have been good if they had contributed to the discussion on Smatprt, but as with 4meter4 and Ssilvers it seemed to me that they were only interested in they co-opting the discussion to an entirely different purpose (i.e. downplaying COI and using that as a premise to oppose deletion of article text).

What am I missing? Axad12 (talk) 10:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I really don't care either way at this point. Graywalls (talk) 10:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

An apology...

Just a note to say that when I collapsed the relevant sections I did so simply to abbreviate the thread and to separate what I (arguably incorrectly) deemed to be on-topic and off-topic discussion. It has subsequently come to my attention that in doing so I inadvertently prevented further discussion from taking place within the collapse.

That had not been my intention - and in fact I'm shocked to find that that was the result of my actions. I therefore want to apologise unreservedly.

(Copying in Netherzone, who had previously asked me to undo the collapsed sections).

Regards, Axad12 (talk) 23:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

No apology necessary, it was clear you were acting with the best of intentions. I just felt like everyone's voices should be heard. Was really hoping that an admin would stop by to at least analyze the case if not act on it. At least the editor finally replied and admitted their COI, however they were first made aware of COI back in 2009, so it is doubtful they didn't understand about financial COIs. Netherzone (talk) 00:07, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Forest Theater, PRT etc

Hello Graywalls. I have yet to start editing any of the connected articles; and it would seem that editing will be somewhat of a task, since previous contributors who have heavily edited the pages have very strong opinions about content and references. They also tend to revert other editors who are trying to better the article in keeping with MOS and WP policy, i.e. reverted to . I am of the mind that there is just too much non-essential information, lists, name-association and puffery content that simply does not belong or contribute to the article at large regardless of any editor's belief that it is "interesting" or "referenced". I worry that when I begin my edits, my attempts will just be met with immediate reverts by the hawks that are waiting in the trees above. Any helpful advice? Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 15:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

@Maineartists:, It might be best to let it cool off for a few weeks. If it's still non-workable, it might call for an AfD, RFC, or Dispute Resolution. Graywalls (talk) 15:06, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

True. I'll come back to it, as you suggest. We'll see how it is accepted then. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 15:20, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Artists Repertory Theatre

Hi Graywalls, I've fixed your tag here for you. If you see a revdel tag without revisions specified, it's better to try to fix the tag yourself than to remove it entirely. Most admins won't be happy about it but will not outright decline a request for not having revisions specified too. Please don't outright remove copyvio or revdel tags unless it's wrong. Thank you, Sennecaster (Chat) 03:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

@Sennecaster:, I actually suggested to whoever tagged it to say exactly where they found the issue and to re-do it with the revs, because I wasn't exactly sure where it was. So I assume they were going to do it soon. Graywalls (talk) 03:15, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

There was intervening edits so the revert notif didn't go through I guess; makes sense though. Sennecaster (Chat) 03:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello

As long as you are following my edits, why not take a look at The Charles Rivers laboratory page? Fortune 500 company that has wiped every negative reference of it off over the years and cites itself almost exclusively. I placed a promo tag on it but mostly left it alone, save for cutting an especially reaching self-sourced claim. Monkeywire (talk) 15:49, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Monkeywire:, go clean it out and fix it :) Graywalls (talk) 15:50, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Only if you'll back me up if someone gives me hell. I've no stomach for edit battles (and mostly edit low-priority pages for that reason!) Monkeywire (talk) 15:55, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For your contributions, especially the cleanup of articles. 3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 22:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Technique (newspaper)

Technique (newspaper) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Hog Farm _Talk 03:46, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Metallum/Metal Archives

I saw in your RS/N post about Symphony of Heaven that you listed Encyclopedia Metallum/Metal Archives as being given as a source. Metal Archives is user-generated and thus never should be used as a source, let alone for BLP statements.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 12:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you have the diff? I don't recall saying anything about SoH at the RS/N and I couldn't find it. Graywalls (talk) 14:17, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

It's listed among unreliable sources here, and this is the relevant discussion. I also recommend in general that you look over the Album sources list as I think it will help you address these issues.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 15:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@3family6:, I was asking you to link me the specific WP:DIFF where I was even talking about those sources as I don't recall it. Graywalls (talk) 16:13, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

OH! Sorry, it's this right here: Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_453#Identifying_reliable_sources_in_Symphony_of_Heaven_and_music_articles_in_general.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 17:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Oh D'oh. Graywalls (talk) 17:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

FYI, I wasn't stalking, I was trying to go back and unravel the COI issue and find out what happened.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 17:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

RE: Changing NBAND

I made a formal proposal to change NBAND, but it's a non-starter, apparently.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 17:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I've opened a discussion on more moderately reworking the guideline, if you'd like to participate.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 14:04, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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New RS/N post

I started an RS/N over four common sources, including The Metal Onslaught. Thought you would like to take a look. Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Are any or all of these metal-oriented music journalism sites reliable? No Clean Singing, Teeth of the Divine, Metal Underground, The Metal Onslaught?.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 01:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Breyers

I took a crack at trying to clean up some of the company-speak. There is likely still some promo based on the ice cream flavor information but think I am as far as my mind will allow me at the moment. CNMall41 (talk) 00:02, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution noticeboard discussion

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution.

Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

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A request...

Hi Graywalls,

I wonder if you might be able to assist me with something (either directly or by providing advice).

I was recently notified of the following article, Alexander Tuschinski, which is written pretty much entirely by the subject's own account and by a separate account dedicated to promoting him and his works. Further investigation revealed that the subject's account had been engaged in a rather exhaustive self-promotional campaign, which also involved setting up articles for various of his films, for various obscure bodies who gave him awards and for other family members based on his own research (e.g. here , here and here ).

Earlier promotional activity in relation to this individual can be seen here at COIN, where no fewer than 20 different articles were noted to contain promotional material placed there by an SPA who was surely associated with the subject in some way.

Clearly there has been a minor industry here purely dedicated to promotion of Tuschinski and his work. I've removed some unsourced/badly sourced/promotional material, nominated a couple of PRODs and contributed to an AfD (as well as requesting that the user refrain from editing the articles directly). Some idea of the current issues can be gained from the thread at my talk page, here , where the user seems unable to accept the requirements of WP:COI.

Any help or advice here would be appreciated. Also copying in user:Netherzone in case the matter is of interest. Axad12 (talk) 07:45, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Problematic promotional editing. Axad, you can take this to ANI (or COIN, but as noted previously, COIN has no teeth.) Sorry I can't help out, I've got my hands full with RL matters. Best to you, Netherzone (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks to both of you for recent help on this article.

I've attempted to get rid of some of the worst of the various Tuschinski-related articles via speedy deletion and PRODs. Having had some success with speedy deletion nominations I decided to nominate the entire Alexander Tuschinski article for speedy deletion earlier today.

That attempt failed, but I now have an admin interested in the situation (as you can see from this thread , starting 4 posts down).

So, hopefully there may be some positive movement in the near future.

Regards, Axad12 (talk) 12:27, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12, the lead in the AT article states, "His documentary Caligari in the Desert was a submission to the 91st Academy Awards." which I'm guessing is the lead's explanation of why he's "notable". Do you know if a submission for an award is the same as being nominated? He did not win the award. Tens of thousands of artists of various disciplines submit their work for awards, but that does not make them notable. For example, if a woman artist was asked to submit their work for an Anonymous Was A Woman award, but did not get it, that would not count towards notability; or if they took it upon themself to submit their work to the Joan Mitchell Foundation and did not get the award, that would not count towards notability. It seems that AT has been active in his career like any other serious artist, but that is just doing his job, however it does not seem like the awards he has won are notable. There is a boatload of filler, fluff and puffery in the article, and it should probably be pruned back to a stub or short article to see what's actually there - and in the process removing all the COI-content added by the subject themself and/or any likely UPE. It seems like the article is ref-bombed with PR/press release type material or primary sources. Unfortunately, with this quantity of refbombing, it makes doing a source analysis chart really challenging and extremely time consuming. I think the Filmography section charts should go, that's just IMDb cruft. A script I use, Novum Linguae's DetectPromo, finds: Promotional words: 100%, expert, influential, inspired by, numerous, premiere but I don't have the time right now to check if these are in quotes or in the body of the text. Overall the article reads like self-promotion. Netherzone (talk) 13:15, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you entirely. I have asked about "submission" of films at WP:FILM, here .

I may also ask there about the awards. Axad12 (talk) 13:29, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

I just stumbled on Gold (2015 film), sourced entirely to primary sources. It seems there are several articles on his films; it's questionable whether these meet NFILM criteria. Netherzone (talk) 15:30, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

There is an issue here in that Tuschinski's publicist created articles in relation to the awards that his films had won. Thus the awards appear notable, and (by extension) the films that won those awards appear notable. The reality is that it is is probably all complete dross and part of a rather slick UPE exercise.

The way to dismantle this crock is probably to start with the awards and then the whole edifice may start to break down.

The publicist even went so far as to create articles for people who had mentioned Tuschinski, and then embedded the relevant quotes in the Tuschinski article with links to the relevant people's newly created articles.

Really it is all quite sick making. It goes way beyond the activities of a simple fan - it is quite advanced stuff. Axad12 (talk) 15:41, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12:, If one user is doing unambiguous promo, do a template warning. If you don't, chance is good AIV report for promo will be denied for "inadequate warning". Graywalls (talk) 15:39, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Just a note to thank you both for your continued assistance on this topic and for edits to the relevant articles.

The user has now been warned by an admin not to edit their own article again upon fear of being blocked. I've asked for clarification there that the warning also relates to editing about himself in other articles, which no doubt it will.

I'd have liked to have done more on this in recent days but unfortunately I've become tied up in a rather frustrating COIN case which has now spilled over to ANI and NPOVN. Hopefully that will resolve itself in the near future however.

Best wishes (and season's greetings), Axad12 (talk) 09:14, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Just a brief update here...

ATuschinski has now reported me to an admin for the various removals to his article and other articles he has been working on. I have responded, observing (amongst other things) that I am not the only user to have made such removals.

Regards, Axad12 (talk) 21:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12:, yeah that happens once in a while when you do PR or promo clean ups. Graywalls (talk) 22:15, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

@Axad12, just want to offer my support that you have done nothing wrong, and are conducting yourself with dignity and integrity. It is often standard operating procedure for a COI?PROMO editor to throw shade on those who report or correct non-compliance with COI guidance. Netherzone (talk) 00:10, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I actually welcome it when users do this sort of thing. Running off to an admin when obviously in the wrong is probably the very worst thing a COI/PROMO user can do.

My post above was purely FYI in case they should turn their fire onto yourselves. Axad12 (talk) 00:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Just a further note here...

One component of the Tuschinski-opedia which has avoided much attention thus far is Pagini Juridice, which is essentially a WP:COATRACK for much discussion of Tuschinski's ancestors. Axad12 (talk) 07:08, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

The notability guideline for academic journals is: WP:NJOURNAL. Netherzone (talk) 12:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

I must say that it doesn't seem clear to me that it meets the criteria. However, I'm unfamiliar with how the criteria are applied in practice, so I may be mistaken.

Even if the article meets notability criteria the intent of the content seems rather transparent - i.e. to extend the coverage of 2 non-notable individuals (whose articles will hopefully shortly be deleted).

Tuschinski has indicated his intent to create another article on the justice system in that particular area of Romania, which will presumably just be an extension of his hagiographical family walled garden.

We have seen this MO before with the articles created for awards he has won, for the individuals his documentaries have been about, etc., etc.

If deletion of COI material hadn't already commenced he probably would have created an article for his concept album by now... Axad12 (talk) 13:18, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

You've done a lot of good, hard work regarding COI issues on this project. And for the past month-and-a-half there's been a lot of exchanges between the two of us, some of that heated. I think you deserve this coffee break. 3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 12:57, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Youtube videos

Hi there,

There is a discussion at MOS Talk about AV content guidance, and we are trying to work out where advice about CC content / PD renditions, eg performances of PD works, that are being used for illustrative purposes on YT might go. The edit here was to explain that in these cases WP:RSPYT would not apply, ie because the content is not being used as a source. This recently proved hard to explain in an RFC, which is linked in the discussion on MOS Talk (does WP:RSPYT apply to this illustrative video) was one of the questions raised.

It'd be great if this explanation / nuance could go somewhere. Jim Killock (talk) 10:03, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Gilbertson Draft

Hey @Graywalls,

I have removed some of the primary sources you suggested getting rid of (i.e: Francis Tapon, Alan Arnette, Peakbagger). However, may I ask why you think he's non-notable? Between the coverage from The Times, Nat Geo Poland, Süddeutsche, Tages-Anzeiger, American Alpine Club, and a slew of sources after his Rainier Survey, I think he meets notability requirements despite the previous AfD. I think the main reason the article was deleted was because of my COI and my poor attempt at an article then. An overabundance of primary sources in the original article attempt is probably why the nominator thought it failed notability guidelines as plenty of sources can be found if you look. However, this draft represents a new attempt, and I have learned my lesson with COI editing (which I have declared). Should the article be moved to the mainspace, I will only propose edits through the talk page.

Also, you claim that primary sources are used in self-promoting, boastful ways. I reference his blog, FKT, and that MIT source to get his year of birth and birthplace, along with supplemental details of how he climbs country high points. The Canadian Highpoints was mentioned by FKT and I believe that is an important detail for his climbing career. I think I have written it in a neutral tone, but please correct me if I haven't.

The one thing I can see being "promotional" is the first ascents. Maybe I can move all primary sources to Gilbertson's website specifically as that is WP:ABOUTSELF. Though, the MIT was the only one I can find mentioning birth year and birthplace.

Would love to hear feedback. Thanks! KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 00:13, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

@KnowledgeIsPower9281: "along with supplemental details of how he climbs country high points" would be a good example. Misplaced Pages article is not Gilbertson's open mike. If you have to rely on his blogs, and other similar low value sources, the contents aren't worthy of inclusion. Graywalls (talk) 01:58, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

2025

Have a happy New Year filled with light!

Hi Graywalls, Best wishes that the new year brings peace, good health and happiness. Thank you for what you do for the encyclopedia and this community. The work you do keeping WP free of promotional editing is an admirable, although often thankless task. I wanted to personally thank you for your efforts and your research skills, and wish you a great year ahead. Image: New Year's Eve Foxfires at the Changing Tree, Oji, Utagawa Hiroshige, woodcut, 1857 Netherzone (talk) 15:46, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

Highpointing article

Hey @Graywalls,

Just wanted to ask why you removed the country highpointing information in the highpointing article as it is a small, but important aspect of the sport to cover. Although I have a conflict of interest with Eric, those paragraphs about Ginge Fullen, Francis Tapon, and Gilbertson were well sourced and did not contain any promotional material; just the history of highpointing and firsts in the sport.

Happy New Year!

KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 00:18, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Update: I added back in country highpoint information in the highpointing article without Eric Gilbertson as this is an important aspect of the sport to cover. I will refrain from inserting Gilbertson-related content in the article from now on unless approved by you or a different neutral editor. Cheers! KnowledgeIsPower9281 (talk) 00:33, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

@KnowledgeIsPower9281:, You really shouldn't be coming to me, or any editor in particular for "approval". Rather, they should go through Misplaced Pages:Edit requests, clearly disclosing your COI in the request, rather than saying this and that should be added with an appearance of a disinterested passerby. Graywalls (talk) 23:53, 2 January 2025 (UTC)