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Merge Requests

This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived.

  You are invited to join the discussion about whether individual rulers of Turk Shahis and Nezak Huns deserve individual pages. Relevant links are:

• Discussion on Ghar Ilchi
• Discussion on Bo Fuzhun
• Discussion on Tegin Shah
• Discussion on Barha Tegin

Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 16:58, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Project Opinion on Individual Pages about Ancient rulers

Is the very fact of being a ruler—whose existence can be verified—inherently deserving of a standalone page in itself? For all of the above cases we barely know anything of significance apart from one or two factoids sourced to one or two ancient sources. Can WP:DUP#2 be allowed to be violated for such cases by having the same information (in toto) on pages about the ruler as well as the dynasty? Opinions are welcome. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:58, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

WP:PAGEDECIDE is the guideline.

Sometimes, understanding is best achieved by presenting the material on a dedicated standalone page, but it is not required that we do so. There are other times when it is better to cover notable topics, that clearly should be included in Misplaced Pages, as part of a larger page about a broader topic, with more context. A decision to cover a notable topic only as part of a broader page does not in any way disparage the importance of the topic. Editorial judgment goes into each decision about whether or not to create a separate page, but the decision should always be based upon specific considerations about how to make the topic understandable, and not merely upon personal likes or dislikes.

One of my gripes, which I should do something about, is that Wikidata doesn't understand this. (It doesn't allow multiple topics sharing the same Wikipage.)

But, other than that, there is absolutely no reason to have individual pages for rulers or other individuals, dynasties, kingdoms, events etc. etc. I was just thinking yesterday that we should start a clean-up drive when I noticed that every individual mentioned in Umayyad campaigns in India now has a standalone page, basically based on the content from that page. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:29, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree with you (except for WD, which I am not conversant with). I emphasized on these very lines at this discussion but was told that it was customary to create page for notable rulers on Misplaced Pages.

I can join in the drive—why do people write stubs like Agguka I?—but there are hardly any eyes in these areas. A single revert by some obstinate editor is effectively a veto. TrangaBellam (talk) 17:53, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

In this case, obviously, it is to claim, "we won". -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Attempt of Censoring of a Certain Article which is Apparently RS

This RFC was initiated with the aim to censor a certain article from being included in the main Misplaced Pages article as a reference, specifically in the critical reception section. It is more of a concern to see the kind of arguments that are being placed in favor of censoring that article. To be precise, the arguments are largely appearing to be highly opinionated and subjective while having less connection with governing rules and guidelines. Such a case demands more participation from within the community so that a proper reflection of the consensus of Misplaced Pages community as a whole can be seen to reflect in the closing decision. ☆★Mamushir (✉✉) 04:18, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mamushir: While this board is the right venue to bring relevant discussions to the notice of editors knowledgeable about and interested in India-related articles, WP:CANVASSING participants through such a non-neutrally worded message is inappropriate. I trust that any editor directed to the discussion will look past your POV characterization of the issue, and judge the source and discussion for themselves. Abecedare (talk) 04:47, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

@Abecedare:, thanks for your comment but I don't think I have any certain position to preach to the other editors. If my notification was not clear enough, allow me to re-iterate: I have observed that the discussion has a tendency of putting emphasis on subjective opinions and is getting less governed by time tested rules - which made me think about inviting other editors to participate (I categorically avoided suggesting any position, didn't I?). My primary concern is that the consensus may not be proper or adequate as the participation so far isn't much and thus requires some greater attention. I believe my notification was very much acceptable in terms of WP:CANVASSING. The invocation of WP:INAPPNOTE was harsh. Any misplaced negative connotation will only create unwanted confusion, which anyone should avoid in a collaborative project like Misplaced Pages. ☆★Mamushir (✉✉) 06:20, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

PS: As you mentioned I also expect other editors to judge the source and discussion for themselves if they decide to participate in the relevant RFC at all. Though I don't think I have made any "POV characterization", rather would prefer to term it as a try to improve a community discussion in light of the last bullet point of Ideal Guideline on How to Respond to an RFC.☆★Mamushir (✉✉) 06:34, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

One of your project's articles has been selected for improvement!

Hello, Please note that Sikkimese cuisine, which is within this project's scope, has been selected as one of the Articles for improvement. The article is scheduled to appear on Misplaced Pages's Community portal in the "Articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBot 00:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC) on behalf of the AFI team

Caste cruft

Hi, it is regarding this revert situation. Is Koli a caste, community or an ethnic group? The source quotes added seem to mention that it is indeed a caste. If it is a caste or a community, then I believe self-identification would be necessary and additions like these have to be removed. Pinging @NitinMlk, Ekdalian, and Kautilya3: - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:47, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Ponyo, Fowler&fowler, Ab207, DaxServer, and Dwaipayanc: as well. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 15:06, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

It seems the statement that it is a "caste-cluster" (a group of related castes) seems accurate. It is equivalent to a large caste that has gotten subdivided. The caste policies do apply to it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:34, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Since caste is quite political, especially in this case, there are sources (this one atleast) that calls him a Rajput, while this one calls him an "OBC leader". Making it contentious per general WP:BLPPRIVACY policy, even if we don't take our "caste policies" into consideration. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:09, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Fylindfotberserk Although self identification is a different issue, I think both the sources which are given for Koli claim don't say what it is claiming. Franco, Fernando's book says quite the opposite of what is claimed in the quote, the second source of Chaitanya Krishna seems to be added with malicious attempt too because in the snippet view I couldn't find any part of the quote given in the citation. There has been sudden increase in disruptive editing by two three IPs in support of Koli caste pov, they tried changing the redirects Chouhan and Chavda, and doing disruptive editing at Parihar, Parmar and Rathore (surname) etc. Sajaypal007 (talk) 18:31, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm afraid I do not know much about this caste cluster. I can't help noticing though that as time goes by more and more, novel and yet more novel, caste-like names are appearing in Hindu India. The first censuses of the late-19th century had the effect of the upper castes beginning to use their caste identifications as their last names (Singh, Thakur, Doobay, Caubay, Rai, ...) By now all sorts have appeared, not just "Yadav," "Pal," and "Kashyap," ... but also "Rajput," "Maurya," ... India might be going through a new sociological phase in which the aspiring classes are adding ever new caste-like names to their more common older names. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:47, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

@Sajaypal007: Yeah, I've noticed that something is off with the quotations (the writing style mainly). So, I've used different phrases in the search field and it was not matching with the content. Yes, I too have noticed IPs (and new users ) POV pushing 'Koli' recently. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:39, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

• Fylindfotberserk, these are BLP violations. Kolis are mostly classified as a Scheduled Caste, although few of them are classified as a Scheduled tribe, and they come under Other Backward Class status in Gujarat. That's the reason a Koli politician like Ram Nath Kovind is known as a Dalit president of India, whereas those from Gujarat are known as backward caste, rather than Dalit. I guess the "caste-cluster" classification is mainly applicable to Kolis of Gujrat, where their caste status is unclear, as some of them have mixed with Rajputs. According to a scholar, they are known as "half-caste" there. The Rajputs' relationship with Kolis can be explained by the fact that many Rajputs of Gujarat are struggling with poverty, e.g. around one-fifth of them are landless labourers. BTW, the present version of the Koli article mainly focuses on the Kolis of Gujarat. I guess the reason for that may be the paucity of modern scholarly sources focussing on the North Indian Dalit Kolis.

As far as the recent Koli-related disruption is concerned, that seems like the work of the highly disruptive Koli sock master. I have filed an SPI about them: Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Thakor Sumant Sinhji Jhala. But there is no point in fixing articles like this one, this one, or this one unless they are under the extended-protection. Sitush has wasted a lot of time on this sock master in the past, but their socks keep on mangling everything.

- NitinMlk (talk) 23:28, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

I've come across this case page before. Not many articles, but possibly have reverted a few of their sock edits. I'll keep an eye. And yes, these articles requires EC protection. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:40, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

This is another of those articles that have turned to cr*p last year, when I wasn't editing. Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:44, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Just today user:Drishti2021 readded this again, reverting EvergreenFir's edit. Obviously I reverted it back per self-identification. I'd like to request people to keep an eye on this article @Sajaypal007, NitinMlk, and EvergreenFir:

Added in the watchlist. Sajaypal007 (talk) 11:41, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

RfC at Talk:Prithviraj Chauhan

Request for comment on Talk:Prithviraj Chauhan on two points whether he headed a confederacy in the battle against Muhammad of Ghor and whether he was called an emperor by historians or not. Sajaypal007 (talk) 18:03, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Sivananda Saraswati

Apparently, he is 125 years old who is now conferred with Padma Shri, and our article says he died in 1963. Could someone with a knowledge about the person do the necessary updates? Thanks a ton! — DaxServer (t · m · c) 07:08, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

He's a different person probably? This source says he was born in 1896 in Sylhet, which if correct, makes him the oldest living person and verified oldest person ever! -- Ab207 (talk) 07:22, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

So, is this the correct article then? Sivananda (cc @Mukesh.kfc) — DaxServer (t · m · c) 08:05, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

And Yoga guru Swami Sivananda — DaxServer (t · m · c) 08:10, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

There is reliable evidence that Swami Sivananda Saraswati died in 1963, indeed his own organisation the Divine Life Society published a booklet about his last days, confirming the date of his death, so it is agreed both inside the world of devotees and outside it. This other Yoga guru Swami Sivananda is certainly a different person. I'll put hatnotes on both articles now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:15, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Sivananda Saraswati and Sivananda (yoga teacher) are two different person.

• Sivananda Saraswati was died in 1963.
• But Sivananda (yoga teacher) is still alive.

So please don't confuse with them. Mukesh.kfc (talk) 10:21, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

But the 125 should be taken with a bucket of salt. The Guinness Book says that the oldest man, reliably attested, lived to 112 (woman to 119); so this man is younger (for otherwise he would have been in it, they would have found some record of primary school etc). Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

@Fowler&fowler I have read and removed puffery from the latter's page. Hindu says, his birth claim is based on Temple register. There will be many Shivananda in that register, assuming it is accurate (very big assumption). And it is quite easy to stake claim to an older DOB of a guy with same name. DOBious claims aside, puns intended, I dont believe he deserves a place on Misplaced Pages. Padma Shri (4th award) is not sufficient to pass WP:ANYBIO, the only coverage are sensational age based and award. Venkat TL (talk) 20:58, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for doing this and for the nicely written explanation, :). I can't speak to his overall notability, but the age claim, which may be a big part of the notability as you state, does seem a little far-fetched. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:49, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Vijaya Tahilramani

Can someone with experience in copy-editing please take a look at Vijaya Tahilramani - right now it has been repeatedly edited by non-logged in users with inappropriate language more suited to pulp fiction novels than a Misplaced Pages entry (The lede contains the phrase "sensational bribery case", for e.g.). Given this is a biography of a living person I suspect statements in the article may require verification from the sources to ensure no BLP violations. Thank you. - Naushervan (talk) 04:36, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Paywalls

The Indian newspapers are increasingly going behind paywalls. Those of you that have access to The Misplaced Pages Library can access some (but not all) articles on ProQuest. I think at least the news articles are available, but the so-called "premium content" may not be.

You can include ProQuest links in citations by using |id={{ProQuest|NNN}} so that the rest of us can access them easily. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:21, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Here is an example:

• "College refutes charge by students". The Hindu. 1 January 2022. ProQuest 2615545813.

-- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:25, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@Kautilya3 Do you know of any tools on Toolforge that could help with this? — DaxServer (t · m · c) 09:48, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't know. It would indeed be nice if the ProQuest links could be automatically added. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:40, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

I can write a python script to automate adding PQ links for news-articles on any page but Toolfroge is alien concept. TrangaBellam (talk) 12:27, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

@TrangaBellam I think you'll need to have an approval to run the bot prior from Misplaced Pages:Bot requests — DaxServer (t · m · c) 12:39, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

All these days, it wasn't clear what was real India Today and what was its web portal (originally called Mail Today') and its TV (originally called Headlines Today). It is now clear, because the real India Today has gone behind a paywall, but available on ProQuest (ProQuest 2640950810). -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:26, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Dappan koothu#Requested move 16 March 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dappan koothu#Requested move 16 March 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 🐶 EpicPupper 00:20, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Assembly constituencies article titles

There are around 400 articles in Category:Assembly constituencies of Uttar Pradesh, all of which are titled wrong. They are all in the format "place (Assembly constituency)". Used as a disambiguator, Assembly should be lower case. But since there is a more natural way to disambiguate these, they can be named Charthawal assembly constituency instead of Charthawal (Assembly constituency), for example. Any comments/concerns with renaming these? MB 00:55, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

There was a recent discussion on this at WT:INPOL. Specifically on brackets, a number of other such constituency articles use them, with some projects recommending them as well. Hemantha (talk) 02:51, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

@MB In the linked discussion, I have made a case for naming it as "Charthawal Assembly constituency" without bracket. The A in Assembly has to be capital because it is a definite Assembly, UP Assembly in this case. Rest is acceptable. Please see the thread below and support the proposal. --Venkat TL (talk) 09:38, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Indian politics § Proposal : Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions Indian constituencies. Venkat TL (talk) 12:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Saara Deva#Requested move 18 March 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Saara Deva#Requested move 18 March 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ~Styyx 16:26, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Riythvika Panneerselvam#Requested move 18 March 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Riythvika Panneerselvam#Requested move 18 March 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 🐶 EpicPupper 02:14, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Prannoy Haseena Sunil Kumar

Hi all, can anyone here help about Prannoy Haseena Sunil Kumar page title? User:Lancepark moved Prannoy Kumar to Prannoy H. S.. I still confused about the title, does the title of the article still use Prannoy Kumar per WP:NCP or the title should be Prannoy H. S. or H. S. Prannoy? Thanks cc: User:NitinMlk, User:Zoglophie. Stvbastian (talk) 15:50, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Stvbastian I think the older title Prannoy Kumar is appropriate. This is because "Haseena Sunil" are his parents name, and his own name is just Prannoy Kumar. Maybe @Lancepark: is more knowledgeable in this naming convention, but I believe a discussion before a page move should have taken place. zoglophie 17:02, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

I will add the link to the naming convention for the subject under Malayali name section of Indian name, since the subject is from the southern India (Kerala to be specific). The conventions for Indian names largely vary for the people who belong to the Southern states where full names are often less used in public sphere/or are shortened to initials (Like in case of P. V. Sindhu). The convention followed is "Given name, Father's name", though additional village names, middle names or mother's name are also added as well. In this case, "Haseena" is the mother's name while "Sunil Kumar" is the subject's father, while the given name is "Prannoy", with no family name used. Thus the title "Prannoy H. S." used aligns with the naming convention (although H. S. Prannoy maybe used too) and is also the one registered on the BWF profile. Lancepark (talk) 19:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Indian politics § Proposal : Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions Indian constituencies

 You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Indian politics § Proposal : Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions Indian constituencies. --Venkat TL (talk) 13:40, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Kwasi Kwarteng

I have logged his/her plagiarism. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 00:08, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

It turns out that the book was published by Bloomsbury and seems to have been well-received. So I went back to check more closely. Kwarteng cites Bose and summarises him. But his wording is still what we would consider close paraphrasing. Here is an example:

• Bose: When released he had cigarette burns all over his body, sustained during interrogation. Ashfaq left home and “disappeared” shortly after being released. He never came home again. But during 1989 he emerged as a household name across his homeland as one of the HAJY group—...the nucleus of young Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) militants freshly returned to Srinagar with weapons and training from across the Line of Control (LOC).
• Kwarteng: After his release, he was found to have cigarette burns all over his body, and he promptly left home and ‘disappeared’. He never came home again, but in 1989 he emerged as a household name in Kashmir. He was now a leading member of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front.

-- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:49, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

References

1. Bose, Sumantra (2003), Kashmir: Roots of Conflict, Paths to Peace, Harvard University Press, p. 103, ISBN 0-674-01173-2
2. Kwarteng, Kwasi (2011), Ghosts of Empire: Britain's Legacies in the Modern World, Bloomsbury Publishing, p. 138, ISBN 9781408822906

Requested move at Talk:Tatineni Rama Rao#Requested move 23 March 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tatineni Rama Rao#Requested move 23 March 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 🐶 EpicPupper 16:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Sex ratio charts

Almost all the district pages of Jammu and Kashmir now have sex ratio charts like this one. This example is from the Reasi district. As far as I can see, none of the other districts of India have such charts. For example, the neighbouring Pathankot district or an arbitrarily-picked Pune district.

These charts are quite useless and take-up valuable screen space and mess up the formatting of the page. Can we agree that they should be deleted? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:01, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Support removal. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:15, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Apologies, but I oppose this. Violence toward neo-natal and fetal females which the gender ratio in part encapsulate is a very important aspect of Indian demography, especially that of the Indo-Aryan speaking regions. After being documented in the British censuses, there was a gap after independence, but the Indian censuses finally came around to restoring them. They document not just violence at birth or in the womb (unrelated to the freedom of choice of the mother), but also through childhood by way of neglect of nutrition and healthcare, and indeed, through life, leading to early and more mortality. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:14, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

PS These charts also have other information. For example, in Baramulla_district#Demographics where the Hindu GRs are very low, they seem to indicate that the Hindu females have migrated out in great proportion. I think these tables would be useful in all districts of India, in Indo-Aryan regions for sure, but also other regions to demonstrate the contrast. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:28, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

PS2 See for example Chengalpattu#Demographics in TN (1020 females to 1000 males) or the heavily tribal Nabarangpur_district#Demographics in Odisha, where there are 1018 females to 1000 males. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:11, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

• Unless the article includes a discussion on the sex ratio, I think we should remove them. I agree with fowler that sex ratios are an important aspect of Indian demography, but I don't think we should include uncontextualized material (tables, images, graphs, etc.) in any article. --RegentsPark (comment) 23:27, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

  But then by that logic all the illustrations in the demography sections of J&K districts pages should be removed because they have less discussion in the article body than the sex ratios do. You've hit on a very important point that there is not enough discussion in the article body for which the illustration would be an illustrative help or complement. But I feel the stress should be on increasing the textual coverage. Perhaps they can all be slapped with tags which enourage them to do so (rather than remove the illustrations). Fowler&fowler«Talk» 23:59, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

  @Fowler&fowler:, the other charts are well understood and don't need explicit discussion. Everyone understands religion, historical populations, and language demographis and these are an integral part of standard demographic presentations. Sex ratios, on the other hand, are not usually included in demographics and need to be contextualized. Without some explanation, the lay reader would wonder why they're being presented with this chart and the explanation (that India has an endemic problem of female infanticide and keeping girls healthy) is probably too complicated to include in every geographical article. Not only that, as Abecedare rightly points out, both the disparity in sex ratios (cf. this), as well as the the causes for that disparity may be different for different districts and we would need sources that explicitly discuss, for example, that ratio in the Reasi district. A better idea would be to create articles for each state (particularly those north western ones).--RegentsPark (comment) 12:57, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

  @RegentsPark: A few years ago I had seen the sex ratio results for the country (by state) and was perplexed the Kashmir numbers, which did not seem to fit the general trend: Indo-Aryan speaking caste Hindus (low), Muslims (mid to high), Dalits, Tribal. Dravidian-speaking Hindus, Christians, and Buddhists (high). After seeing these charts yesterday I finally understood. The low numbers for J&K seem to be affected by the Hindu numbers and to some extent the Sikh, not the Muslim, even though it is a Muslim-majority state. See, for example, Baramulla_district#Demographics, or Udhampur_district#Demographics). They will of course need to be double checked for accuracy. The problem with the general overview/perspective articles (on sex ratios, for example) that you and Abecedare are proposing is that they are almost never written. We shouldn't really be deleting information until the good intentions give way to a reality. Your link with the map is very useful. I would be especially happy if the districts that are brownish-maroon (e.g. in Ladakh) or red, i.e. ones of concern, have such displays. For the others, it is probably not that important.

On the other hand, I don't see much value in the historical trends K3 added to all the districts yesterday, right at the top, scrunching the others below. They all seem to be the same. They are perplexing as there was no census in Kashmir in 1951. I don't know how reliable it was in 1991, yet they both show exactly the same percentages, one from which there was a pandit exodus out, the other which saw in influx (see Baramulla and Udhampur).

• Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:08, 31 March 2022 (UTC) Pinging. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:13, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

  @RegentsPark: and @Abecedare: please see my more thought through reply to K3 below. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:13, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

• I'm with RegentsPark on this. The topic is important and we should better develop (or create) India-level articles on this topic where the issue is discussed with comparison across time, regions/states, religion, castes, peer countries etc; I am pretty confident that there is ample literature to do so. If there is sufficient literature, it may even make sense to develop such articles for particular states and communities. But I see little justification to display essentially raw data along one axis (eg, sex-ratio vs religion) in district level articles. That raises WP:DUE concerns and frankly enters WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS territory. In addition, without secondary sources sifting and analyzing the data, the raw data itself can be uninterpretable or even misleading, for eg, unaddressed questions for the Reisi district data above include: are the differences between the Hindu-Sikh or even Muslim community statistically significant? are the vastly different numbers for 'others' a result of sampling issues or something else? are the differences solely a result of selective foeticite/infanticide/neglect or, say, do employment-based migration patterns play a role? etc.

The efforts are much better spent developing the List of states and union territories of India by sex ratio article (it should not be a mere list) and the articles in its See also section where such issues can be detailed. Abecedare (talk) 00:47, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Still not seeing a case for only removing the colorful bar chart for the sex ratios. Until yesterday, if you had removed the raw data, (i.e. the collapsed one from the Census) the typical demographic section looked like this (to take Kupwara for example). It had a little bit of easily comprehended non-raw data. Then Kautilya3 chose to add historical population growth (very much mostly raw, with simple percentages) to each district. And now he wants one of the other illustrations to be removed. Why? The raw data is in his addition and the collapsed one. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:24, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

True, one might not be able to sort out the reasons for the various gender ratios by each religious community. But still, if you look at Kupwara (above), which as an overall gender ratio of 835, well below the Indian average, you can instantly tell that it is not because of the Muslims, for whom the GR is 912, which is greater than the Indian average, but like you said, we will not be able to tell why the Hindu ratios are so low (migration or other). Same with Leh district in Ladakh, which has one of the lowest GRs in the country at 690. If you look at the Leh_district#Demographics, you can see right away that the anomaly is not because of the Buddhists (the largest group) for their GR is 1018. It is not even because of the Muslims, which can be native, and whose GR is low but not that low, but mainly because of the Hindus who are not a native population. So most likely it is single Hindu men who are employed in the businesses. I agree that you will not be able to answer every question, but that is enough in the data by way of informing and intriguing, for a reader to then find better sources. The problem with the large overview pages is that someone who is only interested in Leh or Kupwara is not likely to go to them, unless something really intrigues them in the local pages. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:55, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

The other charts are presenting raw data in a graphical form: proportions of religions or preponderance of lanuages in the overall population. But this chart is making a correlation and therefore calling for interpretation. Why not, for example, a nose-length-by-religion chart? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:38, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, @Kautilya3: what is a nose-length-by-religion chart? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:29, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

To raise the question of why two factors are being correlated. You have a theory. Somebody else might have another theory, say Love Jihad, or, maybe something innocuous, like migrant labourers who don't bring their women in. Throwing up raw data without interpretation just encourages speculation.

Historical populations have become available from the Census of India a few years ago, and they have been added and continue to be added to a lot of district pages. They show historical development levels. Sometimes they are also useful for finding out whether a district as it exists now is the same as what it used to be some decades ago (because districts get constantly get reorganised, especially in J&K). -- Kautilya3 (talk) 16:59, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

@Kautilya3:

First, "Sex ratios" or "gender composition," are very much on the front burner of populations statistics of the Indian government, for example, taking up more pages than any other chapter in the popular Provisional Results of the 2011 Census, 12 to be sure, pages 30 to 41.

Second, Religion might not be mentioned, but there is comparison between districts nonetheless. Leh district is mentioned among the districts with the two lowest gender ratios.

Third, People speculate no matter what information you give them. If you say, J&K is low, there are people who will speculate that the Muslims kill their newborns or unborns, but the way to discourage such speculation is not to remove information, but to add more, for example, in the form of child sex-ratios (between ages of 0 to 6). If those are also high for Muslims and low for Hindus, then obviously neither Love Jihad no labor-driven immigration of single men are adequate explanation, though they might constitute a share of cases.

Fourth, more information disabuses disinformation, which is what an encyclopedia is about.

Fifth, in fact, what I garnered from desultorily eyeballing these tables is stated in a Bhat, Bashir A. (2014), "Reality behind Declining Child Sex Ratio in Kashmir-India," in Population Association of America, 2014 Annual Meeting, Boston (Note its definition of sex ratio is the reverse, i.e. the number of men per 1000 women; so 112 is a low SR in the conventional sense and 90 is high):

A look at information contained in Table:1 shows that during 2010-13, information regarding the sex ratio at birth in J&K is available for 5665851 live births. Of these births 296591 are male and 269260 are female. Thus the sex ratio at birth for the State works out to be 110. The sex ratio at birth in Kashmir is 106 and it is 105 in Ladakh. Jammu region in general and districts which have a huge concentration of Hindu population have an abnormal SRB of 117. This means that though some couples in J&K are avoiding the birth of girls while ensuring the birth of boys but this problem is much more acute in Jammu region and not in Kashmir Valley. A SRB ranging between 115-124 in most of the Hindu majority districts, clearly bring out that sex selective abortion is much more prevalent in Jammu region than projected by Census-2011. Besides, contrary to the Census findings, Kashmir and Ladakh region have a normal sex ratio.

The paper, among other things, shows how much of a public health effort is being waged to discourage sex-selective abortions. So I would even add the child sex ratio tables, but adequate textual explanation, of course. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:56, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Gunga Jumna#Requested move 24 March 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Gunga Jumna#Requested move 24 March 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 🐶 EpicPupper 18:27, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Sanjiv Bhatt

It is regrading this kind of edits on ethnicity/caste. While this tweet coming from Bhatt's verified handle satisfies our self-identification criteria about him being a 'Kashmiri Pandit', this 'interview' source however, he claims to be a 'Gujarati'. It is possible that 'Gujarati' in the latter case may mean as a resident of Gujarat rather than ethnically Gujarati as in the case of this actor. KIndly provide your inputs. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:35, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk can they tweet from jail? Venkat TL (talk) 10:04, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@Venkat TL: Who knows lol? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:05, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk His wife runs the Free Sanjiv Bhatt campaign and uses his twitter. She had mentioned this several times in tweets. He is a Gujarati by cadre and may be residence. Caste can still be Kashmiri Pandit. Bhatt is a typical kashmiri Brahman surname. So the twitter note is believable. The wiki article can attribute this. Venkat TL (talk) 10:26, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@Venkat TL: I was maintaining the 'Gujarati' part till some IP came up with this verified handle. That was OK per our criteria. Now some IPs are trying to change it back to Gujarati. And yes many Kashmiri Pandits live in Gujarat, though Bhatt is a Gujarati Brahmin surname. I wonder if we can mention both attributing to the sources, and remove the ethnic part from the categories. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:30, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

If they are self identifying them as X why you want to question that? Attribute them for the claim and move on. Gujarati in the interveiw is reference to cadre and residence. It does not say ethnic Gujarati, if there are no other sources, then we should not mention gujarati in ethnicity. His Gujarati cadre is discussed in the career section. I believe this should be maintained and IPs should be reverted and asked to bring RS for their claims. Venkat TL (talk) 10:41, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@Venkat TL: If you check the article history and my edit summaries, you'll find I am the one reverting such changes, not questioning it. I'm here to get a consensus on this thing after repeated changes to Gujarati especially when his Kashmiri Pandithood is being questioned in the social media, not to mention you said 'His wife runs the Free Sanjiv Bhatt campaign and uses his twitter' (something I was unaware of). As for the suggestion → "I wonder if we can mention both attributing to the sources, and remove the ethnic part from the categories", it is a way to let WP:READERS decide themselves in a contentious situation. Anyway, this thread will be used as a consensus in such case in the future. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:19, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk ok. The tweet even if coming from wife or himself should be acceptable about caste. I note that we have no source about Ethnic Gujarati claim. So there is not much to dispute. Venkat TL (talk) 11:32, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

@Venkat TL: Agreed. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:35, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Vijaya Tahilramani

Once again requesting a more experienced editor to take a look at Vijaya Tahilramani, which is the subject of constant injection of inflammatory language ("sensational bribery case") by non-logged in IPs. Since we are nearing an edit war, if someone could intervene, I'd be grateful. Thanks. - Naushervan (talk) 11:04, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

I've asked for protection of the article, since the IP appears to be dynamic. Hemantha (talk) 11:23, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, appreciate it. - Naushervan (talk) 11:59, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Need suggestions

Greetings to everyone!

I had posted a Question/suggestion on the talk page of List of Mughal empresses but unfortunately, the page doesn't seem to get much attention and the suggestion is likely to be left unseen. Could anyone please check it?
Manavati (talk) 12:10, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Don't know too much about this particular topic, but I agree that "Empresses of Shah Jahan" or "Empresses of Akbar" doesn't sound clear or unambivalent. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:44, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

FAR for Durian

I have nominated Durian for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm _Talk 17:37, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Zail Singh

It is regarding this edit. Seems POV and SYNTH skimming through it. Would like to ping @Tayi Arajakate, Kautilya3, Vanamonde93, TrangaBellam, and Venkat TL:. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:19, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I've removed that. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 12:35, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

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