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Revision as of 17:28, 13 March 2011

Food and drink Project‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Food and Drink task list: edit history watch purge To edit this page, select here Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink: Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish Participate in project-related deletion discussions. Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this. Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here. Provide photographs and images for Category:Misplaced Pages requested images of food Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

We now have our own barnstar

{{The Food and Drink Barnstar}}

To use this template, add
{{subst:The Food and Drink Barnstar|put your citation here ~~~~}} to the talk page of the user to whom you wish to award it. Here is how you it will look:

		The Food and Drink Barnstar
		You put your message here. Don't forget to sign it with four tildes!

Other barnstars can be found on the barnstars page, all follow the same format.

--Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 02:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

New Award

As audited food and drink articles are underrepresented, I have dangled a new carrot here bon appetit Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:44, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Notable Restaurants needing articles

Having recently participated in a notability discussion related to restaurant reviews, I did some research and created this subpage: Notable Restaurants needing articles to assist and prompt editors who might be interesting in expanding restaurant coverage in WP. --Mike Cline (talk) 17:06, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Moved page to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Food and drink/Foodservice taskforce/Notable Restaurants needing articles per advice of User:Jerem43. --Mike Cline (talk) 19:23, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Thomcord grapes

Inspired by a DYK on the main page concerning grapes, I have created an article for the Thomcord variety, which happens to be my favorite... when I can find it! It has been nominated for DYK, and I plan to put it up for GAC and possibly FAC very soon. Writing about grapes (instead of lemurs—my specialty) was a very educational experience. Yet I'm worried that my lack of experience in this field may necessitate some attention from an expert. Would someone who is more knowledgeable of grapes please look over the article before I post it for GAC? (I will be posting this message on WikiProject Wine as well.) – VisionHolder « talk » 23:42, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

...eh... I think I'll just nominate it for GAC now, but the FAC nomination will definitely wait for a feedback from one or both of these projects. I've also written an email to David Ramming (its creator) for his feedback as well. – VisionHolder « talk » 00:00, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I've got that GA review for you. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 18:37, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Mosodeng for deletion

The article Mosodeng is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Mosodeng until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 16:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Chili

I thought people here would be interested in a discussion I just started at Talk:Chili con carne. I think that article name is incorrect, and it should be called Chili (stew). This is more appropriate as not all chilis are made with meat (con carne). Join the discussion there for input. — Timneu22 · talk 00:00, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Category:Tea and coffee stubs

Please note that I have nominated Category:Tea and coffee stubs for splitting and deleting. Feel free to express your opinions at Misplaced Pages:Stub types for deletion/Log/2011/January/12#Category:Tea and coffee stubs. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:55, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

History of Wine Article

The History of wine article has not yet been assessed against the "B-Class" criteria. Would like it to be assessed. Adamdaley (talk) 06:05, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Online Reliable Sources

Hi folks. I am trying to improve a couple food articles and am wondering if the Food Project has any sort of directory of online food sites considered RS, or if anyone has some good sites to suggest. Thanks, The Interior(Talk) 23:53, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

It depends on the type of articles you are talking about. If they are restaurants or commercial food companies you can look at the industry trades such as Nation's Restaurant News. If they are about a cuisine or dish from a specific cuisine, look at the parent article (Xxx cuisine) and see if there is anything usable there. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 01:14, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

When it comes to food products, well-known dishes/cuisines or notable restaurants, many local libraries now have online access (at no cost) to some of the premium database research sites. I've had luck with this method, as it allows you to quickly dig up archived articles from industry-specific trade publications (like Nation's Restaurant News). I've also found these resources to be helpful:

• food manufacturing
• progressive grocer
• Penn State food science research guide

Is there a certain article/topic area that you have in mind? Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 22:23, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for great pointers, both of you. The article I was trying to source is Chouquette but I would also like to make some improvements to Poutine. The Interior(Talk) 23:04, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Happy to help. I actually found a handful of solid references for Chouquette and Poutine by doing a google books search:

• The Oxford companion to food
• The Pastry Chef's Companion: A Comprehensive Resource Guide
• Montreal & Quebec City for Dummies
• You Know You're in New Hampshire When...
• Frommer's Montreal & Quebec City 2009

You'll notice that only certain pages of each book are viewable when searching with Google Books. I find it to be a helpful starting point, and it often points me in the right direction of what books to seek out at the library or book store. Jeff Bedford (talk) 02:04, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Merge these two panning articles

I've had my account here for a long time, but I'm not a very active editor, so I don't know all the procedures. Apologies if this isn't the way to do this. Sugar panning is a "high" importance stub. Cold panned process is a "low" importance stub. Both are about essentially the same thing. It seems to me that cold panned should be merged into sugar panning. I've borrowed Sugar Confectionery Manufacture from the library and will be updating sugar panning anyway. --Elijah (talk) 05:27, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Big mistake

Kefalotyri and Graviera

• Kefalotyri means yellow cheese in wheels,kefali is greek for cheese-wheel and tyri is cheese, all yellow cheese in wheels are considered Kefalotyri (exaple: reggato kefalotyri) but if it is used along it usually means graviera cheese.
• plz correct it.

It may be true historically that kefalotyri refers to all cheese in wheels, however normal modern usage refers to a particular hard cheese, usually used grated. See for example http://www.dodoni.eu/Home/Products/HardCheese/Kefalotiri.xml.aspx?Language=2 or the Babiniotis and Andriotis dictionaries. --Macrakis (talk) 20:01, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Cuba_Libre#Requested_move

All input welcome. Cheers. victor falk 00:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Proposed revision of Gatorade article

Hello fellow Wikiproject Food and Drink folks, I've proposed a revision of the Gatorade article here and thought this would be of interest to some of you. If it is, please feel free to join in on the discussion on that article's Talk page. Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 03:16, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

List of meat animals

I have started a discussion at Talk:List of meat animals#Scope, again to determine whether the scope of the list allows for a valid stand-alone list. All input is welcome.

Thank you, -- Black Falcon 18:09, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Seven layer dip

Apparently, part of the American Super Bowl ritual includes a Seven layer dip. Although it's a few days late, just figured someone (esp. Americans?) on this Wikiproject may be interested in expanding Seven layer dip or Dip (food)? Perhaps by next year? :-) Just a thought. Shreevatsa (talk) 08:08, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

My goodness, the Seven layer dip article is in dire need of help. Not a single citation in sight! I'll do my best to bring it closer in line with Misplaced Pages content standards over the next week, and will give a heads-up right here once I am done so that you and others can take a gander. Out of curiosity, I checked the stats for this article and you are right--it does get a lot more attention around Super Bowl time: stats.grok.se/en/201102/Seven_layer_dip Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 20:36, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Why should all Taiwanese foods be listed under Chinese?

I see this as another attempt to Chinese-everything that's Taiwanese. Bubble tea or boba is purely Taiwanese. Grilled squid is also purely Taiwanese. All foods have its origins. American hot dogs derived from German frankfurter, so why is it called German hot dogs? Did Taiwanese oyster vermicelli really come from China? Please look into it. Are they exactly alike? If not, it should not be listed as sub-category of Chinese food. What about eel noodles? I don't think it came from China. What about the Taiwanese foods that have Japanese influence? Why is Taiwanese food not listed as a sub-category of Japanese food? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.165.229.45 (talk • contribs)

Just like California cuisine is part Cuisine of the United States. Ignoring the disputed nature of Taiwan, Taiwanese cuisine is still a subset of Chinese cuisine. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 21:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Can we have a rating for importance for Romaine lettuce, please?

The article on Romaine lettuce gives the article a rating of stub, but does not have an importance rating for the article. Can this be rectified, please? Thank you in advance for any co-operation here. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:23, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

A little project on Michelin stars

Alrighty, so it's kind of a niche interest, but I've been trying to fill out and create articles for Michelin starred restaurants, starting with New York. Any help is certainly appreciated. There's still a lot to go and the articles I've created need a lot of improvement. Thanks!--Yaksar (let's chat) 06:33, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd be happy to be of help -- can you let me know of a few articles that you've already created or improved in pursuit of this project? While I'm no expert on New York (I only visit there once every two years or so), I could certainly copy-edit a few of the articles that you've tackled already. Always helps to have a second set of eyes. Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 20:28, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I've gotta look through for the plenty of others that need to be edited, but off the top of my head the one's that I created (all of which are pretty miserable stubs) are

• Marea (restaurant)
• Wd~50
• Corton (restaurant)

And this one's chicago but I may as well throw it in

• L2O

There's certainly a lot needed (I'm not sure copy-editing would even be enough) but they certainly are all deserving of articles at least.--Yaksar (let's chat) 20:43, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll be happy to take a closer look at these ones and will follow up with any resulting suggestions/thoughts on your user talk page. If any others have input on notability guidelines specific to restaurants, please do chime in. In approaching this project I might recommend emphasizing quality over quantity of articles. More simply put, 'tis better (for both Misplaced Pages's aims and your own use of time well spent) to create 3 high-quality articles than 30 start-class articles. I find it helps to approach articles one or two at a time. In the meantime, I think you'll find this guide to be quite helpful: How to write a great article. Cheers, Jeff Bedford (talk) 22:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I certainly agree with quality over quantity. But I often find (especially with new editors) that people are much more likely to work on improving an article if it already exists, rather than having to go through the daunting task of laying out all of the framework.--Yaksar (let's chat) 22:59, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Well said, Yaksar. We all have different strengths here, and oftentimes the best articles are a result of Wikipedians with complementary skills tackling different aspects of each article. I'll follow up in the next week or so with ideas/feedback on the articles you listed above. Jeff Bedford (talk) 00:12, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Gyro and gyros and shawarma and döner kebab

Discussion at talk:gyros. IMO these are content forks and should be merged; there isn't any significant regional difference (certainly the Turkish one is just the Greek with a Turkish name; I haven't been to Lebanon), and what there is can be more coherently illustrated by describing them together. Also, AFAIK "gyros" is not a singular form in English, or at least not a common one, so the page should be moved, maybe to gyro (food). — kwami (talk) 22:56, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

I personally agree that gyros and shawarma and döner kebab represent a content fork, but note that gyro is is dab page should stay that way. P. D. Cook 19:43, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

We could really use some neutral third-party contributions to the discussion on this merger. This is a special case of a more general phenomenon, where articles are fragmented along arbitrary national/​ethnic/​linguistic lines instead of following the logical structure of the content. --Macrakis (talk) 19:14, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree. See my comment below. Pyrope 00:11, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Kebabs are NOT Gyros

Kebabs are NOT Gyros. If you've ever eaten both, you know this. Pure and Simple. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.147.210.162 (talk) 00:53, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

You are right that they are not the same thing, but the articles mentioned above do duplicate some content. P. D. Cook 15:32, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Wrong, while kebabs are not gyros, gyros are kebabs. A kebab is merely "meat roasted or grilled on a skewer or spit" (Oxford American Dictionary). Not all waterfowl are ducks, but all ducks are waterfowl. Pyrope 17:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

There are two issues here:

• The word "kebab" in English can refer to shish kebab (chunks of meat cooked on a small skewer), doner kebab (slices of meat stacked up on a vertical spit and sliced to order), and to sandwiches made with shish kebab or doner kebab meat. In Turkish, of course, kebab is much broader than that, but that's another issue.
• Doner kebab is essentially the same thing as gyro -- in fact, in Greece, gyros used to be called 'doner' (ντονέρ). There is lots of variation in doner kebab/gyro sandwiches, but this variation does not seem to correlate closely with the name. There is similarly lots of variation in pizza.... --Macrakis (talk) 19:19, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

In English, kebab means "stuff grilled or roasted on a stick", there is no requirement that it be shish or doner, or indeed souvlaki, shami, or random assortments of things put on a bamboo skewer and sat on a backyard barbie. They are all forms of kebab. The usage is different to that in the original language, but as this is the English language Misplaced Pages it is the English usage that matters. We aren't here to tell people how to use words; we describe not proscribe. What we have here are nationalists and pedants making silly splits in the same hair. Pyrope 00:09, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree with Pyrope, as the English WP we use the English conventions the definition of a kebab in English is a food cooked on a spit (stick). My advice is the same as his, go with this definition and stay away from ethnic and nationalistic divisions that are nothing more than tempests in a teapot. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I also do not like to enter these national pride issues, but in A Dictionary of Food and Nutrition. Ed. David A. Bender. Oxford University Press 2009., the term "kebab" is defined as "Turkish for roast meat. Shishkebab is small pieces of mutton rubbed with salt, pepper, etc., and roasted on a skewer (shish in Turkish) sometimes interspaced with vegetables. Shashlik is a Georgian version." ... then gyros does not have an entry. As far as I checked Encyclopedia Brittanica do not have an entry for kebab, but specific entries for the variations. --Anneyh (talk) 10:40, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

What you are quoting is the origin of the word in a specialized book, not the actual, standard dictionary definition. The standard dictionary definition is what we should be using to help form the base of what would be the more common term used in English. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 10:59, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Lactation within the scope of this project?

Noticed that Talk:Lactation shows a banner of this project, does that make any sense? Richiez (talk) 23:51, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

That was place there three years ago in a bot tagging run. IMHO, yes, because milk is the very first thing we ever consume as mammals. It is the primal, most fundamental food that we, as humans, provide for our young. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 11:05, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

What is the precise physicochemical nature of resistant starch (RS3) ?

I removed this post because its author is publicizing a research paper that he had written. As it appears to be self promotional, I believe its inclusion violates the guidelines of Misplaced Pages and deleted it as such. If anyone disagrees with me, please feel free to research it and restore if I am incorrect. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 19:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

This deletion has been bugging me. The author seems to have disclosed his self interest, and one link to a third-party published journal article of which he is the author is not prohibited by conflict of interest rules: "Editing in an area in which you have professional or academic expertise is not, in itself, a conflict of interest. Using material you yourself have written or published is allowed within reason, but only if it is relevant and conforms to the content policies. Excessive self-citation is strongly discouraged." Additionally, this is a talk page, not an article page. The subject matter of the post is highly technical, and may not appear to some with an interest in food to be all that relevant, but I'm quite certain it is relevant to both food and health based upon the reading I have done in relation to bread, wheat, and starch topics, as well as health. On the amylase-Resistant Starch page, it didn't appear there are any citations with as early a date (I need to double check to be sure) as Berry's cite. PubMed has some listings for a "Berry CS" using the same generalized technical words, a signature of sorts, suggesting he is who he claims to be. While it is likely certain Berry is biased, as we all are, each in our own ways, he is clearly a scientist with some demonstrable expertise in the subject matter, and I worry that deleting all of his words is censorship of the worst kind. (I don't have time to fully flesh this out right now, but am strongly leaning towards reversing the deletion, even though I personally am biased against "pay for knowledge" constructs.) Gzuufy (talk) 18:34, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. It's a Talk page. I thought the main rules were to be civil, assume good faith, etc. The post seemed a little odd and random, but I was surprised to see it deleted. Boneyard90 (talk) 00:38, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Again, I deleted because the posting because the person who placed it here was advertising his own research and its corresponding paper, and, despite this being a talk page, placing links to your own material is improper. If you feel that it doesn't violate the guidelines and a consensus develops stating restoring the post is proper, I have no problem with that. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:55, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

...besides which, this isn't a forum or discussion page for general food issues. Pyrope 12:48, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

From this project's front page under "Goals", "2. Coordination of editing on food, drink, and restaurant related articles." It could be Berry was asking (albeit in a non-direct way) for help with flawed or incomplete historical citing on the resistant starch page. If so, such a request would seem appropriate here, particularly given that this project's banner is on that article's talk page. If resistant starch is, as you say, too general a topic for this forum, then should the WikiProject Food and Drink banner be removed from that page? Gzuufy (talk) 21:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

If there is a specific question relating to resistant starch then it should be brought up on the resistant starch page. If there is a wider question relating to the way that we deal with articles on the chemical components of food then you bring it here. That is by the by, in any case, as this was clearly not a question, comment or suggestion. The section was a didactic statement which ended with an invitation to look at a pay site. That's not discussion, that's spam. The removal was fully justified. Pyrope 15:22, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

The posting was an excerpt from his paper as far as I can tell, so I have a hard time believing it was a question in any form. It appears to me it was a solicitation to come look at his paper, and to pay him for the privilege of doing so. The site he linked to is a pay to view research site where individuals post their work and charge others to look at it. If he truly had a question it would have been easier to simply ask about what he wanted to know. If he were seeking someone to perform a peer review on his work this is not the proper forum to do so. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:54, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Tea time at different countries

Germany has an afternoon Kaffee or Coffee time that tends to correspond with American snacks and UK tea time. Typical snacks include coffee and cake and the snacks are most often sweet instead of savory. Other countries that like snacks and may have some sort of an informal tea time include Mexico and several countries in South America, and Hong Kong. Hong Kong’s tea time occurs anywhere between 2-6:00 PM

• Project-Class Food and drink pages
• NA-importance Food and drink pages
• WikiProject Food and drink articles