| Revision as of 16:01, 27 June 2013 edit84.26.108.111 (talk) →Emulator Notability← Previous edit | Revision as of 16:04, 27 June 2013 edit undo84.26.108.111 (talk) →Emulator NotabilityNext edit → | ||
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| ::You find the new sources 'really weak'? What are you looking for instead? Linking to oneself like Desmume does? Or bsnes? Or SNES9x? How about you go and delete all those pages while you're at it - you wouldn't have anything left by the time you finish.] (]) 15:02, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | ::You find the new sources 'really weak'? What are you looking for instead? Linking to oneself like Desmume does? Or bsnes? Or SNES9x? How about you go and delete all those pages while you're at it - you wouldn't have anything left by the time you finish.] (]) 15:02, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | ||
| :::You'll notice that the topic of this section is redirecting and deleting non-notable emulators. As WPedians often say in ], ]. It's quite possible that ] will be deleted or merged once someone takes a look at it. (E.g., see Project64's mention above.) Please also mind what WP says about ] and how we are expected to handle editors found to have one. As for sources, I'm looking for dedicated coverage from ] (]), not brief ''Guardian'' or Lifehacker mentions or CrackBerry.com install tutorials (though it's a start). It has to be enough reporting to sustain an article, however brief, and the current sources just say "I like it", at best. And any removed page can always be restored once supporting sources later appear. Also, we expect ] here, and I highly recommend apologizing for threatening to another editor once you've cooled off. <span style='font:1em"Avenir";background:#CCF;padding:2px 4px'>] ] ]</span> 16:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | :::You'll notice that the topic of this section is redirecting and deleting non-notable emulators. As WPedians often say in ], ]. It's quite possible that ] will be deleted or merged once someone takes a look at it. (E.g., see Project64's mention above.) Please also mind what WP says about ] and how we are expected to handle editors found to have one. As for sources, I'm looking for dedicated coverage from ] (]), not brief ''Guardian'' or Lifehacker mentions or CrackBerry.com install tutorials (though it's a start). It has to be enough reporting to sustain an article, however brief, and the current sources just say "I like it", at best. And any removed page can always be restored once supporting sources later appear. Also, we expect ] here, and I highly recommend apologizing for threatening to another editor once you've cooled off. <span style='font:1em"Avenir";background:#CCF;padding:2px 4px'>] ] ]</span> 16:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | ||
| ::::Yes, and I notice you have given 'deleting subject matter that facilitates copyright infringement' a clever euphemistic name such as 'removing non-notable things'. I only apologize BTW when I think it's called for. I don't care about your pathetic Misplaced Pages 'rules' or your pathetic 'song and dance' - go ahead and have every single emulator page removed for all I care - as well as removing a 'page' that isn't even part of the subject matter you're trying to *mass-delete*. It is just great sound logic and reasoning after all coming from Misplaced Pages tards like your own. "Assume good faith" my ass. Start doing something that is of use to this world rather than being a failed journalistic hack that didn't have the chops to land a job at the major newspapers and now has to resort to gutter trash side jobs like this.] (]) 16:04, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :You wouldn't have gotten such a reply if instead of being familiar with the 'rules' of this great and dandy Misplaced Pages place you would actually start becoming informed about the subject matter which you deem 'not notable enough'. First of all - RetroArch is not an emulator - if you don't understand that part then you know nothing about it. Learn what an API is, learn what a frontend is - learn that there are already a couple of game engine ports and a media player port and that engineers from every major company are sending me e-mails telling me how much they love the project. I'd wager that is quite 'notable' enough.] (]) 14:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | :You wouldn't have gotten such a reply if instead of being familiar with the 'rules' of this great and dandy Misplaced Pages place you would actually start becoming informed about the subject matter which you deem 'not notable enough'. First of all - RetroArch is not an emulator - if you don't understand that part then you know nothing about it. Learn what an API is, learn what a frontend is - learn that there are already a couple of game engine ports and a media player port and that engineers from every major company are sending me e-mails telling me how much they love the project. I'd wager that is quite 'notable' enough.] (]) 14:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | ||
| ::Its rather ironic that you're lecturing him on this, when you seem to be defining notability as "engineers giving you praise". Please read the ]. That's how Misplaced Pages defines it. ] ] 15:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | ::Its rather ironic that you're lecturing him on this, when you seem to be defining notability as "engineers giving you praise". Please read the ]. That's how Misplaced Pages defines it. ] ] 15:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC) | ||
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I've just orphaned Portal:Current events/Video gaming/In the news
I've just removed Portal:Current events/Video gaming/In the news from Portal:Video games because it's hopelessly out of date. I don't visit Portal:Video games, but it still gets over 250 hits per day which is probably more than most personal games blogs. If someone fancies themselves a bit of a newsie, like putting out headlines, and commits to it, go update it and un-orphan it. Having a picture of Peter Molyneux on Portal:Video games for over two years straight is shockingly embarrassing. - hahnchen 22:05, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
- To anyone thinking of doing this; it needs more than one person on it. Its not as easy as it looks. - X201 (talk) 15:55, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
- I'm tempted to start looking after the page again, and as X201 mentioned, it would be great if someone wanted to help me with it. Where was the page orphaned from? I'll readd it there once I've updated it. Samwalton9 (talk) 10:43, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Never mind, took a look and found the edit. Will start updating it now. Samwalton9 (talk) 10:51, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
What is a Development section supposed to be?
Sorry if the answer is obvious somewhere I haven't looked.
But are these sections about the game's development or the marketing campaign (or both)? Are WWE '13 or NBA 2K12, for instance, proper, mentioning announcements (with dates), promotion and all that about cover art? Doesn't seem to have anything to do with how the games were built, which "development" suggests to me. Something like BioShock or Elder Scrolls: Oblivion's are more what I'd imagine.
Any clarification is appreciated. InedibleHulk (talk) 07:41, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
- Basically the production of the game.Lucia Black (talk) 08:06, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- Development should cover the actual making (programming, motion capture, sound design, etc) of the game. A Marketing and release section can cover things like launch announcements, press releases, promotions, cover designs, etc. - X201 (talk) 08:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- Pretty much. Sometimes Marketing/release type stuff is just merged into Dev sections if there isn't a whole lot to be said, or if no one's bothered to document much of it. (I tend to focus on more obscure JRPG's and 90's video games, 2 areas where there's not always a ton of this sort of information available. In those cases, I usually have the 2 merged. I imagine this is common, as I see it across many articles.) Sergecross73 msg me 12:52, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- Yep, I was concentrating on Hulk's examples, which would be better off having their Development sections renamed as Marketing because that's all they contain. - X201 (talk) 13:07, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, I fully agree. I was going to say that myself too, but forgot to - Thanks. Sergecross73 msg me 13:46, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- Yep, I was concentrating on Hulk's examples, which would be better off having their Development sections renamed as Marketing because that's all they contain. - X201 (talk) 13:07, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- Pretty much. Sometimes Marketing/release type stuff is just merged into Dev sections if there isn't a whole lot to be said, or if no one's bothered to document much of it. (I tend to focus on more obscure JRPG's and 90's video games, 2 areas where there's not always a ton of this sort of information available. In those cases, I usually have the 2 merged. I imagine this is common, as I see it across many articles.) Sergecross73 msg me 12:52, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for clearing that up, guys. That's as I figured it should be, but not as it is in quite a few articles. I suppose video games attract all kinds, not just those aware of the Wikiproject MoS (I hadn't seen it in the sidebar myself when I asked, I looked across the top). I'll fix those two later, if nobody beats me to it. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:57, June 18, 2013 (UTC)
Planetarium Games
I was working through some categories and came across Category:Planetarium Football Star which is an article about a football management game that has been miscreated as a category. Before moving it to article space, there needs to be a decision about whether it's notable or not - and I'm not the person to make that call! I'm guessing probably not, although they claim over 100k users. There's a related article at Planetarium Manager with similar notability concerns - seems to have been created by User:Pgames as a user page and then moved by User:Christian Hubbs to article space. Given that they are made by Planetarium Games this looks like a WP:CORPNAME doing WP:COI WP:ADVERTising - could someone take a look who knows more about video games than me? TIA. Le Deluge (talk) 14:57, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
- The Manager article was previously deleted in 2006. And Football Star was deleted in 2009. - X201 (talk) 15:50, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
God of War II FAC
If anyone has some time, God of War II is at FAC. --JDC808 ♫ 17:52, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
Niemti 3.0
Guys, I'm really starting to lose my cool with that uncivil rude person. This is annoying enough, but when you actively start with disruptive editing, I'm done. Overlinking to motion capture twice, unlinking to video game in the lead, undoing piped links ]... And the fact that he only rarely writes down anything in the edit summary is also really getting on my nerve. Is there anything we can do about him and his attitude? --Soetermans. T / C 12:47, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- He gets brought to ANI frequently, but usually every time, there's minimal consensus, as it's always split between the people who work with him, and find him difficult, and people who haven't, and think everyone's being mean to him, not giving him a chance, or think his contributions outweigh his terrible attitude. Its up to you if you want to spearhead something like this; I'd help support people in it, I think his condescending attitude is terrible and detrimental to the project, however, I won't lead the effort, these discussions always lead to so much wasted time in these inane arguments with him. There's endless dramatics, long winded rants, and every single person on the project is to blame except for him. Sergecross73 msg me 13:33, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- If editors have a major problem, RFC/U is the only first stop that will get some type of traction towards anything remotely enforceable. Niemti doesn't have to participate, but it is understood that failing to participate in an RFC/U can be detrimental to the situation later. That said, I'm looking at the linked edit and while I don't agree with all the changes, they are neither "wrong". It's more OWNership than being disruptive and that's really really hard to bring any type of enforcement on. --MASEM (t) 13:38, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- We're just coming out of a fruitless RFC/U. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 13:39, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) They've attempted to do an RFC/U on him before, and he refused to participate, and nothing really came from it. That would be even more of a waste of time than going to ANI... Sergecross73 msg me 13:40, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, well, at least that step of the DR process is done, but again, what the above link is showing is far from anything that ANI would look at even with an RFC/U. Basically, you're asking for a court martial for a jaywalker (as there's elements of what he's accused of that everyone else does sometimes, like lacking edit summaries.) And even the civility level is far from an enforcable problem. --MASEM (t) 13:59, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not a fan of his, but this kind of thing has come up over four times to my knowledge, with no results except bringing in more bad feeling on both sides. This is getting...sickening. --ProtoDrake (talk) 14:25, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- Civility is enforceable- I've never rescinded my standing promise to block him for ever-increasing amounts of time for uncivil behavior. Thing is, he actually toned it way down after the first block- not that he gained any more respect for other editors or rules, but he hasn't gone off on invective-riddled tirades since. I check his contributions on occasion, but do let me know if he starts crossing the line on that. --PresN 16:08, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the support guys. Masem, you're right, this alone is no reason to take action. The other day he told me "learn to read" and now this. I guess I was just venting a bit. For now I'll just continue editing, and see if he gets nasty once more. At least then I know what to do. --Soetermans. T / C 16:13, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- It's easy to get worked up, I've been there with other editors. The easiest way to respond - short of not responding at all - is likely to drop a polite message on his talk page asking him to be careful of his word choices but offering to compromise on the issue. He is a benefit in some areas, so we don't want to lose that. I'm not giving him a free pass, just that we're not at a point that I can see any uninvolved admin saying action is needed. --MASEM (t) 16:18, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- I guess you're right. I think that is especially frustrating, considering the time and effort he spends on Misplaced Pages. And thanks for your edits, ProtoDrake, I just saw TLoU again. Let's see if he listens to you. Niemti doesn't think video game should be linked. I just redid a couple of edits, I wonder how long they'll stay. --Soetermans. T / C 16:23, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- It's easy to get worked up, I've been there with other editors. The easiest way to respond - short of not responding at all - is likely to drop a polite message on his talk page asking him to be careful of his word choices but offering to compromise on the issue. He is a benefit in some areas, so we don't want to lose that. I'm not giving him a free pass, just that we're not at a point that I can see any uninvolved admin saying action is needed. --MASEM (t) 16:18, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for the support guys. Masem, you're right, this alone is no reason to take action. The other day he told me "learn to read" and now this. I guess I was just venting a bit. For now I'll just continue editing, and see if he gets nasty once more. At least then I know what to do. --Soetermans. T / C 16:13, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
- Okay, well, at least that step of the DR process is done, but again, what the above link is showing is far from anything that ANI would look at even with an RFC/U. Basically, you're asking for a court martial for a jaywalker (as there's elements of what he's accused of that everyone else does sometimes, like lacking edit summaries.) And even the civility level is far from an enforcable problem. --MASEM (t) 13:59, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Dead link
(Sorry for broken English) Hello! I found the NA official page of Dragon Quest IX was redirected to Nintendo.com. However, some articles used a subpage of this site (dqnine
PlayStation 2 at FPC
There is an image of the PlayStation 2 up for Featured Picture status. If you can please Support or Oppose its candidacy here. GamerPro64 17:24, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Article requests consensus requested
Over at the requests talk page user Czar and I have agreed the lead paragraph needs a reword. We're looking for a consensus on the new lead and would like to hear any other opinions on it. Samwalton9 (talk) 19:36, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Talk:Zack Fair#Jesus Christ Denton
There is an ongoing discussion with User:Niemti in Talk:Zack Fair#Jesus Christ Denton regarding the addition of an image without content about it. The user appears to be quite informal just by reading the section title so more comments would calm down the situation.Tintor2 (talk) 00:41, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
Emulator Notability
There's some emulators that clearly have enough notability to have pages, many that clearly don't, and a lot in the middle. What should be done? I fear that if you strictly apply the 3rd party notability standard, then a lot of pages for emulators would simply be turned into redirects.
Also, what would classify as a reliable third party source to give notability to emulators? Most of them might not get much more press than a few blog posts, or an article on an emulation news site. They will largely be ignored by the main stream media. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 01:08, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- We have List of emulators which can be verified by third-parties but may not have their own page, so we can document them but just not give them a full page. The sources at WP:VG/S are those that, at minimum, should be used for third-party sources. If all we have are blog posts, they aren't considered meeting even the third-party standard. --MASEM (t) 01:23, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Category:Video_game_platform_emulators has a lot of them. Project64 ended its AFD with a redirect, despite being a major thing with a lot of content in its article. Meanwhile TR64 still has its article which is only three sentences long, two of which tell you why it isn't any good and not worth bothering with. Dream Focus 01:24, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- FYI, I've nominated TR64 for deletion based on those grounds. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 03:10, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- And just as a note: if there are third-party sources but not enough for notability, don't delete the article - add the line to List of emulators and redirect the article to the list, as we can still search on the term. --MASEM (t) 03:20, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- FYI, I've nominated TR64 for deletion based on those grounds. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 03:10, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- I'm a big fan of emulation and find these to be somewhat informative, personally, but I'll agree I was very surprised when I saw the plethora of articles on what appears to be non-notable emulators. Most can probably be merged into something like a "list of emulators"; I can only think of very few notable exceptions (Dolphin, VBA & NO$GBA, maybe SNES9x & zSNES, Project64, definitely MAME) for which significant coverage might be found in reliable sources. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 03:54, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
So far I've made the pages for Mednafen and RetroArch redirect to the List of video game emulators. A developer for Retroarch left a very strongly worded reply on my talk page, and then reverted it. Now, there is a few sources for that. There is a link from the Guardian which recommends Retroarch. Guardian is a reliable source that can establish notability. Lifehacker I think is a blog thing, I'm not really sure if it counts. What do you guys think? I think it's a borderline case. If there were a few more sources, I say it should stay for sure. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 06:24, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- That reply was more than unwarranted, you acting in good faith. Frankly, I'm still amazed users would go to such incivility while not even being familiar with our guidelines. The page wasn't deleted, and while there are sources enough to pass it over GNG, it takes one knowledgeable in the field to come up with those. I suggest searches like our RS search in the future though. — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 10:10, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- What a nasty response to receive. Please don't be discouraged by their attempts to bully you. Also FWIW, I find the new sources added to the article really weak, and the emulator doesn't show any non-comment hits in the custom WPVG RS search. czar · · 14:26, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- You find the new sources 'really weak'? What are you looking for instead? Linking to oneself like Desmume does? Or bsnes? Or SNES9x? How about you go and delete all those pages while you're at it - you wouldn't have anything left by the time you finish.84.26.108.111 (talk) 15:02, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- You'll notice that the topic of this section is redirecting and deleting non-notable emulators. As WPedians often say in Articles for Deletion, other stuff exists. It's quite possible that DeSmuME will be deleted or merged once someone takes a look at it. (E.g., see Project64's mention above.) Please also mind what WP says about conflicts of interest and how we are expected to handle editors found to have one. As for sources, I'm looking for dedicated coverage from reliable sources (WP:42), not brief Guardian or Lifehacker mentions or CrackBerry.com install tutorials (though it's a start). It has to be enough reporting to sustain an article, however brief, and the current sources just say "I like it", at best. And any removed page can always be restored once supporting sources later appear. Also, we expect civility here, and I highly recommend apologizing for threatening to "come after" another editor once you've cooled off. czar · · 16:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, and I notice you have given 'deleting subject matter that facilitates copyright infringement' a clever euphemistic name such as 'removing non-notable things'. I only apologize BTW when I think it's called for. I don't care about your pathetic Misplaced Pages 'rules' or your pathetic 'song and dance' - go ahead and have every single emulator page removed for all I care - as well as removing a 'page' that isn't even part of the subject matter you're trying to *mass-delete*. It is just great sound logic and reasoning after all coming from Misplaced Pages tards like your own. "Assume good faith" my ass. Start doing something that is of use to this world rather than being a failed journalistic hack that didn't have the chops to land a job at the major newspapers and now has to resort to gutter trash side jobs like this.84.26.108.111 (talk) 16:04, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- You'll notice that the topic of this section is redirecting and deleting non-notable emulators. As WPedians often say in Articles for Deletion, other stuff exists. It's quite possible that DeSmuME will be deleted or merged once someone takes a look at it. (E.g., see Project64's mention above.) Please also mind what WP says about conflicts of interest and how we are expected to handle editors found to have one. As for sources, I'm looking for dedicated coverage from reliable sources (WP:42), not brief Guardian or Lifehacker mentions or CrackBerry.com install tutorials (though it's a start). It has to be enough reporting to sustain an article, however brief, and the current sources just say "I like it", at best. And any removed page can always be restored once supporting sources later appear. Also, we expect civility here, and I highly recommend apologizing for threatening to "come after" another editor once you've cooled off. czar · · 16:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- You find the new sources 'really weak'? What are you looking for instead? Linking to oneself like Desmume does? Or bsnes? Or SNES9x? How about you go and delete all those pages while you're at it - you wouldn't have anything left by the time you finish.84.26.108.111 (talk) 15:02, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- You wouldn't have gotten such a reply if instead of being familiar with the 'rules' of this great and dandy Misplaced Pages place you would actually start becoming informed about the subject matter which you deem 'not notable enough'. First of all - RetroArch is not an emulator - if you don't understand that part then you know nothing about it. Learn what an API is, learn what a frontend is - learn that there are already a couple of game engine ports and a media player port and that engineers from every major company are sending me e-mails telling me how much they love the project. I'd wager that is quite 'notable' enough.84.26.108.111 (talk) 14:59, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Its rather ironic that you're lecturing him on this, when you seem to be defining notability as "engineers giving you praise". Please read the WP:GNG. That's how Misplaced Pages defines it. Sergecross73 msg me 15:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- I don't give a rat's ass about these political dickwaving contests. Go ahead and launch your little crusade and have it deleted for all I care. Do continue 'editing' and 'removing' subject matter you know jack all about. Really makes your 'encyclopedia' seem credible and all that. BTW - you really do have to explain to me how 'The Guardian' qualifies as 'engineers giving you praise'. Seems to me you don't know what kind of nonsense you can think of in your effort to get this page removed.84.26.108.111 (talk) 16:01, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Its rather ironic that you're lecturing him on this, when you seem to be defining notability as "engineers giving you praise". Please read the WP:GNG. That's how Misplaced Pages defines it. Sergecross73 msg me 15:05, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- That talk page note seems to indicate a pretty clear COI for that IP editor.... -- ferret (talk) 14:33, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- How so? I am just trying to educate you people what our project is and what it is NOT - it is NOT a 'videogame emulator' - it is far more than that and that is why it has gained the popularity it has. If you don't understand the part about it not being an 'emulator', then frankly you don't have the qualifications to be even editing any pages.84.26.108.111 (talk) 15:02, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Au contraire, 84.26, you should read about all the things Misplaced Pages is not. Among other things, Misplaced Pages is not an advertising platform. And as for your project: If it's not an emulator, then why is it full of emulator cores? Sounds an awful lot like a multi-platform system emulator to me. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 15:22, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Oh, I see. By that same rationale, if the Internet is not a 'porn platform' then why is it full of porn, right?84.26.108.111 (talk) 15:57, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Au contraire, 84.26, you should read about all the things Misplaced Pages is not. Among other things, Misplaced Pages is not an advertising platform. And as for your project: If it's not an emulator, then why is it full of emulator cores? Sounds an awful lot like a multi-platform system emulator to me. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 15:22, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, the editor has very directly identified himself as lead developer of the article subject... Sergecross73 msg me 15:19, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- How so? I am just trying to educate you people what our project is and what it is NOT - it is NOT a 'videogame emulator' - it is far more than that and that is why it has gained the popularity it has. If you don't understand the part about it not being an 'emulator', then frankly you don't have the qualifications to be even editing any pages.84.26.108.111 (talk) 15:02, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Masem, don't think emulators apply for any special GNG treatment. They should have reliable independent sources and be the subject of several, such as WP:VG/RS. — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 10:10, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- I do agree, however I think if you applied those standards to emulators, something like 75% of them would fail. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 12:06, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
- Yea, we should be treating emulators like we would with any other video game. And in that sense, most of them would not be notable- we can say they exist, but we have no reception, development (sourced to third-parties), etc. I know a lot of these are pet projects, but that's exactly the reason that we shouldn't have articles on them but fairly list those that at least have a tiny bit of coverage on a table. --MASEM (t) 15:03, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
In The News
As I've mentioned in the discussion above, the In the news section of the Video Games Portal is now up to date, has been re-added to the portal main page, and I will be attempting to keep it current. If anyone else can give me a hand in monitoring and updating it, that would be great. Samwalton9 (talk) 11:27, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
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