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This article was nominated for deletion on 14 June 2012. The result of the discussion was keep.

You need to include criticisms

Please include criticisms of Anita's behavior and arguments. The blanket acceptance of anything someone says under the umbrella of feminism is compromising the already tarnished reputation of wikipedia's accuracy and legitimacy.

Honey Badger radio criticism of Anita's arguments — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swaghard (talk • contribs) 22:21, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

YouTube is not considered a reliable source. Please see, Misplaced Pages reliable source examples. Regards, AnupMehra 22:24, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

And even beyond just Youtube's general unreliability, Swaghard, Misplaced Pages isn't in the business of picking any old internet grumblings and publishing them as legitimate criticisms. That's why we typically don't include angry racist comments from HuffPost commenters, fan responses to movies (unless the response is significant enough to gain the attention of the media), or other non-notable content. If you want criticism of the subject to be presented, you need to find criticism from people who are qualified to issue the criticism, or criticism that becomes notable enough to be reported by a reliable source. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:36, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

What exactly "qualifies" Anita to discuss any of this? I fail to see how feminist frequency (a youtube channel and where these videos are published) is taken into account, yet criticisms published on the same site are ignored. Thunderf00t for example has a huge following and his video responses get huge positive ratings. I could go on and on listing if you'd like. This page on Misplaced Pages currently has ZERO criticisms but just a cursory search on the internet reports a torrent of disagreement. For you to leave it off, assumes there is none. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.248.224 (talk) 19:06, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Please note, 92, that we only reference Anita's own Youtube account twice, and both cases are to quote her video titles. For the most part, we don't reference Youtube videos from Anita or individuals like Thunderf00t because they are primary sources, and we prefer reliable, secondary sources for content in an article. Novusuna 19:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm being dense here but can you explain the largest section on Anita's page: "Tropes vs Women in Video Games"? This entire video series is published primarily on YouTube? Why then is this seen as somehow as different to "any old internet grumblings"? I don't see how Anita is any more "qualified" to create this video than those that offer fair criticism on the same internet site. I'd be happy to collate the views and positive rating of the top ten rebuttals against the 'Tropes vs Women' series. Trying to be fair here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.248.224 (talk) 19:25, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

The difference is that the section about her video series does not rely on her videos as a source. Rather, the information in the article comes from a variety of independent, secondary sources. Simply collating the opinions expressed in rebuttals on YouTube would be original research, which is not permitted. Novusuna 19:31, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/index.php/2013/03/10/a-rebuttal-to-anita-sarkeesians-tropes-vs-women-episode-1-damsels-in-distress/ Would this be seen as an independent, secondary source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.248.224 (talk) 20:01, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Independent? Yes. Secondary? Definitely Not. Reliable? Dubious at best. If there are criticisms that are worth examining, they'd be published by groups like The Escapist, IGN, Kotaku, etcetera (The first of this group I know has articles about her) or prominent gaming persons, such as Shigeru Miyamoto or John Carmack. Since you seem to be noting a bunch of complete unknowns (comparatively), they are easy to dismiss. Zero Serenity (talk) 20:12, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

"a bunch of complete unknowns" - so this deems a criticism easy to dismiss? No matter how well it might be written or well argued, being an "unknown" means you're "easy to dismiss". I don't buy it personally but I'm fighting a losing battle here. I come from a scientific background where the validity of an argument stands on it's own merits. Being 'known' has no relevance. I don't understand this system you guys use. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.248.224 (talk) 20:49, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Er...if you really do come from a scientific background then you would know about peer-reviewed journals. These so-called criticisms are "easy to dismissed" because they haven't gone through the process. You should know that. It's the same reason that quackery is "easy to dismiss". Find a reliable source that contains criticism (peer-reviewed journal or anything similar), and those will be cited here. DonQuixote (talk) 20:59, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

If you honestly don't understand our system, then try this on for size:

• Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style
• Misplaced Pages:No original research
• Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources

These contain enough information for you to understand how Misplaced Pages is done. Zero Serenity (talk) 21:02, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

A colleague of mine authored a clinical audit in the BMJ last year and I was the third name due to helping collect patient data. By your colleagues own definition, I'm an "unknown". Yet I've been published in a peer-reviewed journal. My point was to illustrate that in science an "unknown" is listened to if the point stands on it's own merits. It wasn't brought up to illustrate peer-reviewing. I could go on that NONE of Anita's work is peer-reviewed at all but being "somebody" according to Misplaced Pages means your voice is valid and should be heard.92.40.248.224 (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Look, it's been explained to you multiple times that Misplaced Pages articles rely on reliable, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy regarding that subject. We're not in a position to determine whether some random person's views in a blog or on YouTube are "valid" or "well argued", and we're not going to change or ignore the usual practice in this one case.--Cúchullain /c 21:26, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

No need to get tetchy, I'm simply trying to beat out how your system works in my head. Don't kid yourselves, "Misplaced Pages articles rely on reliable, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy regarding that subject." - this is terribly subjective and open to bias from yourselves. You'd be intellectually dishonest if you disagreed with that. I not expecting, nor expected, you to change your system. I only wanted to get a better feel of how you came to your conclusions on what is deemed 'reliable', 'accurate', etc. Interesting to say the least - suffice to say I won't be donating again. Bye.92.40.248.224 (talk) 21:40, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Seriously, just like any other area of academia, all that stuff should be published in a reliable source (such as a journal) before being cited in textbooks and encyclopaedias. Journals and such can accept unknowns because they vet it through such things as peer review. Textbooks and encyclopaedias rely on journals and such doing that, and only after that's done can textbooks and encyclopaedias cite them. This is basic stuff that you should have learned in undergrad. DonQuixote (talk) 22:11, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Sorry if it sounds blunt, but I don't know how many times you can pose the same question and be surprised to get the same answer.--Cúchullain /c 22:13, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Don't be. Sometimes things need to be repeated to drill home the point. Zero Serenity (talk) 22:16, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

DonQuixote, missing the point for a second time. Your colleague Zero S. stated that if the likes of "John Carmack" or "Shigeru Miyamoto" gave their opinion on the 'Tropes Vs Women' videos then that would qualify as 'accurate' and 'reliable' in the world of Misplaced Pages. Fortunately the same cannot be said in science. If the likes of Dr. Mark Porter stated that the MMR vaccine caused autism as an opinion (based on nothing other than his being 'known'), then nobody in the scientific community would take it as 'accurate' or 'reliable'. It would require peer-reviewed evidence. So, tell me DonQuixote, is Misplaced Pages less reliable or was your colleague wrong?92.40.248.245 (talk) 23:33, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Who's missing the point? If Brian Cox gave his opinion on the recent discovery of laboratory magnetic monopoles, then his opinion might be worth quoting. If he published a peer-reviewed article, then it would definitely be worth citing. Note the difference. Seriously, this is basic undergrad stuff. DonQuixote (talk) 23:40, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Working out what is reliable is a really difficult problem. :) To a large extent, it depends on what the source is being used for. In medical articles, the standards for sourcing are very high (see WP:MEDRS), and generally peer reviewed articles in respected journals are required. But if Misplaced Pages required the same standards for all articles, the project would be very limited in its coverage. Thus for information which is less critical or controversial, content that has undergone independent editorial review becomes acceptable. In some cases, policy lets us use self published sources, but in those cases the information needs to be uncontroversial and the author needs to be an expert in the topic.

Because Misplaced Pages relies on contributions by anonymous authors, it needs to have a strict policy on sourcing, as we can't know if the contributor has expertise in the topic or not (and there have been a few high profile cases where the contributors have claimed expertise that later proved to be false).

In regard to criticism, what we've been hoping for is criticism that has been published in a source that has good editorial review, and where the author and the editorial process has expertise in the subject. I have my ideas as to why such criticism isn't available for Sarkeesian, but perhaps it will emerge in the future. - Bilby (talk) 00:09, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the opinions of Miyamoto and Carmack wouldn't necessarily be usable here - they're noteworthy for making games, not for media criticism. Especially if they just put it up on their personal blog or whatever. If they had their opinions published in a reliable source we could possibly talk about it, but it's a moot point, since no one is trying to cite them here. 92.40.248.245, if you have some specific sources you'd like vetted or specific changes you want considered, bring them up, but otherwise this discussion isn't going anywhere.--Cúchullain /c 00:31, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

I dare you all to look through this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ku4uCB9pE5U#t=41 .

Here's editors who call only reliable sources and then people who demand criticism. Now, to be duped you can be even very high intelligent person, but you are duped. The more intelligent you are the more you explain to yourself that the dupe you fell for was true. It's a basic function of our brain called cognitive dissonance. Now, here we have people who call out criticism and then we have editors calling for reliable sources. The big thing is who is duped? Editors or the "retractors" who call for criticism. If it is the latter then this article is fine and we have a solution to all gaming explained to us by a one voice, Anita Sarkeesian. If it is the first, then we have an article that is biased and the editors keeping it up white knight any criticism and ignore it because their cognitive dissonance says so.

Also I like to remind that many of the "reliable sources" used in this article are from "feminist" editors. As per definition they should be for gender equality, but at least one of the sources have made a public appearance to promote female preference.

Anyway, criticism for a critic to be non exist is absurd. Was it a well made video or blog it should account for criticism as per what BLP subject does is blog and videos. We all know she hasn't put up any study for a peer review and because that there should not be such a scrutiny toward her criticism. But hey blame the patriarchy, it's a proper escape-goat.Nosepea68 (talk) 06:12, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

By the use of the term "white knight" and your previous editing behaviour, I think we can quite categorically state that the "cognitive dissonance" is not on "our side". We're ot asking for much - just a single reputable newspaper or relevant source of note - of which there are thousands of qualifying brands - to make valid criticism. What wont work is blogs about personal opinions of Anita, her Kickstarter or subsequent videos. They just aren't notable. By the same token we exclude these same types of things when reflecting other aspects of the Sarkeesian (and rest of wikipedia) articles.

What you don't seem to understand is that this policy is applied across Misplaced Pages to all biographies. All the editors here contribute to multiple articles. There is no "white knight", at the lamest you could call it "wiki knight" in reference to our defence of wiki's tenets. Koncorde (talk) 11:32, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

@Nosepea68: Here's a video that you should watch (from 1:05:05 to 1:06:45). It's not a direct one-to-one analogy, but the main point is at . An encyclopaedia is on the same level as textbooks. Find a reliable source and cite it, especially if you think the current ones are too "feminist"...that is, go do the work and stop making soapbox speeches. DonQuixote (talk) 13:31, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Cheers matey! That video really nails it. "What we expect people to do is to do _real_ _research_ to back up these scientific claims, to submit them to peer review and to engage into give and take of scientific argument to win a scientific consensus and eventually if the evidence is on the side of these ideas no matter how goofy they sound at first and no matter how much scientific community opposes them at first they will eventually find their way into classroom and textbook." The thing here is that all the research material is behind a paywall, subject of the BLP ignores all her criticism playing the Victim-Mastercard and even claims some of her "detractors" liars on the basis they are conspiracy theorists. So, until the research material becomes public, the subject of the BLP should be taken as a specialist and her word to be trusted. I doubt the material will ever surface, so she could be peer reviewed. Nosepea68 (talk) 03:10, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

You've been told again, and again, and again, to knock it off with these disparaging rants. Here it is again: stop making comments that aren't connected to specific article improvements, and especially stop making baseless, pointless accusations about living people.--Cúchullain /c 05:09, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

She can sue me, any day. One word from her to accuse me for any accusation, I will face her in a court of law.Nosepea68 (talk) 04:23, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

I think you're ignoring the fact that the community doesn't care to hear your disparaging rants or your macho bravado. Talk pages are for discussions about how to improve the article not for ranting and challenging people who don't know you exist. Stay on topic. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:34, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

I care only about what's said/done with EVIDENCE. There's TONS OF MATERIAL READY about media making the mind. ALL STATING THERE IS NO CAUSALITY. In the scientific community all the knowledge is built on the shoulders of the predecessors. To that point I must give you a focus, this is a POLITICAL shyte, not scientific. And that is the main reason I disgagree with. Nosepea68 (talk) 08:07, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Continuing to go off on tangents that have nothing to do with article improvements, despite repeated warnings, is disruptive. If you won't stop you'll find yourself blocked or banned from editing.--Cúchullain /c 19:01, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

I just wanted to say I would really love, appreciate, and prefer if someone would at least put shes subject to constant criticisms or something, because like someone said before, this page looks like its doing nothing but praising her when she would take scenes from video games out of context to support her point, pretty much stole that $140,000 (atleast mention this for the love of god, it doesnt take that much to make 3 videos and is been i think 3 years now) had no evidence to back anything she said up, the games she would review would also be from a variety of cultures (jap and us games are very different in storyline), made people think sexual harassment exists in video games (only if your bad at the game, if your not you'll get the opposite) and failed to mention a single female main character that is just a normal girl (doesnt have provocative clothing and an oversized chest) These are all facts, I don't see why they would need a source to begin with its like asking us to source where we got the fact strawberries are red. Sorry if this got a little ranty she's just a horrible person...66.58.189.223 (talk) 16:26, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Don't agree with anything you just said. Out of context? Not from what I can see. Stole Money? The delay question is brought up then destroyed here. Your sense of time is off since it took one year to make four videos. Yes, sexual harassment exists in video games. While the rest of your nonsense can be dismissed as "The series isn't done yet." While I rebut everything you just said, I'm more pissed off at you using racial slurs to make a point. Zero Serenity (talk) 16:47, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

what? i didnt use any racial slurs, if you mean ranty i meant rant-like, didnt even know thats a racial slur, i didnt say everything was out of context but i play quite a bit of video gamess and i can tell you that she did, and im talking about online games, people dont care as logn as you can play the game well, unless your talking about the chat part of a game then yes your right, unless im reading your link wrong it doesnt say where all the money went. and do you really think video game developers are sitting around thinking how they can sexually harrass women in their games?66.58.189.223 (talk) 18:38, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

OED: As n. and adj. the word Jap has strong derogatory connotations and is now falling into disuse.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 18:39, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

oh i was just using it short for japanese.. ive never heard that word used in a racial way... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.58.189.223 (talk) 18:41, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I didn't think you were, just clarifying for you what Zero Serenity might have been talking about.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 18:49, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Do you have any RS to actually improve this article? If so, bring them. I'm not even sure whether to even comment on the rest of your ranting. Please, if you have anything substantial to contribute, do so. --SK (talk) 19:53, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

For reference, the article, and now the fork, do note that after the influx of donations caused Sarkeesian to delay production, that "The delay led some critics to question how she was using the money," cited to these sources: It then cites two writers who bring up that point and determine that the production value has increased (this and the Eordogh piece). This source, also discussed previously, mentions it and dismisses it out of hand. Since the videos started being released, few real sources have bothered to mention it even to dismiss it, as it's become laughable on its face. Anyone can see that the new videos are substantially longer and have better production quality than the old ones. The only ones still hanging on to this point are the trolls who'll blindy accept anything negative about Sarkeesian.--Cúchullain /c 21:42, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

The production quality rise is highly subjective. If I could write a RS article about it, I'd say it was not risen by much. Nosepea68 (talk) 03:20, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Speak of the devil.--Cúchullain /c 05:09, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I have never denied or claimed I am impartial in this. I see the sources you call RS not really doing their fact check part and the subject of the BLP being dishonest. Really, I am a liberal humanist. Also I'm a sceptic, but I do not deny or belittle scientific consensus of the facts.Nosepea68 (talk) 04:23, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Once again, your personal opinions are irrelevant.--Cúchullain /c 19:01, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

There seems to be a heavy element of people trying to use simply what they can get. While valid criticism is warranted on most Misplaced Pages articles for the sake of neutrality, criticism for the sake of criticism regardless of reliability is not useful at all, more so if the subject itself is controversial to some, so do try and have good faith in edits. However, for the sake of disucssion for those who are inquiring into the need for criticism, the only immediate article I have located is a piece by an editorials and reviews director at Destructoid here, a valid widely used source of video game journalism and criticism. Of course I would also have to ask how said piece would be included (if it was). Stabby Joe (talk) 14:01, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Stabby Joe. That Destructoid piece has been discussed repeatedly over the last year and a half, for example here, here, here, here, and here for starters. The consensus has been that it's not a reliable source for this topic. As one writer's unedited blog entry it's a self-published source and not usable in a BLP. In general Destructoid is characterized as only "situationally" reliable for video game topics by WP:VG/RS, so not everything that appears there is assumed to be reliable for video games, let alone media criticism.--Cúchullain /c 16:20, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

The another thing _only_ standing is the absence of criticism of her work.Nosepea68 (talk) 03:20, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Haha, so I see. Well then, if such criticism is warranted, all I can really say is keep searching. Let's just hope it can remain as civil so far. Stabby Joe (talk) 00:05, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Bud, really? I can have a discussion about this subject, if you want to. Even with sound recording. Nosepea68 (talk) 08:13, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

The Destructoid piece is not going in the article. I'm sure many editors will be happy to vet other potential sources, but that one is out.--Cúchullain /c 19:01, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. I would happily add a critical source under the wiki criteria. Contrary to what some on the internet may feel given her controversial image, this article is not biased in her favor absolute. Stabby Joe (talk) 21:29, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Master thesis

Article for Deletion, whole article.

Hey all,

we are missing some major information about Anita Sarkeesian as per her 'whole life'. Date of birth for an example. Please link any other BLP or any other biography that has a subject and life built up without even a birth date.

Also the stuff she is built on is saying nothing. Any video she makes, any stuff she breaks all come down she ignores all the criticism, no matter how valid.

Also she is one behind a paywall. All her "fame" is just one single event w/o any reviww.*

So okey, remove the whole article,! Nosepea68 (talk) 14:37, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

As much I hate to say, she is one event famous. Misplaced Pages has rules on that too. Single/one occasion is not enough to hold whole article. She is famous because she made herself a victim. And there is NOTHING for her LB outside her videos. And Cuchlululllleeloo keeps calling me4 spa. A thing I do not expect from an admin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nosepea68 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Please stop. You proposed this before (see talk page archives) and consensus was against you. DonQuixote (talk) 16:01, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

@Nosepea: perhaps you should propose these biographies for deletion as well: Category:Year of birth missing (living people). BTW: there are currently 49,892 articles categorized as such. Jim1138 (talk) 16:26, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't know if it's prudent to suggest such a thing to a user with the moniker "nosepea," but do as you will, of course.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 16:29, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Hey, let's delete Jesus! Your delete rationales are becoming more and more ridiculous, Nosepea68. --NeilN 15:39, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

For the interested, the article has been been up for AfD and RM before and it's been handily rejected. Sarkeesian easily passes the notability threshold for biographies, as anyone can see. Please stop wasting the community's time with these pointless and disruptive suggestions.--Cúchullain /c 19:01, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Ambassador Award 2014

She got 2014 Game Developers Choice Awards honour her with Ambassador Award 2014. Not sure these are RS but anyway here goes. http://www.joystiq.com/2014/02/11/game-developers-choice-awards-honor-anita-sarkeesian-riot-found/ , http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/11/5401754/gdc-choice-awards-2014-feminist-frequency-league-of-legends , http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/2014-game-developers-choice-awards-honoring-feminist-frequency-creator-anita-sarkeesian-with-ambassador-award-riot-games-brandon-beck-and-marc-merrill-with-pioneer-award-244904611.html . So maybe add a section named Awards or slip it in somewhere else in BLP? Perhaps add it in the fork too. Nosepea68 (talk) 03:38, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Already added under Feminist Frequency. Some other placement may be better, maybe it will become clearer as the page is cleaned up.--Cúchullain /c 04:04, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

I'd put it in the top part as she got it as a person who created Feminist Frequency. Nosepea68 (talk) 07:14, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Fan-art commercial "Fair Use"

I just found out that there's a fan-art picture used in the TvWiVG Kictstarter promotional video without artist's permission and she's never been told it's been used for promoting this video series funding.

http://cowkitty.net/post/78581402103/how-do-i-deal-with-my-artwork-being-stolen

http://cowkitty.net/post/78808973663/you-stole-my-artwork-an-open-letter-to-anita

Original picture http://atomicginger.blogspot.com/2009/05/princess-daphne.html

The artist in question is asking from Sarkeesian in an open letter if Sarkeesian has legitimately licensed the picture or does she have a 501(c)3 status (non-profit) as she claims in the interviews she's given. The main problem Tammy sees is she's not asked for permission, credited or told about the use.

Further note: The picture https://en.wikipedia.org/File:Tropes_vs_woman.jpg might not be usable for wikipedia without permission from cowkitty. http://cowkitty.net/me

Artist herself perhaps a reliable source? Nosepea68 (talk) 08:25, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

As you've been told many, many times before (and as DonQuixote already told you at Talk:Tropes vs. Women in Video Games) we don't include material that doesn't appear in reliable sources. Your little push to insert poorly cited negative material into the WP:BLP of a person you dislike is tendentious and well past disruptive at this point.--Cúchullain /c 15:08, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, no negative material ever exist on BLP subjects? And FYI, I don't dislike this person per se, it's her ethics I have the biggest disagreement with (and no I'm not a corporate IP rights activist, nor am I an MRA, just skeptic humanist). And lets be fucking clear here, I have not put Anita Sarkeesian to the public eye, I have not made an article about her in wikipedia. I'm just bloody gob-smacked how the reliable sources present her and how cowardly the media acts when they can't criticise her. But, yea, what ever brings a buck to them...Nosepea68 (talk) 06:14, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Somebody put it in with a source. I skewered it with Better Source Needed since N4G is considered unreliable according to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Video_games/Sources since it requires user-submitted content. Zero Serenity (talk) 16:05, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I removed it. Material like that needs a rock-solid source per BLP guidelines. Woodroar (talk) 16:28, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Nosepea68 Lest it be confused, your proposition above represents scandalmongering, and original research. When editors start going around creating stories, elevating minor events or drawing conclusions, it is detrimental to this project. I respectfully posit that maybe your dislike of this woman is clouding your judgment. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:04, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Tell me when the FUCK I created a story or stories? I haven't elevated this nor have I drew any conclusions. FFS, gee ee tea ay gee are eye pee.Nosepea68 (talk) 06:14, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

So I guess my "I respectfully posit" lead-in was not gentle enough? When did you create a story? See the beginning of your post. Taking nuggets of a budding scandal and trying to make something out of it before all the facts have been properly reported in reliable sources is the creation of a story, and it represents scandalmongering at its basest. Wikipedians aren't reporters. Though we do often deal with current events, it is not our job to "get the scoop" on the breaking news before all the facts are in, particularly when there could be libel issues as they relate to living people. For all you know, someone paid someone, and the money is being held up in trust and never made it to the complainant. Who knows what happened? But if you don't have the resources to play Jimmy Olsen and follow up on those leads, then you shouldn't be posing as a reporter. And if you *do* have those resources, you should be running a reliable source. As for your exasperated spelling challenge, I think you are walking a fine line between constructive input and incivility. If you're going to publicly criticize this person for whatever your admitted bias is, then you should be open to contrary criticism equivalent to the criticism you put out. And I have yet to use profanity toward you or waste your time with phonics, except for these: Double-u pee, colon, bee el pee. Seriously, the first few paragraphs negates most of what you are proposing. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:11, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

You made me chuckle to myself at myself. I am obviously explaining it wrong, good point made there. I admit I jumped on this subject with more enthusiasm (money in a joke) than common sense. But you know, people like that fall to homeopathy more than often. So I must have thought I'm a person above the medium intelligence. Yes, you're quite right! Only things told in a neutral publishment are neutral. How can I be that stupid to think that the author of one picture is just asking things she have started to ask when she found her art-work used in a commercial medium she didn't get a dime from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nosepea68 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

I have also read statements from a person who appears to be the original artist on a portion of the logo used. If so, this is worrisome and promotion of a logo with unattributed/uncompensated artwork is encouraging this sort of behavior? No axe to grind about the topic person in either direction, just a fan of giving credit and compensation where due

Here is what appears to be the original artist's statements on the subject http://cowkitty.net/post/78808973663/you-stole-my-artwork-an-open-letter-to-anita

thanks Sandy Foderick — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.140.96.130 (talk) 16:50, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

67.140.96.130, Look, it doesn't matter who said what unless it's been reported by reliable, published sources. If it ever is, we can talk about whether it's really worth mentioning or not; until then it's just general discussion and that's not what articles or their talk pages are for.--Cúchullain /c 17:19, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

With this BLP it seems only Sarkeesian managed Pravda is a reliable source. And isn't it encyclopedic to talk about person's ethics say like Stalin or Hitler. Nosepea68 (talk) 06:14, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

User:Cuchullain, Well, after reading http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Reliable_sources we see that the creator of the work (THE ORIGINAL ARTIST) is indeed a reliable source. According to guidelines, published refers to "made available to the public in some form". Considering the artist's tumblr blog is, in fact, public, it is published. Therefore, it's a reliable, published source. It should be added.

If that's not enough for you, I have tweets confirming talks between the original artist and FemFreq, as well as statements by her producer. I can also easy source 4 news articles from gameskinny, groupthink, and a avoiceformen (admittedly that one is pretty biased, obviously). The first two, are, in my opinion, sites that do fact-check/are reputable. These claims are /not/ contentious claims about others, as they talk about the action, and indirectly Anita.

Also, if this does happen to be taken into consideration, I feel it would contribute (perhaps not to Anita's personal article, but perhaps FemFreq's) as this is indeed a criticism/blemish on their image. If you go ahead and say that a personal page is not meant for this, I needn't direct you towards controversial actions committed by celebrities. These very actions have been inserted in said personal pages. Why not here? I feel the harrassment, and consequently the pro, (or people who are neutral towards her) Anita supporters are being overly protective of her "image" here. What I mean to say is that in the hopes that slander does not appear on the page, they are being "too against" placing any criticisms. This neccessarily isn't neutrality either.

Thus, I think the whole predicament deserves a mention. If not, at the very least, because of the condrodictory nature of the producer's tweet. See here: https://31.media.tumblr.com/10ab80fadf7c7e5361b63c58dfd4570b/tumblr_inline_n22zk7Rp6P1qas85b.jpg It's clear the "movement" is not non-for-profit.

Halcónico (talk) 05:48, 8 March 2014 (UTC)Halconico

Drama on the internet is not news. This is a private issue between the artist and Sarkeesian. It will be notable, when it is notable due to support from sources. This is all synthesis and original research. Koncorde (talk) 10:30, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree that it should be added. It has been addressed on the @FemFreq Twitter handle and as such, received an official response straight from the horse's mouth. Ging287 (talk) 19:02, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

If the only place it has been mentioned is Twitter and personal blogs... then no, it doesn't belong here. Verifiability is a core tenet of Misplaced Pages content, and unless there are reliable sources addressing the issue, we cannot include it. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:39, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Care to elaborate why http://en.wikipedia.org/Viktor_Yanukovych page has somewhat rich description of many issues that has nothing carved to stone like "reliably". I know the sample is very extreme but I can't understand different rules for different BLPs. And sorry, I really get wound up sometimes on this BLP because to me it seems that Sarkeesian is outside of criticism just because internet trolls harassed her. That should not be the case, especially on the matters she talks outside online harassment. Online harassment is a matter of it self, but turning a blind eye to ALL criticism because subject was harassed is not encyclopaedic (IMHO). To me it seems there's an infinite amount of white knights holding the line for Sarkeesian, just because she was harassed.Nosepea68 (talk) 20:04, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

As Halcónico said before, he/she has at least 4 sources, at least a few of which would pass WP:Verifiability. Why wouldn't this be added if we have the sources for it? Ging287 (talk) 19:50, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

None of the sources listed above meet WP:V. They are self-published sources without editorial control, which we cannot use unless the creator is a well-known and accepted expert in the field. Even there, there is a direct prohibition against using such sources in biographies: Never use self-published sources as third-party sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer. We do not republish accusations of illegal conduct that are presented only in personal blogs and tweets. If there is truly a significant legal issue here, it will be addressed in due time by external media. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 19:54, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

We don't know if they have editoral control or not until Halcónico posts them. I'm not sure how you can be making that judgement unless he/she's personally PMed them to you. Also, how would a news site covering the incident be a self published source? Ging287 (talk) 20:02, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

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