User talk:Hyacinth - Misplaced Pages

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Template:Attempting wikibreak Hello, you've reached User:Hyacinth, Mikhail Abraham.

Note: I currently do have reasonable access to computers (my computer is slowly failing).

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Speedy deletion nomination of Virus riddim

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A tag has been placed on Virus riddim requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a musical recording which does not indicate why its subject is important or significant, and where the artist's article has never existed, has been deleted or is eligible for deletion itself. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for music.

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Fifths

A one-octave C major scale.

File:C Major scale stacked with perfect-fifth intervals

The C major scale stacked with perfect fifths.

Dear Hyacinth,

Your upgraded NST diagram's arrows are a great idea. Such arrows would improve the diagrams in the other regular tunings, particularly all fourths and all fifths tunings....

Resolved 18:53, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

On another topic: Would you prepare a diagram of fifths stacked on the C major scale (consistent with your diagram for triad progressions)?

Do you know of any RS that begins with fifths on C major and then introduces the thirds? Especially one that discusses the triads satisfying constraints, e.g. that the notes should be natural (and the 7th degree's fifth should not agree with the C major chord's fifth, i.e., G, and so it is diminished). I am trying to understand how one would invent the displayed progression of triads....

Do you know of a RS that begins with the C-major scale and then states that other major scales use the same sequence of whole- and half-steps? (Or that a historical account, like a "history of Western music for composers, theorists, and other miserable sods"?)

FYI, I added some discussion of Fripp's disdain of thirds to the NST article, and brief comments about his use of fifths, octaves, and fourths for chords. Do you know of any discussions of building chords by stacking fifths? (Dr. Blofeld showed me this video of a discussion of jazz chords stacked in fourths; Bill Evans is famous for stacking fourths, I understand.)

As always, thanks for your help.

Best regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:40, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your contributions to quartal and quintal harmony, which is a serious and informative article, if not yet GA status. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Forget about the above request for stacked fifths as a png diagram. I can do a diagram in GNU Lilypond. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:11, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Alfie Fripp (RIP): DYK nomination

Robert Fripp's late Uncle, Alfie Fripp, was the longest serving and last surviving British POW of WWII. He helped the construction of the tunnel "Harry" portrayed in The Great Escape.

Please help improve the article Alfie Fripp before it appears on the main page.

Thanks! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:58, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Urlinie.PNG)

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WP:BRD

If your bold edit gets reverted, with explanation in edit summary, as at Missing fundamental, a better next step than an uncommented UNDO is to discuss to contribution and its reason for rejection, at the article talk page. Dicklyon (talk) 22:52, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Musicology problem

Something got mangled in Musicology, as the very first sentence will attest.

It looks like it was introduced here

A reader wrote in to note this oddity. I'm picking on you as the largest single contributor to the article.

I see it is already noted on the talk page.--SPhilbrick (Talk) 12:04, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

It looks like it is not just a Musicology problem, as it also appears elsewhere.

See Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(technical)#Rendered_text_not_matching_wikitext_.28water_is_never_pure....29--SPhilbrick (Talk) 12:15, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, they already fixed it. --82.83.89.164 (talk) 12:26, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Guitar chord

Today, I expanded the treatment of intermediate chords. I don't have time to clean up the notation and achieve consistency with other articles today, but you have been known to work miracles quickly.... :)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Computer-mediated reality

The article Computer-mediated reality has been proposed for deletion. The proposed deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

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You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. -- Trevj (talk) 08:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Please note that the PROD wasn't placed by me; I'm just notifying you because after a quick search I don't know whether it's valid or not. -- Trevj (talk) 08:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

I removed it. It didn't have a reason. The article seemed to have reliable sources. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:40, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Banjo roll

Dear Hyacynth: Thank you so much for your well-researched article about the banjo roll. I have been putting together a list of bluegrass related articles at User:Anne Delong/Bluegrass Topics because I noticed that many of them need a lot of work. Over half of the ones I found have no references at all! I'm afraid that someone will delete them. Yours, however, is great. It's never been rated, though. I think that's because we don't have a Wikiproject for bluegrass music. If I can get organized enough, I might start one. —Anne Delong (talk) 08:41, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

File:Ten octaves visualization.png

It goes to 2, not 2. And shouldn't the top right box have the dotted line where the preceding box was doubled? PrimeHunter (talk) 14:09, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Passive voice listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Misplaced Pages:Passive voice. Since you had some involvement with the Misplaced Pages:Passive voice redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Ego White Tray (talk) 13:47, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

SVG of the sheet music

First of all, thank you for making those amazing sheet musics like the ones on A Hard Day's Night (song). However, as Wikimedia Commons pointed out here, those sheet musics should better be in SVG format. As the information on the file pages shows, you were using Sibelius 5 to make these pictures. If the software supports outputting SVG, PS (PostScript), or EPS (Encapsulated PostScript), please use these vector images and convert them to SVG (if needed). If the software does not support them, then you can try Lilypond. I am currently trying to convert the PNGs to SVGs as many as I can, but please, if you are making any more sheet musics, upload them as SVG. Timothy G. (talk) 20:05, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

It looks like one may export images from Sibelius as EPS files. How would I convert it to SVG? Hyacinth (talk) 23:00, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

You can use the online tool misc2svg. It's a German site, but you don't need to read German to use the tool :) (the number on the site is page number). Timothy G. (talk) 02:49, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

And, upload other SVGs if you can for "images composed of simple shapes, lines, and letters" like File:Ten octaves visualization.png (see here). You can use Inkscape (warning: hard to learn) and Adobe Illustrator (warning: harder to learn, and requires $$$) to create SVGs. Timothy G. (talk) 02:56, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi, again. Thank you for uploading File:15-tet diatonic scale on C.svg to Wikimedia Commons. Please remember to crop the borders of the file (using SVG editing software or directly using Sibelius if it has an option) before uploading, and you do not need to upload the PNG version. Thank you. Timothy G. (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:12, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

File:15-tet diatonic scale on C.png --> File:15-tet diatonic scale on C.svg

File:Dual-third triad diamond.png --> File:Dual-third triad diamond.svg

Hyacinth (talk) 03:42, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Low quality SVG

Hello. When you upload SVGs, please crop the margins. For example: old -> new. Timothy G. (talk) 19:12, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Dual-third triad diamond.svg doesn't display at all. Hyacinth (talk) 10:10, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Dual-third triad diamond.svg

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Disambiguation link notification for March 14

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Native American merge

The music merge discussion on the category was to merge "American Indian music" into "Native American music," not the other way around. Montanabw 20:58, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Came here to point this out. I don't believe anyone wanted "Native American music" to redirect to "American Indian music." -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi

By "everyone" we are talking about four people. Hyacinth (talk) 21:30, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

So, do you all want me to do something or are you just being informative? Hyacinth (talk) 10:29, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Stop changing categories from Native American to American Indian, you messed up a bunch of them. ;-) Montanabw 00:37, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Does a winky smile mean please? Or is it the same as a reason? Hyacinth (talk) 15:23, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

It means that you need to not do what you are being asked to not do, but I'm asking in a nice way. As it appears that you have done so, thank you. Montanabw 19:44, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

It turns out our original message was neither a question nor informative.

Since no one could hear your tone of voice, there's no way anyone would know if what you said was nice or rude. Conventionally demands without please and thank you are considered rude.

Moving is not messing up.

However, I'll give you some credit since your from a backwoods state. Hyacinth (talk) 22:54, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, I'm done talking to you. Your last comment was quite rude. You have no interest in engaging in good faith conversation, it appears. I have better things to do with my time than argue with trolls. Montanabw 17:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Hyacinth is not a troll, but he writes epigrammatically and sometimes with top spin.

Consider: Not everybody likes mole poblano or chile masala, and those that do probably acquired their taste. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:50, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

One "mistake" does not a troll make. Just cause I don't have "Montana" in my name doesn't mean I don't live there. Hyacinth (talk) 21:20, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Less "nots", you two, please! ;)

And more knots, please. :)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:54, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I did not begin this by stating that Hyacinth was from a "backwoods state" and insulting his or her intelligence. All I asked was that s/he cease changing a bunch of categories when the category move request was specifically NOT to. And I was trying to be nice about it. I did not expect rudeness, disrespect, or whatever "epigrammatically and sometimes with top spin" is. Montanabw 23:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

If you're done talking to me please message Kiefer on Kiefer's talk page. I find it strange that I knew more about you before you wrote to me than you still know about me. Hyacinth (talk) 00:29, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Your second statement is an odd comment, and I also don't really care what you think you know, though WP:OUTING may apply if you are making a threat of some sort. Kiefer weighted in here, so I replied here. If this conversation is over from your end, it's over from mine. Kiefer can comment where he pleases and I shall reply to him as appropriate; should you ask us both to take conversation elsewhere, I will respect that. Otherwise, my standard policy is to reply on the page where the comment occurs, absent some more compelling rationale. Montanabw 16:28, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

It's like cigarettes, everyone says they are going to quit, but... Hyacinth (talk) 21:25, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

All your great work on the knotting articles

Hello Hyacinth: Thank you for your recent and ongoing work on many of the knot articles! I haven't been doing as much on the topic as I did a few years ago. Many of the cleanups you've been taking care of were things I'd intended to do but never found the time, energy, etc. (Thus fulfilling the promise of WP...) So far it looks like you're doing great work. If you have any questions or would like a second opinion on something, feel free to drop me a note. All the best, --Dfred (talk) 14:35, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

great work!

This is a nice set of notes:

Dominic Welsh. Complexity: Knots, Colourings and Counting (LMS Lecture Notes, vol. 186, Oxford University Press, 1993, ISBN 0-521-45740-8, MR 1245272)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:56, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Hyacinth (talk) 23:06, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 31

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Semiotics of Billy Bragg

Young Billy Bragg wore your symbols for tritone intervals and augmented triads in the chromatic circle. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 06:19, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

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File:Monteverdi Lamento d'Arianna dominant seventh.png missing description details

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Unicursal hexagram

I really don't know what a unicursal hexagram has in common with a closed-loop composite granny knot or square knot. If the unicursal hexagram is interlaced, it's a prime (non-composite) knot equivalent to the simplest form of the "Endless knot" (7_4). If a unicursal hexagram is not interlaced, then it has nothing to do with knot theory at all. AnonMoos (talk) 14:14, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Good thing I didn't link to "knot theory" or categorize "Unicursal hexagram" in Category:Knot theory. Hyacinth (talk) 16:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Granny knot as unicursal hexagram.png

That's interesting, but is it something actually used by occultists, or something you just made up? Not sure why File:Fano_plane_Hasse_diagram.svg and File:Granny_knot_as_unicursal_hexagram.png are on the article, but File:Interwoven unicursal hexagram.svg isn't, when File:Interwoven unicursal hexagram.svg would appear to have a lot more to do with the occult symbol as used by occultists (which is what the article is mainly supposed to be about). AnonMoos (talk) 17:28, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

See: Commons:Category:Unicursal hexagram. Hyacinth (talk) 17:58, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I looked at that category, and the image which you just uploaded is the only one which unequivocally implies a "false crossing" (no crossing at all, leading to 6 overall crossings not 7) in the center... AnonMoos (talk) 00:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

What does a "false crossing" have to do with File:Fano_plane_Hasse_diagram.svg or File:Interwoven unicursal hexagram.svg? Hyacinth (talk) 01:41, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

First off, I don't know what File:Fano_plane_Hasse_diagram.svg has to do with anything. But if you look at the basic diagram File:Solid_unicursal_hexagram.svg, it looks like there are seven places where lines cross each other. However, in File:Granny knot as unicursal hexagram.png, you've sneakily rejiggered the configuration so that there are only six true line crossings. It's rather clever in its way, but I'm not entirely sure whether it has much relevance to the commonly-used meaning of "unicursal hexagram"... AnonMoos (talk) 03:35, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Non-Western music listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Non-Western music. Since you had some involvement with the Non-Western music redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 22:38, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

What don't you like

Further information: Commons:User_talk:AnonMoos § Why_I_do_things

I'm sure that a distinct majority of your edits contribute to overall improvement, but you keep things constantly churning so that it's not too easy to keep track of the effects of your edits on images that I've uploaded, or articles I have on my watchlist. And when issues do sometimes arise, you don't seem to be too quick to explain yourself (so I still have no idea if the false crossing image File:Granny knot as unicursal hexagram.png is based on something which previously existed, or is something that you invented from scratch). By the way, while image "overcategorizations" are generally a bad thing on Wikimedia Commons, in particular cases they may be an indication of problems in superordinate categories (as with interlaced and non-interlaced triquetras), so that it would be good to keep this possibility in mind. AnonMoos (talk) 05:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Something to show you

I have produced 2 short pieces, a study in 7 tone equal temperament and a "cool jazz" type tune in 5 equal temperament. I would love for you to hear them as they are only possible because of your initial influence. I know the phrasing on the 5-edo song is a bit awkward, but I may try to improve it later. Any feedback would be priceless. Thank you.

http://solandra.wikispaces.com/file/view/7thumar21.mid/424742126/7thumar21.mid http://solandra.wikispaces.com/file/view/5edo-cool-01.mid/424742090/5edo-cool-01.mid

I used the standard Timidity++ soundfont to compose and the files are CC-BY-SA 3.0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Senobyte (talk • contribs) 21:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Gender-neutral language

Please go to Misplaced Pages talk:Gender-neutral language. It looks like some Wikipedians support gender-generic he. Please reveal your thoughts on that talk page. (Also, please note that User:Ihardlythinkso is an un-civil Wikipedian who pretends to be civil.) Georgia guy (talk) 13:22, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Go to Antichess (as well as any other article that you can find use of generic he in) and please try to re-word the phrases whatever way you can. Georgia guy (talk) 16:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Adele Someone Like You appoggiatura.mid)

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Tertian harmonization

I'm sure you could improve this! :)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:49, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Failed verification on Slavik V. Jablan

First off, you added the tag in the wrong place. Secondly, the middle link in image "bor8.jpg" on page http://www.mi.sanu.ac.rs/vismath/bor/bor4.htm is obviously the same as the depiction of L10a140 derived from the Knot Atlas "Morse Link Presentation" (with trivial differences of rotation and orientation). I think we're allowed to connect the dots to this minimal degree; if we're not, then the problem becomes a taint of original synthesis, not "failed verification"... AnonMoos (talk) 01:28, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Generic template you left on my user talk page

You didn't include any specific information, so I don't know what action of mine you're objecting to. Since the big orange box has been replaced with the the little red speck in the past few days, I may not be as quick to notice comments left on my user talk page... AnonMoos (talk) 02:41, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion on Ashkenazi Jews talk page - should Sholem Aleichem be in the collage

Hi :-) Due to the fact I saw you interested in the topic, I thought you might want to take part in it.

There is a discussion on the Talk:Ashkenazi Jews regarding should Sholem Aleichem and Mikhail Botvinnik be in the collage or not. The discussion is called "Ones and for all, should Sholem Aleichem and Mikhail Botvinnik be in the collage".

Please take part in the vote and state your opinion on the topic. Thank you! 90.196.60.197 (talk) 15:52, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Fully amphichiral knot

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Knot number categories

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Categorizing scale degrees

I see you categorized scale degrees. One thing I don't like is that you categorized the Mixolydian mode's subtonic as 7 and the leading tone as 7.5. This is perceived by my mind as meaning that you think the subtonic (B♭) is the real 7th degree and that the leading tone (B) is an extra degree and can be called 7.5. Any questions?? Georgia guy (talk) 13:03, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Do you have any questions? Are you asking me to do something? Are you trying to tell me about something you yourself did? Hyacinth (talk) 23:42, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Error in score

The score you recently added to the article Dominant (music) has an error: File:Dominant modulation Haydn Symphony in C Major No. 97.png. The top note in the second chord of the second full measure should be A, not G. There also have been considerable liberties taken in revoicing the orchestral texture to make it suitable for piano, including adding notes which aren't in the original, and turning the appoggiaturas into eighth notes. Did you make this reduction yourself? —Wahoofive (talk) 16:53, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

By "there...have been liberties taken" are you trying to say, "it's a piano reduction"? Hyacinth (talk) 23:58, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Not entirely. For example, on the third beat of the third full measure, there is no G in original chord -- only C's and E's (with appoggiatura). More significantly, the tied D in bar 6, making the second beat supposedly a seventh chord, is not present in the orchestral score. And the harmonic analysis is perhaps OR? Different analysts might pinpoint the modulation as happening earlier, although this is indeed an excellent example of modulation to the dominant. —Wahoofive (talk) 15:20, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I've changed the image based on two IMSLP scores (full and piano solo) and added harmonic analysis for both keys for the entire length. Hyacinth (talk) 15:39, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the edits. I'm thinking that the new analysis obscures the point, though. Definitely the pieces is in C at the start and in G at the end, even if we're not totally sure (and Haydn purposely obscured) where the change takes place. —Wahoofive (talk) 00:00, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Transfer to Commons

Hello Hyacinth, I'm writing an article on the Greek WP about historically informed performance and I should like to use some files you seem to have uploaded. Unfortunately, useful and excellent as they are, they have not been transferred into Commons. I'm afraid I am not too familiar with the procedure, so would it be too much trouble for you to have a look into it? The files in question are these:

{\displaystyle {}_{4}^{6}} — Comparison of tunings: I IV ${}_{4}^{6}$ V I. Play just, Play Pythagorean, Play meantone (quarter-comma), Play well temperament (Werckmeister), and Play equal temperament

Thanks a million! --Chrysalifourfour (talk) 14:18, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

My first answer is see Misplaced Pages:Moving files to the Commons#How to transfer files to Commons (and Help:Transwiki). Hyacinth (talk) 01:19, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, had I known how to do it I wouldn't have bothered you in the first place. Thanks for your time anyway, I guess I'll wait for the bot transfer sometime in the future. --Chrysalifourfour (talk) 12:26, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

My goal is to try to do a transfer in the very near future. It seems to be one of those things on Misplaced Pages that may be done through one of an endless stream of complicated options. If I do complete one of those options I'll tell you how it went. Hyacinth (talk) 18:06, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

You can transfer files manually, though that can get tedious if there are many versions. Hyacinth (talk) 17:48, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

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Augmented sixth chord

Greetings. In Augmented sixth chord you find: F♯-A♭-C is a doubly diminished triad. Note that it is enharmonically equivalent to G♭-A♭-C (incomplete dominant seventh or "backdoor" dominant-seventh substitute vii). You have contributed the incomplete dominant seventh part. Do you mean that chord is the dominant 7th on A♭ (A♭-C-E♭-G♭) in 3rd inversion (G♭-A♭-C-E♭) and missing its top tone (E♭)? If yes, then whoever added that it is a "backdoor" dominant-seventh substitute vii got it wrong it seems to me. Obviously it is no diminished (5th) chord. Contact Basemetal here 21:48, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 28

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Photo requests

Hello, Mikhail. When you want to request a photo for a music-related topic, please use {{Image requested|music topics}} rather than {{Image requested|music}}. This will put your request in the correct category and make it more visible to other editors. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 10:37, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

"Hard shuffle"

Hi Hyacinth, could you please take a look at my new image of "hard shuffle" (dotted eighth + sixteenth) which I based on one of your initial images from 2008? Although I tried not to make any mistake, I'm not 100% familiar with music notation, so maybe something has been missed, or misplaced, e.g. these dots? If the image were ok however, it might replace successfully the current figure of "dotted eighth shuffle" in Swing (jazz performance style). With best regards --Qniemiec (talk) 22:34, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox single

Hey Hyacinth. I was just wondering why you added a "video director" field to Template:Infobox single? I fail to see a discussion about its addition to the infobox. Thanks. — Statυs (talk, contribs) 19:10, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

You should check again. I have never edited Template:Infobox album. Hyacinth (talk) 19:44, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

My bad, I meant Template:Infobox single. Corrected. — Statυs (talk, contribs) 20:34, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

It does not appear to be a "substantial change". The field is of value and relevant to most of the articles the template appears on and thus not likely to be empty. Are you just curious, or are you complaining? Hyacinth (talk) 20:48, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Can you explain to me what exactly a "V. director" is? I thought that I could just have a nice, civil conversation about this, but apparently that is not the case, as seen by your attitude thus far. Just because you have the power to change something does not mean you can do so without consensus. Adding a completely new field is quite a "substantial change" to a template; whereas correcting a spelling mistake, for example, is not. I guess I'll be going elsewhere with this. — Statυs (talk, contribs) 21:01, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

How have I been uncivil? Hyacinth (talk) 21:07, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Video director

Having left a blunt message at Template talk:Infobox single, I see there is already a discussion. Consensus or not, the correct syntax in field data14 should be {{#ifexist:{{{Director|}}}|]|}}. Please change immediately. Thank you.--Laun chba ller 22:53, 6 July 2013 (UTC)